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Why can you hypothesize that? They will clearly move over to privacy coins, and since I would guess they likely have high transaction throughput as opposed to hoarding activity, they do not keep some steady baseline quantity of crypto locked up in cold storage. Furthermore just because money launderers become richer if they hold crypto accidentally through the act of money laundering does not mean money laundering activities will increase any more than they currently are with cash. And I never said it was a great analogy, I said it was what people said but were wrong about.

The percentage of crypto being used for money laundering is indeed higher than the percentage of cash being used for money laundering. But out of all money laundering being done in the world, the percentage of it that is being done in cash is significantly larger, by many orders of magnitude, than the percentage of it that is being done in crypto. All new technologies like this that grant superior freedoms to humanity are initially used for crime, because crimes are the things most restricted in one's freedom to perform them. It was the same with the internet, people initially said it's just for porn and drugs and weird people. Now look. The same thing happened to crypto in the beginning. This should be no surprise.

You could say the same about email though "It's just as easy to mail documents and everyone's doing it, and you even get a hard copy. Email is trying to solve problems that don't exist" crypto makes centralized money transfer services obsolete, but I will admit you're right about the consumer protection aspect with chargebacks and damaged products for instance. But that is just one aspect

Even more shocking in related videos.

holy shit

1) Every single crypto transaction being a taxable event and how unsustainable that is, in comparison to fiat not being a taxable event every single time you do a transaction using it based on the foreign currency exchange rate fluctuations 2) Hyper inflation is not inherent in markets. I don't know what you're even talking about here 3) Inflation always equals devaluation by definition. There is a higher supply of the fiat therefore it is worth less. And it is true that no value is created out of nothing in hard forks, I already gave you a very detailed explanation of why no value is being created out of nothing with hard forks but I guess you didn't understand it so whatever 4) I'm not contradicting anything you're just not understanding the minutiae of the topic at hand here. I stated exactly what I stated before in different words. I never said they all are and that's irrelevant. They are the only currencies capable of guaranteeing their deflationary qualities - no nation state can guarantee it won't inflate its fiat by printing more. 5) I don't know what you're responding to but it's not my post. What imperfect thing am I making the enemy of what good thing? 6) I never said it's a technological leap in fact I specifically stated in my post that it's basically analogous to a centralized shitcoin, but it's just an example of something kind of like crypto becoming popular in a developing nation Anyway I am not going to engage in this discussion anymore because you're never staying on topic. All of these bullet points have diverged from the original topic every time I reply and you're either straw manning me or not discussing the topic at hand. Maybe some readers will gain something from it but I don't feel like making these long replies to you anymore since you're basically: a) Not understanding the topic being discussed, and demonstrating that with your refutations which don't even make sense and are just wrong and display a lack of understanding of the definition of the terms used here and how the technology and markets actually work b) Responding to things I didn't even say or don't really care about and didn't make any claims regarding

1) The tax situation where every single crypto exchange involving fiat or alternative cryptocurrencies is now considered a taxable event. This has nothing to do with the technology of cryptocurrencies themselves, and everything to do with the tax situation itself. The bad tax situation is not a reason why cryptocurrencies are not good because it has nothing to do with cryptocurrencies and only applies in countries like the US that try to treat them that way 2) This is an argument against fiat currency not crytocurrency. With cryptocurrencies this would never happen. Your argument is essentially "cryptocurrencies are not yet the one true silver bullet because the Venezuelan infrastructure is not ready for them yet" which is fair enough but that's due to the current circumstance not the nature of crypto itself 3) Still not sure why you're bringing this up but I assume it's still in your comparison to fiat inflationary devaluation. Nothing was created out of nothing because blockchain hard forks only have value if people think they do. This is a zero sum game and value did not magically appear, people simply think those hard forks are worth exchanging fiat for so they do it. An increasing in crypto holdings due to a hard fork is more analogous to a dividend payout than fiat production inflation. Fiat inflation = more fiat is produced therefore your existing fiat is worth less Crypto hard forks = there is a new hard fork off the old blockchain, the vast majority of which are worthless, but some have values are new currencies in their own right and holders of the original now have assets in both chains. If you think this is an issue then fair enough, but no value is being magically created since they only have value if people buy them, and in those two cases they did. 4) Crypto holders do not inherent get a boost in the fiat valuations of their crypto stash from hard forks - they only do if people think those hard forks are valuable. I never said crypto hard forks devalue existing fiat, I said inflationary fiat money printing devalues fiat, and there is no such analogous situation within deflationary cryptocurrencies. This is economics 101 6) Fiat currencies are backed by the full force of their respective countries, fair enough - and this is often good enough. But it's not perfect, and cryptocurrencies are perfect in that regard with respect to the lack of inflationary fiat printing for currency devaluation purposes for the purposes of paying off national debt. The crypto market is indeed undervalued right now, thanks for making that excellent point 6) It's a payment processor which uses a centralized database to track credits which are paid for initially through fiat. Whatever, this is a semantics point anyway and regardless it's still far inferior to cryptocurrencies but has still proven that widespread adoption is completely possible.

