depression

[kakapo]

[Guest iamabe]

I would also like to give my two useless pence and say that, for me at least, citalopram was far less effective for depression than the lovely orgasms it prevented me from achieving.

 

I just began taking citalopram. how many weeks before I can't cum?

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

yeah having been diagnosed with clinical depression in my late teens i can say this is basically a lot of bullshit. there's a huge difference between a blue mood and just staring at a wall not wanting to do anything for weeks on end, constantly analyzing everything in a negative way and falling into the self deception and thought patterns typical of depression. you can break up with someone and be depressed, but you can also be in a relationship and be depressed. when you're really clinically depressed you just turn into an analytical shell of a human being, basically. and it's insane to think you could be more productive when you're depressed. that's just a sort of flimsy new age idea that depression isn't that serious, or is just some kind of light mood disorder that makes you more thoughtful and brooding.

 

my life fucking story

 

that was actually well worded

[lumpenprol]

All I know is that I was drinking a couple big bottles of jack daniels a day. Not eating Lost 25 pounds. Could hardly sleep. I was in a deep depression last winter and I wanted to die. I took pristiq and clonopin for a few months and it lifted me out of the depression. It really worked, So fuck these conspiracy theorist assholes. They are getting in the way of people getting help. If something isn't working try something else. If you can't pay get samples. No amount of eating organic or taking nature walks was going to help. I tried all that.

 

 

 

there are far more effective treatments for mild depression

 

I'm not saying that anti-depressants are useless

 

 

but again it seems you are somewhat contradicting yourself, if you're saying antidepressants have a mild to potentially placebo-like level of efficacy, how could they treat major depression?

 

I'll also just add that the one point you raised, about antidepressants being applied to other mental conditions like OCD, doesn't indicate that they are somehow mis-targeted, or, say, a "shotgun approach to something that requires a laser", but rather that all these conditions are somehow linked up with the functions that norepinephrin, seratonin, and dopamine perform in the brain. OCD and depression can both be affected by the same drug because they are related conditions on some level.

 

All major studies I've read, and the consensus from therapists I've talked to, is that the best treatment for depression is therapy + medication, not medication alone or therapy alone.

[lumpenprol]

I would also like to give my two useless pence and say that, for me at least, citalopram was far less effective for depression than the lovely orgasms it prevented me from achieving.

 

I actually think there's a ton of truth to this. Problem is when I was clinically depressed I was so mental that no girl would have touched me. But even in my worst moments I would tell my therapist "I think I just need lots of sex."

 

And voila, fast forward ten years and with the aid of endless amounts of pussy I am now therapy and medication free. I really think for many depressed men, that if they were to take the $100 bucks they would give to a therapist per session, and give it to a Chinese hooker instead, they'd probably be better off - she'd listen to your problems and give you head.

 

I think the body has a way of working most things out using its natural mechanisms, the problem is when you get so far off track that the body stops sending normal signals. That's when a "bump" like medication has its uses. Of course for some the body never regains its natural equilibrium so medication has to become a lifelong thing.

[Guest Iain C]

I would also like to give my two useless pence and say that, for me at least, citalopram was far less effective for depression than the lovely orgasms it prevented me from achieving.

 

I just began taking citalopram. how many weeks before I can't cum?

 

I can't perfectly remember now because it was 5 or 6 years ago (which makes me feel really old) but not too long, a couple of weeks at the most... I had other minor side-effects as well, like a problem with constant tooth-grinding. I don't think that one was even on the list, but it definitely happened to me.

 

As an addendum, I found that I could cum eventually, it just took a LOT of time and constant effort and even then it was a weak experience. Not worth the chafing and exhaustion.

[kakapo]

 

 

but again it seems you are somewhat contradicting yourself, if you're saying antidepressants have a mild to potentially placebo-like level of efficacy, how could they treat major depression?

 

 

Lady kaka is away for a long weekend, so I'll also answer on her behalf.

 

No, I'm not contradicting myself. There is a difference between presenting an argument and endorsing one.

 

But it is the actual 'anti-depressant' effect that some people feel is a placebo effect, rather than the effects taken as a whole.

 

Having said that, one of the features of depression is its 'negative feedback' nature, where cause becomes effect, and effect becomes cause. A simplistic example would be 'bad thing happens'-> lack of sleep of through worry-> mild non clinical depression -> clinical depression i.e. a depression lasting greater than two weeks -> sleep disturbance -> worsening of depression due to both physiological and psychological effects of lack of sleep. Put even more simply, 'depression can lead to sleep disturbance, lack of sleep can worsen depression.'

