Where do you find meaning in life?

[SR4]

I hope someone will mention eastern concept of "attachment". Meaning of life or so called "enlightment" is about

to occur when a zen pupil finally leaves all of his attachments behind. His mind becomes "free" and he

obtains objective reason.

 

there's no objective reason. Enlightenment isn't about getting anything, it's about losing an illusion. But when you talk about a zen pupil leaving all their attachments behind, imo there's a nugget of truth in there - what do you think a persons greatest attachment might be?

 

 

i can get behind this absolutely....losing an illusion, great way to put it.

 

it's like humanity in our struggle to survive since our beginnings have hardwired into our brains that existence is based upon survival, but as we progress we slowly realize it becomes less and less about that...what is it about? when it seems to me that, realistically, we have just been asking ourselves a question that need not be answered.

 

it just is, right? and that's all we need to know

 

Buddhism is a great way of thinking, I wouldn't even call it a religion necessarily, more of a way of life, and the teachings of buddha help guide and keep you on that path.

 

 

I wouldn't choose one but if i had to choose a religion at gun point it would be Buddhism without doubt.

 

 

agreed with that as well.

[Guest Masonic Boom]

But there are so many differing strains and sects of Buddhism which tend to get all lumped in together that to me it'd be like saying "If I had, at gunpoint, to pick a religion, I'd pick Christianity!"

 

I suspect I'm too Western for any path of Buddhism. The religion I felt closest to was always Quakerism.

[SR4]

well, if i had to pick christianity, id pick the Aquinas-St. Francis-Gnosticism branch.

[Redruth]

Too many people believe in a lot of really rubbish (to me) and meaningless and downright harmful things because it is *easy*. Simple is not the same thing as easy, not at all. Sometimes the simplest things are hardest to understand or wrap your mind around because they are so simple.

 

 

i concur ....this is so brilliant 'boom'

 

well, if i had to pick christianity, id pick the Aquinas-St. Francis-Gnosticism branch.

 

 

 

YES! thank you....... someone who truly understands!

[Guest Masonic Boom]

What I like best about this thread is the way it inspires me to go off and read up about things like Entanglement and Attachment and Gnosticism and St. Thomas Aquinas and concepts like that. Nice food for thought on a terribly boring day at work, guys!

[Guest naos]

I hope someone will mention eastern concept of "attachment". Meaning of life or so called "enlightment" is about

to occur when a zen pupil finally leaves all of his attachments behind. His mind becomes "free" and he

obtains objective reason.

 

there's no objective reason. Enlightenment isn't about getting anything, it's about losing an illusion. But when you talk about a zen pupil leaving all their attachments behind, imo there's a nugget of truth in there - what do you think a persons greatest attachment might be?

 

I would say that persons greatest attachment is himself? lol

Let us say that our mental, instinctive and emotional routines and

habits which we learned trough culture, "morals" and education,

stop us from becoming this "oneness" you're talking about.

[SR4]

Gnostics are very underrated, and if you think about it, geographically it makes a ton of sense as to why Gnosticism is so akin to Buddhist and Hindu teachings

[Guest Masonic Boom]

I don't entirely understand gnosticism. I think I just have a kneejerk reaction against it because that whole "sacred knowledge that is only revealed to special people" just smacks to me of prehistoric indie snobbery. Though I know that's only part of it. The Dualistic aspects of it are interesting.

 

But that said, St. Francis (if we're talking of Asissi) was always one of my favourite saints when I was a Christian.

[Guest naos]

Gnostics are very underrated, and if you think about it, geographically it makes a ton of sense as to why Gnosticism is so akin to Buddhist and Hindu teachings

 

yeah, imo,

gnosticism tries to explain a lot of stuff eastern religions talk about. for example

in works like "Philokalia", a collection of writings of "Desert fathers".

[Redruth]

I hope someone will mention eastern concept of "attachment". Meaning of life or so called "enlightment" is about

to occur when a zen pupil finally leaves all of his attachments behind. His mind becomes "free" and he

obtains objective reason.

