chim Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 i'm getting cash this week and planning to get at least a microkorg or something. basically i'm at complete lack of knowledge of how hardware works, how would I go about connecting things, what exactly do I need? do i need a mixer thing? and what kind of cords/cables would i need? i'm not talking specifically about the microkorg now but also how most synths and hardware things work. and what'd be the best way to record a synth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goffer Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 If you are just getting a synth all you really need are some headphones. For starter hardware i'd go with the Korg EMX or ESX 'cause they have both synth and drums and they are pretty cheep. I got my ESX with a pair of studio speakers for $650. Once you get the hang of it go on and get a microkorg or whatever tickles your under belly. As for plugging everything in... it all works on ins/outs. If you get some speakers you'd take a 1/4" cable and run it from the out on the machine to the in on the speaker, get it? To record its the same.. take a 1/4" cable and run it from the out on the machine to the MIC port on your PC/sound card, you might need a 1/4"-1/8" adapter though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man with no name Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 you need a decent audio interface if you plan on recording your synth's output. If you plan on getting more synths in the future, then you should get an audio interface with more than 1 input. Also, get a midi interface if you suck at playing the keys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Magoo Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 yeah those korgs are at best, for drums and synth, then get a microkorg and trust me an midi to usb cable, so you can use your synth keys as keys on a soft synth :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 ideally what you might want is a small mixer (you can pick up a mackie 1402vlz for about £120 on ebay) - send your soundcard outputs into a few channels, send your synth(/s) into a few spare channels - send the mixer outputs to your amp when you want to record your mixes you've got a few options - if you've got monitor and main outputs on your desk then you can connect your mixer out's into your soundcard in's, and record into your sequencer while you mixdown - or you can buy a CDR or DAT (DAT is a great medium), or run your amp record output into your soundcard/recorder even a cheap little Mackie desk, with limited EQ, will help your sound a lot (imo)... just running your s/w mix through some analog circuitry de-lineates everything - softens harsh high frequencies - has a very subtle, but very beneficial effect on your mixes a lot of ppl don't appreciate this, because if you've spent endless hours/weeks/years working native, you get used to the cold, digital sound, and ppl tend to prefer things they're familiar with... but it's like getting used to drinking water which is full of lead - it's not good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thisket Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I recommend the microkorg. Very good for exploring the bits and pieces of analog & synthesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 m i d i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aeser Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 in general it's good to have a mixer to mix the outputs of your hardware and either a decent soundcard with good stereo inputs to record the output of the mixer, or several inputs to record the mixer track for track into the computer, or an external recorder to record the output of the mixer. this is why hardware is a bitch to deal with. you open a can of worms and there's really no end to the money you can spend. whereas with software all you need is a computer and some cracked software. i started buying electronic music gear when it was difficult to do in software, the vst's were not that great and the systems couldn't handle much so i spent a lot on hardware, now i feel like a fucking sucker and i just use software for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shining Rock Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 i've been saving up some cash recently and was thinking about making a purchase in the electronic music hardware realm (little of which i know about). the only real piece of hardware i own separate from my computer software is a midi controller, what would you guys recommend as the next logical step for a beginner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 okay.. i'm thinking about a behringer eurorack. should all the inputs be stereo? I don't want to go above roughly 100 bucks for a mixer. i'm thinking about this one, MXB1002: http://www.musikborsen.se/itm_img/big_58258.jpg what about cables? and 1/4 1/8? Is 1/8 the usual soundcard in thing? I might need a new soundcard because mine isn't the latest and greatest. my speakers aren't studio monitors but they are quite good, 5 small ones 5.1 sound, i dont think ill have to replace them right away the EMX/ESX doesnt seem to be around in any of the music shops i've checked online. oh, and what's an amp? i've only managed to gather it's the final output thing.. could you recommend a good one? i'd rather go for cheap than absolute top notch, it doesn't have to be perfect. right now i'm thinking what kind of drum machine i should go for if i have the microkorg. or if I should get another synth. I'm probably going to get at least 2 synths, but I'm not sure what a good complement to the microkorg could be.. and it could probably be more expensive, 1000 bucks maybe at most? edit: I don't think i need a midi to usb thing because I already have a midi controller that i use for reason and vst's and shit. But do i need a firewire card thing/midi input or something else? Besides this I'm getting (for free) a yamaha keyboard from 98 and an analogue electric organ thing from the 60's: http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5029/gemf108vh.