Where do you find meaning in life?

[Captain James Mission]

Qui vivre verra

[Guest A/D]

I've read quite a lot of books about neuroscience (Oliver Sacks and that sort of thing) where there are actually case studies of people who have had brain injuries whereby people lose their ability to form new memories or access any old memories except procedural ones. They are reduced, essentially, to this eternal instant of NOW.

 

Yet the descriptions report that these people do not find this a wonderful, blissful state, they actually find it highly confusing and often terrifying.

 

So I guess my attitude towards people trying to attain that state of spiritual Enlightenment is that it is actually the *path* that is important. Many things that many religions reccomend - meditation, self reflection, not being overly distracted by materialism for the sake of materialism, good works, etc. etc. - as the way to enlightenment or heaven or whatever the goal - they are Good Things that are worth doing because of the inherent worth of doing them. Rather than this philosophical carrot of enlightenment or nirvana or heaven or whatever it is you are promised at the end.

 

I don't think these things are in conflict! Enlightenment is not a state, it is a path. An enlightened teacher once said, "Once you are enlightened, the real work can begin." Heaven and Hell are here on Earth, and when you act well, you can exist in Heaven, even in the worst circumstances.

 

The injuries you cited only reinforce this . . every moment is a chance for every one of us to experience peace and enlightenment. Some situations force the choice more than others, but ultimately, it doesn't depend at all on outside events. Our brains are only tools. It's not what we perceive but how we perceive it.

[Guest Rambo]

Again, enlightenment/oneness isn't a thing that you attain and it has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. It isn't a fluffy blissful state and isn't the pinnacle of spiritual achievement. If there is such thing as ghosts, out of body experiences, 7th dan spiritual Voodoo masters, healers, whatever else, they are just part of the dream just like all other 'things' and 'ideas'. Anything you can name and understand is in the dream.

 

When the illusion of seperation falls away, the person doesn't become like a 2 year old child either. I was talking about that to describe how i (and others) think the mind creates and develops the experience of being a seperate entity. This isn't floaty philosophy designed for pretentious people who love the moon, this is literal and in a sense it's completely brutal because it's about the death of who you think you are.

[Atop]

IAO

[SR4]

Again, enlightenment/oneness isn't a thing that you attain and it has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality. It isn't a fluffy blissful state and isn't the pinnacle of spiritual achievement. If there is such thing as ghosts, out of body experiences, 7th dan spiritual Voodoo masters, healers, whatever else, they are just part of the dream just like all other 'things' and 'ideas'. Anything you can name and understand is in the dream.

 

When the illusion of seperation falls away, the person doesn't become like a 2 year old child either. I was talking about that to describe how i (and others) think the mind creates and develops the experience of being a seperate entity. This isn't floaty philosophy designed for pretentious people who love the moon, this is literal and in a sense it's completely brutal because it's about the death of who you think you are.

 

yes! i don't get why this concept reduces one to an "infant"....that is drastically oversimplifying everything, and i mean simple as in the "easy" simple.

[Guest Z_B_Z]

 

 

When the illusion of seperation falls away, the person doesn't become like a 2 year old child either. I was talking about that to describe how i (and others) think the mind creates and develops the experience of being a seperate entity. This isn't floaty philosophy designed for pretentious people who love the moon, this is literal and in a sense it's completely brutal because it's about the death of who you think you are.

 

true but no matter how mindblowing and humbling these revelations may be, the ego will return. it might be changed, but permanent ego loss is an impossibility. but i do think its important to recognize the ego for what it is..

 

“Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable.” - Terence McKenna

[karmakramer]

So basically look at the world through the eyes of a visitor, someone not familiar with our lifestyle, someone who is not one of the rest... then live your life, not to become apart of this lifestyle, but to continue to understand through the eyes of a visitor, to be an observer who understands but is inherently different to the point that conformism will only lead to a loss of ones self. then through this state, you will bring change externally among your environment, adapting it to your self. it is when you adapt to the environment do you lose your internal self, which is what binds us to our perspective of oneness.

 

Cause if you cannot be yourself and live in peace, you can never be one with the world.

[Guest Z_B_Z]

but by adapting that view youre automatically placing yourself apart from (and possibly above) everyone else. and by disassociating you block any true connection to anyone else. connecting to others is the true meaning of life, and ultimately a path to the realization of the interconnectedness of all living things.

 

i love the moon.

