Satori Rotors - Sacred Geometry

[Satori Rotors]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and joined partly because I don't think music is being heard by anyone other than my mates, who say it's good but they probably would, so any constructive criticism would be appreciated. I'm also interested to see what other people are producing here.

I've been a huge fan of The Black Dog, Autechre, BOC, Aphex, etc. since they started making music, so that's where a lot of my influences come from. I like making psychedelic music with melody and atmosphere. I try making more textural, darker stuff sometimes but can't seem to help forcing a melody in.

These are my latest two tracks that will be part of a three track EP. They were mostly built with sounds made from scratch in Ableton Wavetable. I'm still not great at mastering so some of my older tracks need some work in that respect. Thanks for looking/listening.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Satori Rotors

[Satori Rotors]

A slowed down version of Metatron:

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Satori Rotors

[exitonly]

Definitely hearing the BOC influnce on Metatron. Sounds more like old school BOC-tapes BOC which is cool. I'm digging the drums quite a bit and the over aesthetic My feedback on that one is that I don't think there are enough ideas in it to last 4 minutes. I'd recommend either shaving it a bit or introduce a bit more variety. Also, I think there is a lack of phrasing in your melodic composition. The melodies just kind of meander. Sometimes that can be good but at least in this case I feel like that want to be coherent, but just aren't.

 

Vector Equilibrium - This one reminds me of a mix between Dayvan Cowboy and some older boc material. From a compositional standpoint, I think this one is more developed. It sounds nice! I don't have too much feedback on this one, other than the melodies do wander a bit in this one as well. There is an overall feel to them, but they arent something I'm going to remember later.  Outside of that, sounds to me like it is delivering on what it's trying to accomplish. The mid section switches up the track quite a bit and keeps it interesting, while still maintaining enough familiarity and consistency. Nice job on this one.

 

 

[Satori Rotors]

16 minutes ago, exitonly said:

Definitely hearing the BOC influnce on Metatron. Sounds more like old school BOC-tapes BOC which is cool. I'm digging the drums quite a bit and the over aesthetic My feedback on that one is that I don't think there are enough ideas in it to last 4 minutes. I'd recommend either shaving it a bit or introduce a bit more variety. Also, I think there is a lack of phrasing in your melodic composition. The melodies just kind of meander. Sometimes that can be good but at least in this case I feel like that want to be coherent, but just aren't.

 

Vector Equilibrium - This one reminds me of a mix between Dayvan Cowboy and some older boc material. From a compositional standpoint, I think this one is more developed. It sounds nice! I don't have too much feedback on this one, other than the melodies do wander a bit in this one as well. There is an overall feel to them, but they arent something I'm going to remember later.  Outside of that, sounds to me like it is delivering on what it's trying to accomplish. The mid section switches up the track quite a bit and keeps it interesting, while still maintaining enough familiarity and consistency. Nice job on this one.

 

 

Thanks, kind of you to respond in such detail. I admit I'm no musician and can't read music, so mostly draw the notes in rather than play on a keyboard. Will bear in mind what you said.

I briefly checked your bandcamp page, pretty good what I heard, will listen more later.

[exitonly]

3 minutes ago, Satori Rotors said:

Thanks, kind of you to respond in such detail. I admit I'm no musician and can't read music, so mostly draw the notes in rather than play on a keyboard. Will bear in mind what you said.

I briefly checked your bandcamp page, pretty good what I heard, will listen more later.

Thanks! I'm open to feedback as well There is a thread for that album over here -

 

There's a lot of ways to define "musician". You're writing music, so I'd call you a musician. Lots of musicians can't read music. With regards to writing melodies,I'm no expert either. However there are some basic guidelines of repetition and variation that work well. You can build melodies with structure such as a simple ABABACAB format or something like that. So, make an initial melodic line (A), then one that responds to it somehow (B).  Then repeat that AB format at least once to make familiar, then you can introduce a secondary responding melody (C). Then when you return back to the AB format, it feels familiar to the listener.

