chassis Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 So we were talking about electrical energy in college lately. All about the growth in electricity and how sometimes its the most efficient way to transfer energy and in other instances its its not. But the subject of storing electrical energy came up a few times and the lecturer got distracted he did say its not possible to store electrical energy efficiently enough for large amounts. Why the fuck is that? I mean sure some sort of massive capacitor could be made and would solve the whole load/demand deal. I tried to fine a similar question on Yahoo answers but the best answer was "You can store electrical energy in batteries". Which is completely retarded so I thought I'd ask here. Also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive4 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 are you seriously expecting a simple, dumbed down answer to such the topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 are you seriously expecting a simple, dumbed down answer to such the topic? No Im expecting a pretty inclusive one. Doesnt need to be pages if someone could point me towards some literature that'd be cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Enter a new display name Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 In fact, there is a way to store an incredible amount of electricity. I copied-pasted a long article about it, so I had to hide the text in spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 *Waits for real answer* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi_B Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I work for an electric company, they are currently installing a giant solar panel grid. Will axe someone about this tomorrow, and get laughed at, but try to get an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 I work for an electric company, they are currently installing a giant solar panel grid. Will axe someone about this tomorrow, and get laughed at, but try to get an answer. Cheers. Which electrical company might I ask? A major one? It just seems to be taken for granted and no one has ever told me why. Surely this would be a decent area for advancement. I was thinking of how you might do it and the only thing I could think of was like a giant capacitor with a honeycomb structure to maximize the surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 entropy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yegg Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 If you mean storing large volumes of electricity in batteries then I would imagine that it has to do with the stability of the chemicals inside. My impression is that the larger a battery is, the more cells it has which makes it more unstable. Other indirect ways of storing electrical energy would be like a dam, which isn't really limited in how much energy it could store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 entropy Thats the answer to every question. If you mean storing large volumes of electricity in batteries then I would imagine that it has to do with the stability of the chemicals inside. My impression is that the larger a battery is, the more cells it has which makes it more unstable. Other indirect ways of storing electrical energy would be like a dam, which isn't really limited in how much energy it could store. But batteries change it into chemical energy and the losses there would be great(I presume). I'm talking more like storing direct electrical energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Park Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Ultracapacitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yegg Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Not really, I mean a capacitor uses the same principle as a battery to store charge but it's passive. If anything a capacitor is a lot more limited in its size than a battery. You mean like catch a lightning bolt in a jar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Ultracapacitors Technology -> Disadvantages: * High self-discharge - the rate is considerably higher than that of an electrochemical battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 Ultracapacitors Yeah Ive heard of these. Im sorry my OP wasnt very clear. I was talking on a large scale i.e Power Grid kinda stuff. All this stuff, would suggest theyre not very suitable for grid lines. DisadvantagesThe amount of energy stored per unit weight is considerably lower than that of an electrochemical battery (3-5 W·h/kg for an ultracapacitor as of 2010[citation needed] compared to 30-40 W·h/kg for a lead acid battery), and about 1/10,000th the volumetric energy density of gasoline. Low working voltage As with any capacitor, the voltage varies with the energy stored. Effective storage and recovery of energy requires complex electronic control and switching equipment, with consequent losses of energy Has the highest dielectric absorption of any type of capacitor. High self-discharge - the rate is considerably higher than that of an electrochemical battery. Cells have low voltages - serial connections are needed to obtain higher voltages. Voltage balancing is required if more than three capacitors are connected in series. Linear discharge voltage prevents use of the full energy spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 Not really, I mean a capacitor uses the same principle as a battery to store charge but it's passive. If anything a capacitor is a lot more limited in its size than a battery. You mean like catch a lightning bolt in a jar? I'll try to explain. When the electrical power companies generate power they send it instantaneously down the cables to who ever maybe using it. When the get a high demand for energy they have to generate more electrical energy. When there is a lower demand they have to lower the amount that they generate. What Im asking is: Why cant you generate a load of energy whenever you want, meet the demand and store any supplementary energy in some sort of storage device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule's_laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yegg Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 ^Good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule's_laws I know what Joule's laws are. But still after that refresher course of a page, I'm still no more enlightened. Are you saying the heating effect is an issue? Maybe I need some sleep to make my brain do think good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hahathhat Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 giant capacitors seem like an overly long-winded answer to a need best served by a small pile of radioactive shit slowly burned to make steam by a bunch of men in clipboards edit: flywheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule's_laws I know what Joule's laws are. But still after that refresher course of a page, I'm still no more enlightened. Are you saying the heating effect is an issue? Maybe I need some sleep to make my brain do think good. electric energy tends to become heat through time because of entropy superconductors might store electricity for a longer time because R=0, but you'd have to use a lot of liquid nitrogen/helium to keep them cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the anonymous forumite Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 I'm just being all smart and posting in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 giant capacitors seem like an overly long-winded answer to a need best served by a small pile of radioactive shit slowly burned to make steam by a bunch of men in clipboards edit: flywheels Men with clipboards who fuck up and make it a massive unihabitable wasteland for millions of years. But i wasnt really talking about Nuclear plants anyway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule's_laws I know what Joule's laws are. But still after that refresher course of a page, I'm still no more enlightened. Are you saying the heating effect is an issue? Maybe I need some sleep to make my brain do think good. electric energy tends to become heat through time because of entropy superconductors might store electricity for a longer time because R=0, but you'd have to use a lot of liquid nitrogen/helium to keep them cool Ahh, that makes perfect sense. But how long does electrical energy need to be sitting there before it dissipates(correct term?). Also, superconductors and liquid nitrogen are awesome. We got to fuck around with them in the lab. Just thought I'd add that in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Ahh, that makes perfect sense. But how long does electrical energy need to be sitting there before it dissipates(correct term?). Also, superconductors and liquid nitrogen are awesome. We got to fuck around with them in the lab. Just thought I'd add that in. well, that depends on the material's resistance in which you're storing electricity and the amount of current through the material (see Joule's laws wiki). The higher the one those is, the shorter you can store electricity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassis Posted February 20, 2010 Author Share Posted February 20, 2010 What about an insulated capacitor? Im just chucking around ideas here. 0 current = 0 resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Super lurker ultra V12 Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 What about an insulated capacitor? Im just chucking around ideas here. 0 current = 0 resistance. that would heat the capacitor thus increasing its resistance (ρ=(1+α)ΔT or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistivity#Temperature_dependence ) 0 resistance doesn't always imply 0 current Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.