 

 

same thing is true in true Biblical teachings. Christ went around saying we need to 'give ourselves away', give everything away and only keep what is most precious,

that which can be taken with us past this physical world. things that truly matter! i wish everyone wasn't so distracted by the church

(they've done a good job in mucking Christ's good name) that they couldn't see the simplicity in moral biblical understanding

that still exists in Christ's teachings. Christ was amazingly succinct and to the point... if one chooses to read they will see he lays it all out

in all of the four gospels and countless other writings in and outside the Bible proper. most people want their spirituality to have 'convenient leniency' so that they can have room to do what

'they want' around what is expected and necessary. im sorry, but it just doesn't really work like that. right is right, and wrong is wrong. the truth is the truth and

the lifestyle that leads to enlightenment is exact and precise. there are no versions of this, it is what it is and it has been

the way that it is for thousands of years, no human can change that, they can only try to meddle with it.

 

the truth remains the same.

 

What I like best about this thread is the way it inspires me to go off and read up about things like Entanglement and Attachment and Gnosticism and St. Thomas Aquinas and concepts like that. Nice food for thought on a terribly boring day at work, guys!

[Squee]

teh fuck?

[Guest Rambo]

I would say that persons greatest attachment is himself? lol

 

Exactumondly! Of course it's yourself.

 

 

Let us say that our mental, instinctive and emotional routines and

habits which we learned trough culture, "morals" and education,

stop us from becoming this "oneness" you're talking about.

 

You don't become oneness, there's just oneness. If you could become oneness, that would mean there is two right now. There's just a very convincing illusion that you're seperate and that illusion is happening in oneness.

 

I think (not just me actually) what happens when you are really young - like before you are 2 - is that there is actually just the whole/oneness - that's all there is, but everything in your environment (mostly other people) is telling you that you are a seperate individual.

 

 

If you think about it, when you are born you have no concepts - there is just what's happening and nothing else. You are what's happening and that's how it would seem to a brain without concepts - there's just what is happening and there's nothing else to know. Then afterwards, the brain develops, in comes the personality and you are snatched away from the whole, but it's an illusion, you are never really seperate, it just seems like it.

[SR4]

I would say that persons greatest attachment is himself? lol

 

Exactumondly! Of course it's yourself.

 

 

Let us say that our mental, instinctive and emotional routines and

habits which we learned trough culture, "morals" and education,

stop us from becoming this "oneness" you're talking about.

 

You don't become oneness, there's just oneness. If you could become oneness, that would mean there is two right now. There's just a very convincing illusion that you're seperate and that illusion is happening in oneness.

 

I think (not just me actually) what happens when you are really young - like before you are 2 - is that there is actually just the whole/oneness - that's all there is, but everything in your environment (mostly other people) is telling you that you are a seperate individual.

 

 

If you think about it, when you are born you have no concepts - there is just what's happening and nothing else. You are what's happening and that's how it would seem to a brain without concepts - there's just what is happening and there's nothing else to know. Then afterwards, the brain develops, in comes the personality and you are snatched away from the whole, but it's an illusion, you are never really seperate, it just seems like it.

 

 

fuckin well said Rambo.

[Guest naos]

If you think about it, when you are born you have no concepts - there is just what's happening and nothing else. You are what's happening and that's how it would seem to a brain without concepts - there's just what is happening and there's nothing else to know. Then afterwards, the brain develops, in comes the personality and you are snatched away from the whole, but it's an illusion, you are never really seperate, it just seems like it.

 

 

This differentiation that happens in our brain is inevitable. The thing is, I guess, to try to see this

eternal pattern, and not attach to it's manifestations in the "real" world.

[Guest Masonic Boom]

I know that infantilism is all the rage at the moment, but really, I don't aspire to have the brain of a toddler.

 

Have you ever spent much time with an infant under the age of two?

 

Not to mention the fact that such wonderful lack of individuation requires the constant full-time attention of another human being to look after its most basic body functions. I'm sure that this is an appealing fantasty to some, but really not my idea of the pinacle of human spiritual achievement.

[SR4]

wow way to completely dumb down the idea.

[Guest Rambo]

you still think you are going to get something

 

@ Masonic Boom

[Redruth]

I would say that persons greatest attachment is himself? lol

 

Exactumondly! Of course it's yourself.

 

 

Let us say that our mental, instinctive and emotional routines and

habits which we learned trough culture, "morals" and education,

stop us from becoming this "oneness" you're talking about.