This website has proven to not be friendly to statistics and facts that contradict its worldview, so I don't talk about it here anymore.

This is the coolest thing in this thread by far. It's also wildly inaccurate. M-Pesa is a payment processing platform, that allows people to use their mobile phones to do all kinds of financially related activities, using the Kenyan shilling. http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/21/africa/mpesa-10th-anniversary/index.html It was also launched before Bitcoin was invented (or at least publicly announced), as M-Pesa came into being in 2007. ...Wildly inaccurate? Those articles confirm everything I said. And it's nothing like Bitcoin it's a completely centralized service offered by companies.

Actually one of the first precursors to cryptocurrencies that were actually used in the real world started in Kenya called m-pesa which is basically phone talk minutes which you can trade with other people, and people started using it as a currency because it's really convenient, then when the phone company caught on they re-marketed it as an actual currency. It's now like the dominant currency in Kenya and the largest business or something of that magnitude. So for sure cryptocurrencies will displace this because they are superior technically to m-pesa which is 100% centralized and provided by a business as a service

Here these Democrats are again constantly slandering me and, like, if we had better libel laws this wouldn't be an issue, but if you look at the numbers they're just trying to pull a fast one on me, calling me "Diaper Donnie" as if it even rhymes - let me tell you if they can't come up with better slogans than that - I mean if they think I want to get in bed with Big Diaper they're out of their minds. Just because they're in the pockets of the sanitation companies doesn't mean I'm going to be, mark my words if you ever see them trying to pull this nonsense again, just do me a favor, laugh at them for me, because they don't know how to use time efficiently. Let me tell you I wake up early and go to bed late and if you think I'm going to waste my precious time for a bathroom break like Crooked Hillary took during the middle of our debate, remember that? Then you're out of your mind if you actually think that. Oh and remember that time Crooked Hillary and I had a debate and she took a really long bathroom break? Can you believe it, what an inefficient use of time from a person aspiring for such a higher office. Let me tell you. *continues demented Alzheimer's rambling for another half hour before his handler takes him off the stage*

Furthermore and most important, cash based foreign currency exchanges tend to be predatory and charge extremely high fees, I'd assume even moreso in areas where such currencies are in high demand over the local inflating currency, acquiring an even larger premium. The point of cryptocurrencies is to give anyone access to a GLOBAL money changing network where arbitration is done at the global level instead of at the inter-country border level, completely eliminating inefficiencies that predatory money changing merchants try to exploit. The goal is to eliminate fiat almost completely Is it mature yet? No. But it will be, don't fool yourself. People were saying the internet would transform the world in this way when it was created, and they were called crazy, but it took decades for this to happen, now it's unstoppable

That's not true at all, even shit tier African countries have widespread use of smart phones and data plans. They actually skipped the normal telephone lines and cable internet phase and went straight to wireless because it's much cheaper, which is astounding but expected. The most important thing to note here is that the use of cryptocurrencies requires extremely small amounts of bandwidth, and in fact you can even have massive latencies and basically the shittiest internet connection ever and still be fine. In these countries, stable currencies are not in widespread use and sometimes illegal. You're thinking of an idealistic scenario - Ukraine is much more first world than the places I'm talking about https://qz.com/748354/smartphone-use-has-more-than-doubled-in-africa-in-two-years/

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7nsnbd/put_this_lunacy_in_check_trumps_fiery_tweet/ds4acnt/