[Guest Rambo]

 

 

When the illusion of seperation falls away, the person doesn't become like a 2 year old child either. I was talking about that to describe how i (and others) think the mind creates and develops the experience of being a seperate entity. This isn't floaty philosophy designed for pretentious people who love the moon, this is literal and in a sense it's completely brutal because it's about the death of who you think you are.

 

true but no matter how mindblowing and humbling these revelations may be, the ego will return. it might be changed, but permanent ego loss is an impossibility. but i do think its important to recognize the ego for what it is..

 

“Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable.” - Terence McKenna

 

The ego is totally irrelevant really, it's just another thing that arises. That's it. You are not your ego.

 

Im curious if you could define even better what the ego is though

[karmakramer]

but by adapting that view youre automatically placing yourself apart from (and possibly above) everyone else. and by disassociating you block any true connection to anyone else. connecting to others is the true meaning of life, and ultimately a path to the realization of the interconnectedness of all living things.

 

i love the moon.

 

I think thats just trap, you'll find the people you most connect with, it just might take some time

[Guest Z_B_Z]

of course its not irrelevant because youre using your ego right now. i wouldnt say that im not my ego, but i know that im more than my ego.

 

@rambo

 

by ego i mean all the memories, defenses and cultural baggage that makes you 'you'.

[Guest Rambo]

It's irrelevant because no-one is trying to kill their ego. Enlightenment isn't about killing the ego.

[Guest Z_B_Z]

perhaps not killing, but getting past it is essential to the state we're talking about, no?

[Guest Rambo]

Nothing needs to happen other than entertaining the possibility that there might only be oneness. It's not a special achievers thing. Oneness really couldn't care less about how good or bad a person thinks they are. All that stuff starts and ends in the brain. This has happened to people who have had absolutely no interest in this subject whatsoever. Someone ate a poisoned sweet and then there was just oneness when 'they' woke up. Although i should say that it isn't something that happens to a person in a way. The illusion falls away, then there just is what there always is.

[SR4]

its not about getting past anything...

[Guest Z_B_Z]

i think we're saying the same thing in different ways

 

also, this "getting past" doesnt in any way have to be a conscious process.

[SR4]

i guess the way i would explain it is that when and even "if" attaining enlightenment is even possible, I doubt you'd turn into Neo at the end of the Matrix. There is no "great truth", just clarity.

 

I don't even know if such a thing can be attainable, or whether it even matters. I think someone mentioned its about the path, which I agree with to some extent.

[karmakramer]

You can reach a level of enlightenment akin to "Neo," but only through a deeper understanding that you will never actually get to physically experience it in this lifetime. It must all happen from within the mind. If you can accept this state as a reality, then the feeling would be the same

[SR4]

what I am saying is a lot of people consider enlightenment as if the person subject to it is somehow on a different level, but that's all conceptual as we experience it now...it's almost like people "wanting" or desiring to be enlightened, therefore the idea or ideal is shaped out of all the other subjectivity through which we view and classify our daily lives and activities.

 

i dont think i am making sense.

 

anyway, im summation, Buddhism and Taoism are cool. end.

[Guest Rambo]

i guess the way i would explain it is that when and even "if" attaining enlightenment is even possible, I doubt you'd turn into Neo at the end of the Matrix. There is no "great truth", just clarity.

 

I don't even know if such a thing can be attainable, or whether it even matters. I think someone mentioned its about the path, which I agree with to some extent.

 

 

Not even the path, just life. That's it. You nailed it pages back! There's no path to enlightenment because it's everywhere! As soon as you make a movement towards it you are saying "this isn't it." The very fact of making a movement towards oneness is a denial of the fact it's everything.

 

And remember an illusion is just that, an illusion. So enlightenment is the death of something that wasn't even happening and that's a mothertrucking fact.

[Guest Rambo]

ps. gonna have to disagree with karmakramer but that doesn't mean we cant date

[Guest Great Maker ShaiHulud]

I find the meaning of life in David Gilmour's guitar work on Comfortably Numb from the Pulse live album.

[karmakramer]

last night I had an experience of enlightenment, I was basically observing my own self through different eyes to the point that I was able to appreciate and fascinate myself with some of the most common daily things

[Guest Rambo]

me too

[Guest Z_B_Z]

i think when most people say 'enlightenment' they really mean 'peace'. ie relief from the suffering and banality that daily existence can bring. i think, as rambo hinted at a page back, truly realizing the exact nature of things could be a very scary thing (anyone had a bad mushroom trip?) but thats cool... go to your yoga class and everything and get your peace. nothing wrong with that.

 

im starting to sound condescending so i think ive said enough about this vague subject