 

 

 

If you think about it, when you are born you have no concepts - there is just what's happening and nothing else. You are what's happening and that's how it would seem to a brain without concepts - there's just what is happening and there's nothing else to know. Then afterwards, the brain develops, in comes the personality and you are snatched away from the whole, but it's an illusion, you are never really separate, it just seems like it.

 

the child is a new beginning ...waiting to be filled with all that we have learned in the truth. that is why it is so important for us to know who we truly are before we have children. yes there is much to

be learned from children as well, but what we show are children and influence them with will add to what we learn.

 

the corruption of a child's heart and mind and the inability for most parents to truly show how the two work together ....in modern times i see this error, this epidemic as being one of the most tragic and destructive diseases.

[Guest Rambo]

Or i should say the you that you think you are

 

@ Masonic Boom again

[The Dark Lord]

The future's uncertain and the end is always near..

[Guest Masonic Boom]

wow way to completely dumb down the idea.

 

Perhaps. Or perhaps that strain of Protestant commonsense keeping me from enlightenment by constantly trying to balance these lovely soap bubble beautiful ideas with the actual dirty reality of daily life.

 

It's a struggle one walks every day in the search for meaning.

 

I enjoy philosophy, I enjoy talking about religion and philosophy but I do insist on keeping one foot on the ground and seeing how well these concepts work in daily life.

[Guest IRARI]

I know that infantilism is all the rage at the moment, but really, I don't aspire to have the brain of a toddler.

 

Have you ever spent much time with an infant under the age of two?

 

Not to mention the fact that such wonderful lack of individuation requires the constant full-time attention of another human being to look after its most basic body functions. I'm sure that this is an appealing fantasty to some, but really not my idea of the pinacle of human spiritual achievement.

 

i agree with you... have you ever noticed how an infant constantly wants things repeated if they enjoy them? there's no discernment

yes with discernment comes disillusionment but i'd rather be verifiably and experientially wise than simply open to any and everything

[Redruth]

I know that infantilism is all the rage at the moment, but really, I don't aspire to have the brain of a toddler.

 

Have you ever spent much time with an infant under the age of two?

 

Not to mention the fact that such wonderful lack of individuation requires the constant full-time attention of another human being to look after its most basic body functions. I'm sure that this is an appealing fantasty to some, but really not my idea of the pinacle of human spiritual achievement.

 

i agree with you... have you ever noticed how an infant constantly wants things repeated if they enjoy them? there's no discernment

yes with discernment comes disillusionment but i'd rather be verifiably and experientially wise than simply open to any and everything

 

 

 

i really like what you said here, honestly IRARI.

 

( hopefully you won't start tossing shit at me again, i honestly mean this, what you said is true.)

[Guest naos]

wow way to completely dumb down the idea.

 

Perhaps. Or perhaps that strain of Protestant commonsense keeping me from enlightenment by constantly trying to balance these lovely soap bubble beautiful ideas with the actual dirty reality of daily life.

 

It's a struggle one walks every day in the search for meaning.

 

I enjoy philosophy, I enjoy talking about religion and philosophy but I do insist on keeping one foot on the ground and seeing how well these concepts work in daily life.

 

word.

it wasn't your choice to accept these ways of ordinary life. you learned to deal with them mostly

trough passive learning. Trying to see how these intelectual and emocional mechanisms work means

to know yourself better. And sometimes, this requires a certain type of attention.

I'm talking about inner manifestations of changes in physical world.

[Guest Masonic Boom]

I've read quite a lot of books about neuroscience (Oliver Sacks and that sort of thing) where there are actually case studies of people who have had brain injuries whereby people lose their ability to form new memories or access any old memories except procedural ones. They are reduced, essentially, to this eternal instant of NOW.

 

Yet the descriptions report that these people do not find this a wonderful, blissful state, they actually find it highly confusing and often terrifying.

 

So I guess my attitude towards people trying to attain that state of spiritual Enlightenment is that it is actually the *path* that is important. Many things that many religions reccomend - meditation, self reflection, not being overly distracted by materialism for the sake of materialism, good works, etc. etc. - as the way to enlightenment or heaven or whatever the goal - they are Good Things that are worth doing because of the inherent worth of doing them. Rather than this philosophical carrot of enlightenment or nirvana or heaven or whatever it is you are promised at the end.