If their money is worthless, how are they buying bitcoin?And if there are no central authorities authorizing anyone, why do you have to do KYC to get in on ICOs and exchanges? (Ignoring the DEXs for now, those that currently exist suck donkey balls, and liquidity issues are always going to be a problem) What will happen Is governments will create their own digital currencies, banks will use permissioned block chains, and even more oversight over personal finances will be exerted by regulators. I’m good though, I made a bunch of cash off my “investments”. It's not "worthless" it's just worthless in comparison to the fiat denominations used - trillions of dollars to buy loaves of bread. And they cannot hold it for extended periods of time because it is continually being devalued. The situation right now with centralized exchanges is simply a growing pain we are moving through. Things like localbitcoins help sidestep that, and the situation will get better as time moves on. Governments will indeed create their own digital currencies (Putin is planning to), banks will indeed create permissions block chains (Ripple), but nobody who understands will choose to use it. If people want to they will, if they don't want to they won't. Privacy coins like monero sidestep all regulation And it's nice to see that you view this technology as an "investment" instead of a technology and social revolution Monetize is a giant pain in the ass to use. I like Ethereum and smart contracts, I believe that’s where the real value in all of this lies. Transparent, trustless contracts will enable a new realm of business opportunities. All this whining about “muh taxes” is ridiculous nonsense. You live in a first world country because your taxes provide infrastructure, governance, regulation, and stability. Since the entryway to BTC is through fiat, and the Venezuelan fiat is worthless, how are they buying BTC? And again, BTC forks literally created free money (if you hold BTC, you get the forked coin). And speaking of Tx times/fees, what’s the average BTC Tx time and fee? I'm not wining about muh taxes, I am a liberal who votes for higher taxes against myself. I'm simply pointing out a fact which you've conveniently ignored - the tax situation has nothing to do with crypto and everything to do with the, well, only the tax situation Did you not understand what I said about Venezuelan fiat? It's not worthless, you just need large quantities of it to buy anything because the denominations are off, and it's experiencing hyper inflation I have no fucking idea where they're buying it, but once again that's irrelevant because I'm not even talking about the situation as it stands right now, I'm talking about how things will be once the technologies mature. BTC forks do not create free money unless someone values the altcoin enough to buy it. Look at the countless BTC forks that are worthless. I can make a BTC fork right now and it would be worthless because nobody would buy it. People can create altcoins - that doesn't mean BTC itself is being inflated because there is only one BTC And if you're getting free money valued in inflationary fiat in the form of extra altcoins after a fork, that's literally the opposite of creating a larger quantity of fiat and devaluing existing fiat because fiat holders do not get a boost in their fiat stashes like crypto holders during crypto forks do. It's the exact opposite thing. I think you're confusing denomination, supply, and value.

Yeah, they decoupled last month, okay. You can definitely extrapolate that from the many years of crypto market activity and conclude this with certainty. They're decoupled and we can now know that this market trend will continue into the future, despite the fact that according to you it's all a gamble /s And I never once suggested investing anything significant in vaporware cryptos which only have whitepapers. I have significant money in the space too. It doesn't make you a wise authority, it means nothing, all it means is well, that you've put significant money into the space. I specifically have stated many times this thread is not about investing or price speculation.

It's not supposed to "generate" money. It only does right now because it's a new technology (9 years old now though) and people are still adopting it, so if you buy in early you will get a larger share than a person who buys in late, when it comes to fixed-supply currencies like Bitcoin. There are other coins that will enable Proof of Stake (PoS) meaning you basically get dividend payouts for "staking" your currency, kind of like interest. Ethereum is going to do this. The value it holds is in your ability to take part in the global, uncensorable, pseudonymous, payment transfer network

When you look at other things from the same perspective it makes sense. How do pieces of paper generate value? I mean they're just pieces of paper with a serial number and a dead President's face on them How do online in-game items generate value? I mean they're just in-game items, yet some video games have items worth thousands of dollars How do useless precious gems generate value? They do nothing and are mainly used for aesthetic purposes BItcoin has value BECAUSE it's online, not in spite of it. That's its purpose, its value And yes, you can divide them up arbitrarily, that's an important point. But the max cap of 21m of them means that if you buy 1 Bitcoin, you own 1/21m of the entire worldwide Bitcoin supply, forever, from now on. That means it's deflationary

As for mempool bloat and transaction time - I just cashed out some ESPP stock on (well known brokerage firm) and it's literally taking 4 days to get my fiat into my bank and ready to use. This is a fucking joke and if you don't think the financial services industry needs a shakeup with some competition you're out of your mind EDIT: HAHA never fucking mind, it's going to take SEVEN fucking days to get my fiat. SEVEN DAYS. Blockchain secured shares and dividend distribution N O W. Every company should have its own cryptocurrency where the protocol itself allows dividend distribution, built on top of a stable platform like ETH. This would be centralized at the dividend distribution linkage point to reality but that's inherent to companies.

