us / canada border control

[oscillik]

These border guys are obviously trigger happy, why would you go out of your way to be reactionary and provoking? I don't know, maybe in Canada that is acceptable conversation with Cops.. but these days in the States, any figure of authority is ready to taser you at the drop of a dime.

and here is the problem - the police are supposed to serve you, not the other way around.

[Guest blicero]

To the people saying that border guards are there to serve us... well, if you mean that US border guards are meant to serve US citizens, then you are right. US border guards are not there to serve non-US citizens. so in this case, that concept doesn't mean shit.

 

also, while the way hey go about it is shitty, anytime you fly internationally, you have to fill out a customs declaration form which usual requires the address of where you are staying (i.e. hotel). So, this isn't very different, it just seems unnecessary for a day trip.

 

i'm not defending these guys, because the way they go about this shit is a fucking joke, but they are following a similar routine. they're just doing so with a shitty attitude and a tendency to abuse authority.

[oscillik]

To the people saying that border guards are there to serve us... well, if you mean that US border guards are meant to serve US citizens, then you are right. US border guards are not there to serve non-US citizens. so in this case, that concept doesn't mean shit.

 

also, while the way hey go about it is shitty, anytime you fly internationally, you have to fill out a customs declaration form which usual requires the address of where you are staying (i.e. hotel). So, this isn't very different, it just seems unnecessary for a day trip.

 

i'm not defending these guys, because the way they go about this shit is a fucking joke, but they are following a similar routine. they're just doing so with a shitty attitude and a tendency to abuse authority.

you are defending them

[Guest ZeroHour]

lol @ anyone who thinks that the border guards didnt do anything wrong

[Guest vodor]

i cross the US/Can border every week. i'm an american. some points:

 

- it's true that you have no rights at the border. they can dismantle your car to search it and then leave it. they can search everything that you have as extensively as they like, including your laptop's hard drive. they can remove the hard drive and keep it, copy it, whatever it until they're satisfied.

 

- the officers are not there to serve you. they're there to serve everyone who stays in their own countries and don't cause any trouble. if you're crossing the border, you're either smuggling shit (illegal shit or taxable shit) or are going to stay and work illegally or are a terrorist. it's up to you to prove otherwise. this usually just entails answering their simple questions plainly and respectfully, and occasionally being searched (i literally have been crossing the border once a week for about 3 years, and the number of times my car has been searched can be counted on one hand).

 

- some officers are dickheads. most of them are not. some that seem like dickheads are just putting it on in order to do their job, such as...

 

- they will ask you weird questions on purpose just to see how you handle it. being a defensive, argumentative douchebag is one of the red flags they're looking for. being a stammering nervous wreck is the other.

 

- yeah, your passport has some fluffy feel-good-diplomacy bullshit on it. that's not the law. you can be denied entry for any reason, and it's completely up to the one officer that was assigned to inspect you on that occasion. the country that issued your passport may wish that you be treated like a prince ambassador, but it's not really up to that country, is it? it's up to the country you're trying to infiltrate.

 

now whether all of this truth i've just stated is fair or right can of course be debated. i really really really hate it when people say shit like "well you don't have anything to worry about if you don't have anything to hide," but i'm sort of leaning toward that in this case. visiting other countries is not a right. if you have something to hide, you shouldn't be crossing the border. i've never had a real problem, in all my crossings. there are some dickhead officers, but if you have the fucking spine to grin and bear it and be respectful and plain with your answers, you'll doubtlessly find that the conclusion of your inspection is reasonable.

 

except it's horseshit that they can search your laptops and the like. i doubt that they do it very often, but it's bullshit that they can do it. they probably only do it to argumentative douchebags that piss them off. and brown people. and people that look creepy, knaw'm sayin?

 

the guy in that recording is never going to have pleasant encounters with authority. you can tell. he's just one of those people. his voice, his demeanor, everything. all wound up, always fighting THE MAN, never takes a day off.