 

Often a simple intervention can have a profound effect on this 'negative feedback' aspect of depresson. (CBT is (sort of) based on the principle of breaking the cycle of negative thoughts.) For some depressives, even the simple acknowledgment by a doctor that they have an illness, that this condition can and will be treated, and that this treatment will contain an element of routine (come back and see me once a month and heres a prescription for 10 weekly CBT sessions) can have a significant and positive effect.

 

So actually, it's plausible that even if the efficacy of an anti-depressant was in some way limited, it could have a disproportionate and positive effect in the treatment of 'mild depression', 'mild clinical depression' 'major clinical depression'...

 

 

I'll also just add that the one point you raised, about antidepressants being applied to other mental conditions like OCD, doesn't indicate that they are somehow mis-targeted, or, say, a "shotgun approach to something that requires a laser", but rather that all these conditions are somehow linked up with the functions that norepinephrin, seratonin, and dopamine perform in the brain. OCD and depression can both be affected by the same drug because they are related conditions on some level.

 

Entirely plausible. But again, this doesn't necessarily mean that an anti-depressants effectiveness as an antidperessant can't largely be due to a placebo effect.

 

 

All major studies I've read, and the consensus from therapists I've talked to, is that the best treatment for depression is therapy + medication, not medication alone or therapy alone.

 

Yes. But...

 

Over the past twenty years treatment of depression in the UK has oscillated from 'pull yourself together' to 'here's a prescription for some powerful psychoative chemicals, now you're on your own'. We're gradually moving towards a more balanced theory of treatment, with a shift in emphasis away from anti-depressants towards CBT and other therapies. Bear in mind I'm writing from a UK perspective.

 

To avoid more confusion, I will attempt to sum up my position.

 

- Some people believe that the anti-depressant effect of some anti-depressants such as fluoxetine is a placebo effect. I believe that this may be at least partially true.

 

- We do not have a complete theory or understanding of depression, nor do we have all the answers regarding treatment. It's not that long ago we were lobotomising people with mood disorders (see Rosemary Kennedy comment).

But we're probably moving in the right direction.

 

- In the UK, some people with mild depression have been prescribed psychoactive drugs when other treatment options would have been more effective.

 

The latest guidance for doctors from the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) says the side-effects may outweigh the benefits in cases of mild depression and patients are likely to do better with regular exercise (at least 45 minutes three times a week), reading self-help books and following online programmes, or having some form of talking therapy, such as counselling.

 

But if you have more severe symptoms, your doctor's likely to suggest you try an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor), the most commonly prescribed antidepressants.

 

- Pharamaceutical companies have a vested interest in creating as large a market as possible for their products, and as private companies are primarily concerned with profit (how this makes me a, "conspiracy theorist asshole", I'm not sure)

 

- Depression is a bespoke illness. Everyone is different.

 

- In some instances anti-depressants are an entirely appropriate treatment.

 

I might come back to this, but I'll leave it for the moment.

[Guest abusivegeorge]

I take Amitriptyline

 

They make me horny like a mother fucker, I could cum and re-fuck all day long.

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

i'd just like to tom CRUISSSE in here and say: I KNOW ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PSYCHOLOGY

 

you're GLIB!

[Guest abusivegeorge]

Is you friend dead? Did he die? Did you kill him? Tell me you killed him and I can start loving you in the way I love the rest of watmm.

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

Is you friend dead? Did he die? Did you kill him? Tell me you killed him and I can start loving you in the way I love the rest of watmm.

 

Maja? no she just doesn't give a shit about this place. and she hates my guts, she actually wants me to drop dead. but trust me, i doubt she'll ever be back here

[Guest abusivegeorge]

Is you friend dead? Did he die? Did you kill him? Tell me you killed him and I can start loving you in the way I love the rest of watmm.

 

Maja? no she just doesn't give a shit about this place. and she hates my guts, she actually wants me to drop dead. but trust me, i doubt she'll ever be back here

 

Oh wow thats pretty kool, so does this mean you hate her? If so, welcome to the watmm love club.

 

<3

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

oh yea. i certainly wasn't her dupe or anything, but when i was her friend i was kind of under this spell. which made me think i hated this place and all of you. but of course i don't, i quite enjoy you folk, something she never really tried doing. i'm thinking much clearer now

 

<3 to you, mate!

[Guest abusivegeorge]

Lol, yeah I came on like two weeks ago and you were a totally different person, women can have that affect, it's most likely that you were phased by her because your motives were more personal, perhaps you wanted something more than friendship from her? I usually find this is the case with me, and I turn into following the girl around with my head up her arse.

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

i basically acted like a dick to you guys because i thought she'd like me more. it worked, but i always felt bad

[Guest abusivegeorge]

And now she hates you, I have a tip for these situations. Take a stumble down queer street and see how you fair. I've never done it, far too freightened and probably not gay, but it's only so long before I start taking LUDDS advice.

[Guest Calx Sherbet]

lol, i'm not light in the loafers