The fact that I didn't realize that was fake until the end is evidence enough that we need to impeach (...it's fake, right...?)

Sometimes, other people say exactly what I want to say. Also there are tax solutions out there for crypto that will take all of your transactions etc etc and automagically prep a tax return for you. None of the arguments are against cryptocurrencies but are instead against the current regulatory and merchant adoption environment surrounding them. The tax code is written retardedly, that's not Satoshi's fault. There's nothing in the source code regarding tax law. You can blame regulators for that entirely. If they wanted to tax fiat or anything else as pedantically as cryptocurrencies then they could do so. Do you pay capital gains tax on all fiat purchases based on foreign currency exchange rate fluctuations since the time you received the fiat? See how retarded that is? That's identical to the cryptocurrency situation and it has nothing to do with cryptocurrency itself, and everything to do with the fact that this is the early stage still where there are gains to be made on the technological adoption curve so it's being treated like an asset by tax code when it should be a currency

If their money is worthless, how are they buying bitcoin? And if there are no central authorities authorizing anyone, why do you have to do KYC to get in on ICOs and exchanges? (Ignoring the DEXs for now, those that currently exist suck donkey balls, and liquidity issues are always going to be a problem) What will happen Is governments will create their own digital currencies, banks will use permissioned block chains, and even more oversight over personal finances will be exerted by regulators. I’m good though, I made a bunch of cash off my “investments”. It's not "worthless" it's just worthless in comparison to the fiat denominations used - trillions of dollars to buy loaves of bread. And they cannot hold it for extended periods of time because it is continually being devalued. The situation right now with centralized exchanges is simply a growing pain we are moving through. Things like localbitcoins help sidestep that, and the situation will get better as time moves on. Governments will indeed create their own digital currencies (Putin is planning to), banks will indeed create permissions block chains (Ripple), but nobody who understands will choose to use it. If people want to they will, if they don't want to they won't. Privacy coins like monero sidestep all regulation And it's nice to see that you view this technology as an "investment" instead of a technology and social revolution

State issued currency - central control, they issue as much as they want. In places like the US they have a decent currency, the USD which only loses 3% in value yearly. In other places like Venezuela they have 100000% yearly inflation meaning their currency is absolute garbage compared to even the biggest shittiest cryptocurrency, quite literally Fiat = printed by government Banks = fractional reserve lending = multiplication of money supply which forms a feedback loop since some lent funds result in deposits into the bank AGAIN which they can then lend out fractionally. Fractional reserve banking is a massive bubble - deflationary cryptocurrencies eliminate the possibility of this happening since you can't create currency out of thin air to lend to people Lol how many bitcoin forks have there been and how many more are planned? Bitcoin forks are not the same thing as fiat inflation. There is only one Bitcoin by definition - the longest Proof of Work chain following consensus rules - as explicitly stated by Satoshi in the whitepaper. Those other copies are irrelevant and do not affect the supply of Bitcoin because they are not Bitcoin. Bitcoin forks are necessary to make updates to Bitcoin. It's not an issue it's the entire point, that's how open source software works

As for the investment point - if you live in a first world country with a decent government you probably don't "need" cryptocurrency and that's why you don't understand it. But if you live in Venezuela or Zimbabwe where the government printed "trillions" of dollars worth of worthless paper money, inflated it so much that you literally have to carry duffel bags of fiat currency around to buy anything with, then you will realize how important access to a global financial system is for humanity as a whole. The video above mentions this exact point and goes into further detail regarding the fact that the majority of people in the world, people who aren't privileged like us sitting here capable of shitposting online, literally have no access to bank accounts - and cryptocurrencies will give them access with a smart phone app, requiring no permission from central authorities authorizing them to have a bank account

Half an hour, no point half assing it. Andreas Antonopoulus has great noob videos