 

if someone like me started a recording whenever i crossed the border, you know, just in case, there would be hours and hours and days of boring procedural nothingness. the very fact that he was recording in the first place means A) he was looking for a fight, or B) he tends to never have pleasant encounters with authority, because he's just one of those people.

[oscillik]

i cross the US/Can border every week. i'm an american. some points:

 

- it's true that you have no rights at the border. they can dismantle your car to search it and then leave it. they can search everything that you have as extensively as they like, including your laptop's hard drive. they can remove the hard drive and keep it, copy it, whatever it until they're satisfied.

 

- the officers are not there to serve you. they're there to serve everyone who stays in their own countries and don't cause any trouble. if you're crossing the border, you're either smuggling shit (illegal shit or taxable shit) or are going to stay and work illegally or are a terrorist. it's up to you to prove otherwise. this usually just entails answering their simple questions plainly and respectfully, and occasionally being searched (i literally have been crossing the border once a week for about 3 years, and the number of times my car has been searched can be counted on one hand).

 

- some officers are dickheads. most of them are not. some that seem like dickheads are just putting it on in order to do their job, such as...

 

- they will ask you weird questions on purpose just to see how you handle it. being a defensive, argumentative douchebag is one of the red flags they're looking for. being a stammering nervous wreck is the other.

 

- yeah, your passport has some fluffy feel-good-diplomacy bullshit on it. that's not the law. you can be denied entry for any reason, and it's completely up to the one officer that was assigned to inspect you on that occasion. the country that issued your passport may wish that you be treated like a prince ambassador, but it's not really up to that country, is it? it's up to the country you're trying to infiltrate.

 

now whether all of this truth i've just stated is fair or right can of course be debated. i really really really hate it when people say shit like "well you don't have anything to worry about if you don't have anything to hide," but i'm sort of leaning toward that in this case. visiting other countries is not a right. if you have something to hide, you shouldn't be crossing the border. i've never had a real problem, in all my crossings. there are some dickhead officers, but if you have the fucking spine to grin and bear it and be respectful and plain with your answers, you'll doubtlessly find that the conclusion of your inspection is reasonable.

 

except it's horseshit that they can search your laptops and the like. i doubt that they do it very often, but it's bullshit that they can do it. they probably only do it to argumentative douchebags that piss them off. and brown people. and people that look creepy, knaw'm sayin?

 

the guy in that recording is never going to have pleasant encounters with authority. you can tell. he's just one of those people. his voice, his demeanor, everything. all wound up, always fighting THE MAN, never takes a day off.

 

if someone like me started a recording whenever i crossed the border, you know, just in case, there would be hours and hours and days of boring procedural nothingness. the very fact that he was recording in the first place means A) he was looking for a fight, or B) he tends to never have pleasant encounters with authority, because he's just one of those people.

 

ok, firstly i think that if the officers doing these questionings were more polite and respectful, then this kind of thing would not be derided by people outside of the country. you may say some justification such as "it's their job" etc, but other countries manage to do it with a bit more respect. you say "it's up to you to prove otherwise. this usually just entails answering their simple questions plainly and respectfully, and occasionally being searched" - i say that respect is earned. both ways.

 

also

 

visiting other countries is not a right.

it is exactly this kind of attitude that is wrong. what next? breathing air is not a right?

 

Cohagen! Give these people air!

[Guest vodor]

rights do not exist outside of countries and governments, unless you want to talk philosophically about natural rights or human rights. do you really think it's a human right to visit whatever country that you like?

[Guest Z_B_Z]

THREE TERRORISTS A DAY. THEYRE SWARMING OUR BOARDERS.

[oscillik]

rights do not exist outside of countries and governments, unless you want to talk philosophically about natural rights or human rights. do you really think it's a human right to visit whatever country that you like?

i think as a human being, inhabiting a planet, i should be able to step foot wherever i like.

 

just in case you didn't see my Total Recall reference, my point was half series half in jest.

 

either way, if these border patrol "cops" were more respectful and polite, then certain people would have less fuel to "rise up" and make recordings of this nature etc.

[Guest disparaissant]

the line was more like geef deez pee-pohl aaaiiyuh

[oscillik]

the line was more like geef deez pee-pohl aaaiiyuh

i like you. you have an appreciation for films similar to mine.