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aeser Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 going below $100 for a mixer is going to get you a mixer not worth having, i'd say stick to software, it will sound much better than what you can get for that price and be more flexible and is way cheaper than a hardware setup able to do 1/10th as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 you probably meant 1000$ for the mixer right? i mean... is there really such thing as a mixer for under 500$? as for the second synth i'd recommend a cheap small monophonic. for the fat greasy basslines. microkorg is polyphonic right? that should cover some pads or strings or whatever... then you'll like some bass and analogue bass synth a good thing. like some of the yamaha's CS series. or maybe even a roland's jx-3p which is polyphonic but can still do good bass sounds. i think they can both go pretty cheap. although you'l probably have to go CV/gate for a monophonic synth and it's a bitch if you're just starting out on hardware :) maybe the best thing to start would be to get a decent mixer and a decent soundcard (like a rme or sth like that) - with at least 4mono inputs and 4mono outputs (but really much better would be 8/8). you can then still use VSTs for synths and rhythm tracks but you mix outboard on the mixer and then bounce it back into the computer. i think of it as a cheap way to start a hardware rig. you learn some mixing, you get the hang of the specific mixer, you find out what interests you the most and can decide on the next investitions much better... such a step can change your musical directions pretty radically so maybe you'll find out you want to have a fully modular analog. but most likely you'll buy a few effects next :) oh and if you have a 5.1 system then you don't need an amp. amp is an amplifier and that's a box (like in hifi systems) that amplifies the line signal and sends it to the speakers. but most of the computer 5.1 systems already have that built in so you just feed the line level signal into them (straight from the mixer). OR you can get an active mixer (has a built-in amp) OR (best) you can get a pair of active monitors (same - they already have amps in them) - that'll give you the best sound by far. don't expect to make a good mix on a computer 5.1 speakerset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 1000$ for a mixer? what the fuck dude, youre saying i need to get something like this? http://www.musikborsen.se/itm_img/big_58267.jpg well basically i have about 3500 USD (converted) to spend. i'd just like to get started with hardware, it's something i really really want to do. synths is the major thing. effects etc is probably abit overkill right now, but it's definitely something i could consider eventually. My parents are easy to convince so i could possibly get more financial help getting the things i need. How would the money be best spent in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 i just wrote you in detail. 1. mixer + sound interface (as many IO as you can afford) 2. one polysynth by then you'll know where you want to go. and i really can't imagine what mixer can you get for 100$... you'll at least want 12 channels, two groups, 2 aux sends, channel 3 band eq w/sweepable mids. sooner or later you'll need a mixer for 1000$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 yeah i guess.. i'm just abit uneasy about spending the greater part of the money on the "boring" stuff. looks like i'll have to get a new soundcard and studiomonitors. but RME soundcards, dude, the cheapest ones are like 1500-1700 grand. wait i might have misread that , a fireface interface thing costs that much. there are some soundcards that actually seem to be affordable. like 2-300 at most. do you think that's a reasonable price range? edit: oh and yeah, should i get an internal or external one? external seems better but i dunno. looking at the RME REAEB8O or something like this: http://www.musikborsen.se/itm_img/big_155526.jpg 4/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 i'd say external (not necesserily firewir) cause maybe someday you'll want to carry it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 yeah.. firewire seems to be the shit, when i was at the store to buy my midi controller keyboard the guy was raving about firewire. i'm just kind of at a loss how it works, if i'd need anything special.. like cables and shit? Oh and yeah, what kind of mixer table would you recommend? mackie? here's one for roughly 800: http://www.musikborsen.se/itm_img/big_164444.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 you should be able to pick up a mackie vlz or spirit m-8 or something for about £100-150 on ebay the quality is superb - i've got a mackie 8-buss and toft (at the studio), and obviously they give you huge amounts of headroom and clarity, but the cheap mackie is of very comparable performance and actually sounds a fair bit warmer (than the 8-buss) you can get professional quality mixing for very cheap these days - kirk diorgio, ken ishii, carbon based lifeforms, etc... all use high-end gear like pro tools HD and analog modulars, mixed through small-format desks like the m-8 and vlz's a mixing desk's the most important piece of h/w you can own - you've already got s/w mixing anyway, so you can use a desk to sum busses and add harmonic content, and you also get a completely different type of EQ which can help take the edge off digital EQ and add tone/colour i've never achieved, or heard anyone else achieve, a good bass sound mixed in software.. there's all sorts of wierd maths that go into digital mixing, like the tracks are split into pairs and the smaller signal of the two is used as the divide factor, then the larger channel is scaled down relative to that, and with any division or multiplication which isn't a perfect square number, you're getting linear mathematical distortions (rounding errors), and so on on paper, the headroom you get mixing 32-bit float is comparrable to a good desk - but in practice it's a different story altogether yeah, microkorg could be a good piece of kit to get started with... anything which gives you different tones and colours to s/w instruments will give you more options and help you open your sound up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 you should be able to pick up a mackie vlz or spirit m-8 or something for about £100-150 on ebay the quality is superb - i've got a mackie 8-buss and toft (at the studio), and obviously they give you huge amounts of headroom and clarity, but the cheap mackie is of very comparable performance and actually sounds