Variations can be either through pitch, rhythm, loudness or texture (which encompasses so much). If you have an initial phrase that starts out slow, using maybe quarter notes and then speeds up using 8th or 16th notes, just experiment with altering that so it starts out fast and then ends slow. Same with notes rising or failing in pitch etc. Then its just a matter of copying/pasting copies and making variations and then picking the best ones.

To me, one of the quintessential examples of this in modern electronic music is this - 

 

The structure of that melody is so crystal clear, you can hear all the variations and the feeling of "returning home" so well. Then it just drills that melody into and used all the textural/rhythmic elements for variation and interest.  The B part with the bassline is not quite as strong of an idea but still follows similar rules. I look to this song for inspiration a lot.

 

Anywho, probably overtalked this one

[Satori Rotors]

On 7/22/2023 at 6:09 PM, exitonly said:

Thanks! I'm open to feedback as well There is a thread for that album over here -

 

There's a lot of ways to define "musician". You're writing music, so I'd call you a musician. Lots of musicians can't read music. With regards to writing melodies,I'm no expert either. However there are some basic guidelines of repetition and variation that work well. You can build melodies with structure such as a simple ABABACAB format or something like that. So, make an initial melodic line (A), then one that responds to it somehow (B).  Then repeat that AB format at least once to make familiar, then you can introduce a secondary responding melody (C). Then when you return back to the AB format, it feels familiar to the listener.

Variations can be either through pitch, rhythm, loudness or texture (which encompasses so much). If you have an initial phrase that starts out slow, using maybe quarter notes and then speeds up using 8th or 16th notes, just experiment with altering that so it starts out fast and then ends slow. Same with notes rising or failing in pitch etc. Then its just a matter of copying/pasting copies and making variations and then picking the best ones.

To me, one of the quintessential examples of this in modern electronic music is this - 

 

The structure of that melody is so crystal clear, you can hear all the variations and the feeling of "returning home" so well. Then it just drills that melody into and used all the textural/rhythmic elements for variation and interest.  The B part with the bassline is not quite as strong of an idea but still follows similar rules. I look to this song for inspiration a lot.

 

Anywho, probably overtalked this one

Thanks for taking time to explain that, much appreciated! The ABABACAB concept makes sense and is useful. I'm also of the opinion that there are no hard rules except maybe when making pop or rock music. I like the idea of music that may at first not be obviously good but improves over time after repeated listens - it requires learning. I'm not suggesting my music is that at all - it's a long way off, but I guess sometimes I'm aiming for something like that, where the chords/notes may sound difficult or discordant initially but eventually get into one's head, or maybe just my head and nobody else's and therefore is just crap. .

I was amused when you said there are not enough ideas in Metatron to keep it going for 4 minutes but appreciate what you mean and think I agree. It seems attention spans are dwindling over time and I try to make my tracks shorter and shorter, but then Autechre's remix of St Etienne's 'Like a Motorway' goes on for over 8 minutes, hardly ever changes much in terms of melody or rhythm, yet for me is completely captivating and sublime from start to end. Like you say, I guess much of that is about loudness and textural changes, then the way the beat changes 7 minutes in - subtle charms!

That Telefon Tel Aviv album is a real classic and I was very fortunate to get it on vinyl when it came out because it's worth a small fortune now - never leaving my collection!

I still have not had time to sit down and properly listen to your music but I will.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Satori Rotors

[exitonly]

I totally agree on the hard rules. I definitely don't want to come across as saying I think you should have to do follow any of my suggestions at all. At the end of the day it is up to you how you write your music and it's totally fine the way it is. I was under the impression you were looking for some constructive criticism so I just said what I would do to change those songs to fit my impression of what I would want those songs to sound like if I were working on them.

 

I totally agree with what you are saying about not needing things to change too much. My tracks are probably way too busy so I'm coming from the opposite angle. I do enjoy long ambient pieces though, including AE stuff like perlance range tracks. Totally subjective and I might even have a different opinion while listening to your track in a different mood etc. I was just thinking about it from a perspective that if I was working on it, I'd probably trim it a bit or add more variety. 