[Guest theSun]

even as someone who thinks some aspects of border patrol are unconstitutional, the guy in the vid had it coming to him.

 

also - lol at people who think it's their "right" to step foot anywhere they want. i'd love to see you have this philosophical debate with any cop or landowner.

[TwiddleBot]

gawd i hate the border crossing. i do it 10-20 times per year. i usually rarely have problems, just act super confident without questioning their authority. border guards are kind of like alpha male dogs, if you show an iota of submissive behavior or challenge them they'll roll with it.

 

difference between both countries: when coming into the us they are paranoid you might have a teeny bit of pot on you, if you have so much as a tat or anything counter culture showing expect to be searched

coming into canada they don't give a shit what you got on you as long as you paid your taxes

[oscillik]

even as someone who thinks some aspects of border patrol are unconstitutional, the guy in the vid had it coming to him.

 

also - lol at people who think it's their "right" to step foot anywhere they want. i'd love to see you have this philosophical debate with any cop or landowner.

as a traveller, you have to pay certain fees to enter the country.

 

therefore, since i paid those fees, i should be entitled to travel inside of that country. so i do have the "right".

[TwiddleBot]

therefore, since i paid those fees, i should be entitled to travel inside of that country. so i do have the "right".

 

most normal developed nations don't make such a big deal about crossing the border. europe would collapse if they were as paranoid as the us. it's kind of shameful that two major developed nations have made basic travel such a pain in the ass

[Guest blicero]

you are defending them

 

sorry, no.

 

i despise most of them.

 

many of them represent the worst aspects of law enforcement.

[Guest theSun]

even as someone who thinks some aspects of border patrol are unconstitutional, the guy in the vid had it coming to him.

 

also - lol at people who think it's their "right" to step foot anywhere they want. i'd love to see you have this philosophical debate with any cop or landowner.

as a traveller, you have to pay certain fees to enter the country.

 

therefore, since i paid those fees, i should be entitled to travel inside of that country. so i do have the "right".

 

where does it say this in any US law?

 

i get what you're saying philosophically but any court would roflmao you out the door.

[Guest blicero]

even as someone who thinks some aspects of border patrol are unconstitutional, the guy in the vid had it coming to him.

 

also - lol at people who think it's their "right" to step foot anywhere they want. i'd love to see you have this philosophical debate with any cop or landowner.

as a traveller, you have to pay certain fees to enter the country.

 

therefore, since i paid those fees, i should be entitled to travel inside of that country. so i do have the "right".

 

Fees? what fees? I've never paid fees to enter Canada. I've only paid fees to use the bridge or tunnel.

[Guest theSun]

i'd go so far as to say show me where it says any foreigner has any "right" to do anything in the US

[oscillik]

even as someone who thinks some aspects of border patrol are unconstitutional, the guy in the vid had it coming to him.

 

also - lol at people who think it's their "right" to step foot anywhere they want. i'd love to see you have this philosophical debate with any cop or landowner.

as a traveller, you have to pay certain fees to enter the country.

 

therefore, since i paid those fees, i should be entitled to travel inside of that country. so i do have the "right".

 

Fees? what fees? I've never paid fees to enter Canada. I've only paid fees to use the bridge or tunnel.

fees to enter the US. when buying a plane ticket, you pay a variety of fees. here is an extract from my receipt:

 

Fare Breakdown

Airfare: 870.00 USD

U.S. Customs User Fee: 5.50

U.S. Immigration User Fee: 7.00

U.S. APHIS User Fee: 5.00

U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 32.20

U.S. Security Service Fee: 7.50

U.K. Air Passenger Duty: 58.30

U.K. Passenger Service Charge: 16.20

U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 13.50

Per Person Total: 1,015.20

USD

eTicket Total: 1,015.20

USD

Form of Payment:

VISA

Last Four Digits XXXX

The airfare you paid on this itinerary totals: 870.00 USD

The taxes you paid on this itinerary total: 145.20 USD

 

you are defending them

 

sorry, no.