a fair bit warmer (than the 8-buss) you can get professional quality mixing for very cheap these days - kirk diorgio, ken ishii, carbon based lifeforms, etc... all use high-end gear like pro tools HD and analog modulars, mixed through small-format desks like the m-8 and vlz's a mixing desk's the most important piece of h/w you can own - you've already got s/w mixing anyway, so you can use a desk to sum busses and add harmonic content, and you also get a completely different type of EQ which can help take the edge off digital EQ and add tone/colour i've never achieved, or heard anyone else achieve, a good bass sound mixed in software.. there's all sorts of wierd maths that go into digital mixing, like the tracks are split into pairs and the smaller signal of the two is used as the divide factor, then the larger channel is scaled down relative to that, and with any division or multiplication which isn't a perfect square number, you're getting linear mathematical distortions (rounding errors), and so on on paper, the headroom you get mixing 32-bit float is comparrable to a good desk - but in practice it's a different story altogether yeah, microkorg could be a good piece of kit to get started with... anything which gives you different tones and colours to s/w instruments will give you more options and help you open your sound up thanks for your reply moon. VLZ is abit smaller but seems cool, and heck, CBL are one of my favourite groups, and they're swedish too! 8 buss, that means 8 channels right? heres a vlz with 6 mono and 4 stereo.. the fact that the majority of the channels are mono is making me feel abit uneasy. http://www.musikborsen.se/itm_img/med_105935.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 CBL are great! they get the balance between digital clarity and analog warmth just right imo yeah i've got one of those 1402VLZ's - the mono channels can be used in pairs, hard panned left and right, to make stereo channels... the good thing about this is you can adjust the stereo field by how you pan them in some ways i prefer it to my 8-buss - obviously the EQ's limited, so i do 90% of my EQ'ing with Voxengo plug-ins, but it's really useful for adding bass and top-end - but it's got this warm, dark, slightly fuzzy sound which works great with ambient music and breakbeats... the more expensive desks like the 8-buss can be so clean that they don't really take the edge off digital mixes enough on their own - vlz does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 CBL are great! they get the balance between digital clarity and analog warmth just right imo yeah i've got one of those 1402VLZ's - the mono channels can be used in pairs, hard panned left and right, to make stereo channels... the good thing about this is you can adjust the stereo field by how you pan them in some ways i prefer it to my 8-buss - obviously the EQ's limited, so i do 90% of my EQ'ing with Voxengo plug-ins, but it's really useful for adding bass and top-end - but it's got this warm, dark, slightly fuzzy sound which works great with ambient music and breakbeats... the more expensive desks like the 8-buss can be so clean that they don't really take the edge off digital mixes enough on their own - vlz does that sounds great, so i guess maybe i'll be looking into getting one of those. and yeah the more charm the better. that really is an important part in my opinion, constantly working with s/w kind of kills the whole spirit and fun of synths, which is why i want to get into hardware and really get a hands on feel. it may sound silly but it feels like a huge issue for me. i can't wait to try out the old 60's synth that should show up this monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 don't worry about having to spend money to get results... the cheap mainstream'ey stuff is often quite unimpressive, but there's always clever buys and smart money CBL only use M-Audio soundcards and budget mackie mixers - and their recordings sound 1000x better than most electronic music/ambient stuff you hear (sure you'll agree) i use an emagic emi 2/6 soundcard (2ins 6outs and digital in and out), which cost me £60 and sounds better (to my ears) than my Motu 828mkii (which has really cold sounding pre-amps) sneaker pimps used emi 2/6's in preference to apogee's - so you see, there's no such thing as good and bad - just different sounds for different tastes having said that - when it comes to cheap mixers and monitors, i'd recommend steering clear of behringer, samson and tannoy... the behringer desks are generally too noisey and unreliable, and don't sound great - it's really spirit and mackie who own the cheap-end of the mixer market - the kind of performance you get from a vlz or m-8 now would've cost £thousands a decade or so ago but yeah, my whole portable setup cost me about £200 for the mixer and soundcard together - from ebay - and then £20 or so for some phono leads, some phono -> jack convertors and some 1/4 jack leads add another £50 on that for a midisport 2x2 USB interface very cheap! and if i go back to the RME and 8-buss, it's a different sound, but not really better or worse days like today i am so glad i've got a few h/w synths... i do love absynth and albino and reaktor, and i use them all the time - but you know, sometimes you just need solid, simple pads and bass sounds, and i just don't like the sound of s/w instruments when you're using them raw like that, and i get too frustrated working with them for long sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 yeah i agree on the behringer... it feels an sounds like a cheap plastic toy. so moon you agree with me that he's best off buying a mixer and interface first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 yeah i'd have thought so - you know, as long as you're totally set on doing it - i think it's just too much hassle working with h/w without some flexible mixing and routing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted May 6, 2006 Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 thanks a ton for your help guys, it means a whole lot. I guess I'll be looking into some mackie's instead of behringer monitors. I'll let you know what kind of setup I'll be aiming for. edit: hmm.. the mackie ones are quite expensive, like 800 a speaker :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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