 

In any case keep up writing stuff and posting it here. Those tracks are nice as they are

[Satori Rotors]

19 hours ago, exitonly said:

I totally agree on the hard rules. I definitely don't want to come across as saying I think you should have to do follow any of my suggestions at all. At the end of the day it is up to you how you write your music and it's totally fine the way it is. I was under the impression you were looking for some constructive criticism so I just said what I would do to change those songs to fit my impression of what I would want those songs to sound like if I were working on them.

 

I totally agree with what you are saying about not needing things to change too much. My tracks are probably way too busy so I'm coming from the opposite angle. I do enjoy long ambient pieces though, including AE stuff like perlance range tracks. Totally subjective and I might even have a different opinion while listening to your track in a different mood etc. I was just thinking about it from a perspective that if I was working on it, I'd probably trim it a bit or add more variety. 

 

In any case keep up writing stuff and posting it here. Those tracks are nice as they are

Thank you, you never came across nagatively at all and I appreciate criticism from people who are not close friends, otherwise I'd just be living in a bubble, so it's cool. I defintely take on board what you said about keeping things interesting within the duration and sometimes shorter is better. I used to make tracks about 6 or 7 minutes long but over the years I've tried to keep them under 5 minutes. I reckon there is quite a skill in maintaining interest for longer than that.

You're right, sometimes you have to be in a certain mood for certain music and some things are not so obvious at first. Pop music is often catchy on first listens but often doesn't endure repeated listens.

Thanks again for the kind comments. 

[NonEst]

This was really good, I especially enjoyed listening to the drums, the BoC influences are strong (and that is a good thing imo), well done! I am quite curious in your drum production workflow , and what kind of software / hardware you use. Feels like I there is a bit to learn for me here.

Also I don't think your songs are too long, sometimes it can be good to just stick with one idea throughout with some alterations, if that core idea is strong enough, (I myself struggle alot with this, but I also mostly enjoy creating various melodies and harmonies, the production side often falls short).

Edited August 2, 2023 by NonEst

[Satori Rotors]

8 hours ago, NonEst said:

This was really good, I especially enjoyed listening to the drums, the BoC influences are strong (and that is a good thing imo), well done! I am quite curious in your drum production workflow , and what kind of software / hardware you use. Feels like I there is a bit to learn for me here.

Also I don't think your songs are too long, sometimes it can be good to just stick with one idea throughout with some alterations, if that core idea is strong enough, (I myself struggle alot with this, but I also mostly enjoy creating various melodies and harmonies, the production side often falls short).

Thanks, kind of you to say! I make all my music in Ableton Live with a few plugins, although recently I’m trying to make more use of what’s already built into Live, as too many plugins can become overwhelming and since discovering I can make almost any sound in Live there’s increasingly less need for me to use third-party software except for mastering. The only hardware I have is an Ableton Push 2 controller and a Behringer TD-3 that’s sitting unused in its box. Hardware is for people with more money than me but I live in hope and keep buying the lottery tickets! 

I make most of my drums with Ableton’s Drum Rack, dragging individual hits into that, then drawing beats into the grid in a clip, or with Ableton’s Drum Synth, creating each kick, snare, hi-hat, etc. from scratch, then drawing those in as notes in a clip, then creating variations on that clip, then sometimes resampling them as audio loops and chopping up the loops, edding effects, etc. I treat my individual drum hits for variation/uniqueness by transposing/pitching/filtering/reversing or adding subtle noise/reverb, etc. I have used a few sampled loops in the past but prefer to make all beats from scratch. I go with whatever feels right or interesting in terms of rhythm, sometimes having loops or clips running simultaneously that have different timings, so they drift in and out of time. I like jazz drummers like Steve Gadd and was very influenced by Stasis (Steve Pickton) when I first started making music, so I guess my drums can sound busy at times because I like complexity and variation, which doesn’t always work for me, because I’m not that skilled.

I like your music too. I’ve only really listened to ‘Onto’ properly and it’s great, positive, uplifting and danceable. Both tracks on 'from ambient to machines' are nice too, quite an emotional feel and I like the beats. Will listen more when I have time. Keep doing it!

Edited August 3, 2023 by Satori Rotors