 

i despise most of them.

 

many of them represent the worst aspects of law enforcement.

 

i'm not defending these guys, because the way they go about this shit is a fucking joke, but they are following a similar routine. they're just doing so with a shitty attitude and a tendency to abuse authority.

[Guest disparaissant]

that doesn't mean you have paid to ENTER, you've just paid to be considered to be allowed to enter. they arent going to give you your 140 bucks back if you are denied entry for whatever reason. it's bs, yeah, but its not a guarantee.

[oscillik]

that doesn't mean you have paid to ENTER, you've just paid to be considered to be allowed to enter. they arent going to give you your 140 bucks back if you are denied entry for whatever reason. it's bs, yeah, but its not a guarantee.

if i was denied entry because some fucking "cop" has a superiority complex, and detains me for extremely questionable reasons, then i would definitely take my case to court.

[Guest blicero]

even as someone who thinks some aspects of border patrol are unconstitutional, the guy in the vid had it coming to him.

 

also - lol at people who think it's their "right" to step foot anywhere they want. i'd love to see you have this philosophical debate with any cop or landowner.

as a traveller, you have to pay certain fees to enter the country.

 

therefore, since i paid those fees, i should be entitled to travel inside of that country. so i do have the "right".

 

Fees? what fees? I've never paid fees to enter Canada. I've only paid fees to use the bridge or tunnel.

fees to enter the US. when buying a plane ticket, you pay a variety of fees. here is an extract from my receipt:

 

Fare Breakdown

Airfare: 870.00 USD

U.S. Customs User Fee: 5.50

U.S. Immigration User Fee: 7.00

U.S. APHIS User Fee: 5.00

U.S. Federal Transportation Tax: 32.20

U.S. Security Service Fee: 7.50

U.K. Air Passenger Duty: 58.30

U.K. Passenger Service Charge: 16.20

U.S. Passenger Facility Charge: 13.50

Per Person Total: 1,015.20

USD

eTicket Total: 1,015.20

USD

Form of Payment:

VISA

Last Four Digits XXXX

The airfare you paid on this itinerary totals: 870.00 USD

The taxes you paid on this itinerary total: 145.20 USD

 

you are defending them

 

sorry, no.

 

i despise most of them.

 

many of them represent the worst aspects of law enforcement.

 

i'm not defending these guys, because the way they go about this shit is a fucking joke, but they are following a similar routine. they're just doing so with a shitty attitude and a tendency to abuse authority.

 

RE: Fees – those are fees to pay for the cost of processing you through customs, it's not a cover charge. you didn't buy your way into the country, and if you aren't allowed in, your money is not refunded.

 

RE: defending them:

 

i'm not defending these guys, because the way they go about this shit is a fucking joke, but they are following a similar routine. they're just doing so with a shitty attitude and a tendency to abuse authority.

 

All I was saying is that they are doing the same thing that any customs agent or form is doing, but the way they are doing it is indefensible. i defend they're right to ask those questions, but not their right to cop an attitude about it or provoke or harass you in the process.

[Guest theSun]

that doesn't mean you have paid to ENTER, you've just paid to be considered to be allowed to enter. they arent going to give you your 140 bucks back if you are denied entry for whatever reason. it's bs, yeah, but its not a guarantee.

if i was denied entry because some fucking "cop" has a superiority complex, and detains me for extremely questionable reasons, then i would definitely take my case to court.

 

where you would quickly lose in the first court you hit. customs can completely dismantle your car (rip out the seats, tear apart the engine, etc) and leave it there "ok you can go now" without reassembling the car or paying for anything. they absolutely could have done that with disgruntled canuck guy. that's just the way it is here. is it unconstitutional? i can't find any precedent, but i've heard of this happening to some unlucky folks and they were basically shitouttaluck.

 

i don't agree with the policy, but don't kid yourself that "ohh if this happened to me i'd wtfpwn these noobs!"

[oscillik]

i just find it quite funny that the only people who seem to be defending all of this is, of course, the American populace.

 

America is the new North Korea.