may be rude
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Posts posted by may be rude
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On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:
but at this time, again my opinion, seems that anyone that is still supporting the R party right now is a truly lost cause.
they're victims of deceit. i think it's dangerous to spread ideas like people being lost causes
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:there is no amount of correct or truthful information in the world that may be able to bring these folks back to reality.
unfortunately, for many victims of deceit, it truly will be quite the difficult endeavor to unfuck their minds. i think we have never been in this place before, with regard to the exact type of brainwashing that has been deployed at scale. it's the zombie apocalypse
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:therefore any sort of persuasion is going to fall on deaf ears.
here you make a sweeping generalization that we both know is not precisely accurate. some people can be persuaded to change how they would cast a vote. it may be around 1% but it is not 0 people.
also, demobilizing the right helps and can occur, which is not a full persuasion conversion but it is a degree of impact that can be significant.
also, you may be missing that GOTV events provide a list of specific people to contact with known party affiliation and other data on them. we are not randomly approaching anyone. we're mobilizing dems
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:I don't think these people are looking for truth/reality as you've indicated...they are happy being spoon fed more lies from maga man and the rest.
i have to point out the generalization again. but yeah many people would be difficult to persuade, unfortunately. not because they have good or accurate reasoning, just because their minds are the target these days and the assault is massive
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:I'm not going to respond to the rest of your points, as you seem to be taking somewhat of a defensive stance on some of it, as if I'm trying to somehow prove you wrong.
you did come out rather insulting and casting negative aspersions on an activity that is not only appropriate and positive but actually direly needed. i'm not upset i'm just addressing your points wihch were in many places off-base, and i wanted to clarify.
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:I wanted to toss out something I viewed as taking a critical thinking stance on the question of whether or not will the activities you promoted by posting a link actually have the intended result?
yeah no i get that and i appreciate the discussion.
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:I mean I think it is totally bonkers that anyone would vote for the R party at this point in time. the fact that the R/D divide in this country is still nearly 50% is insane to me. if we are stuck with this 2 party system, then you show up and vote for the lesser of 2 evils is how I view it.
people don't appreciate what's going on. info is invisible so we don't realize the massive shift in the environment. it's as though the sky transformed into something else, over the last 20 years. the flood is really fucking things. we are forced to create a new way for people to be informed. i hope it doesn't take a hundred years
On 11/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, zero said:politics in general is a farce. half truths and empty promises fed to people by politicians in order to keep the population in these happy bubbles of self centered thinking. they know most peoples minds are corruptible. they feed them with the kool aid they need to slog through existence. then end of the day, everyone is still unhappy or scared about the future. there is no true problem solving in politics, only pass the buck, and keep the system fed, so the next member of the team can step up and replace the current leader.
the way I see it is there's either truth or there's bullshit. it's that simple. live your live according to facts and truth, and you're better off because of it. believe in lies and bullshit, then your life is going to be a mess.
the sweeping generalizations are not healthy. the most virtuous person you ever met in your life could run for office and win. some elected officials are similarly virtuous.
i will grant you that they will always be politicians, by definition. but that's a tautological argument. they are going to be accustomed to talking their way around to the talking points they want to hit, and talking their way out of talking points they don't want to talk about. so that is one of the things that makes it hard for people to figure out what's going on. the messaging always has that aspect to it. but that's just the nature of the domain. and that does not mean that "everything is lies" which frankly is ridiculous and childish. that is the lie, spreading that idea...
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1 hour ago, zero said:
sociology time... serious question, not just trying to be flippant or start a fight, but what do you really think a bunch of like minded individuals in group A, are going to be able to do at this point to sway the individuals in group B?
at this point it's more about mobilization than persuasion. making sure people actually show up and vote.
1 hour ago, zero said:these events strike me as symbolic, showing strength in force...that there are a lot of people that believe in this group minded thinking rather than that other stuff the other group says. and of course try and paint the other group as the bad group (rightfully so).
weird characterization. activists are individuals operating on the world. in ways it's the opposite of group thinking. each activist is working to push for the change they want. raising awareness is often the thing that's needed, and this is where people cold calling or knocking can achieve impact. if you live in a town and canvased weekly for a year you would have spoken with much of the town. that's how many people get started and run for office.
1 hour ago, zero said:I'd be very interested to know the effect of events such as this on the people left outside of either group. will it really bring over to team dem the undecided voters at this point?
by event i meant an organizer running a phone bank or something, just to be clear.
like i said, at this point it's more about mobilization. but yeah persuasion can occur, yes. it's as easy as mentioning information. the thing is that we all have different information. it's all flooded and fucked. so yeah just telling people some things you think are important can make an impression on them. of course many people haven't made up their minds! are you kidding? sure i get how some could say people have made up their minds but i call bullshit on that. it's all so complex that no one even knows what's going on. people know that they don't know something for sure, if they are really being honest with themselves. so, i know that people are able to be interested in what is reality.
1 hour ago, zero said:using events as a mass advertising campaign to get those who may be too lazy to care, to get up and vote for the group deemed as more sane right now?
again, weird characterization and i'm not sure what kind of event you're imagining. i'm talking about stuff like phone banks or canvases or whatever the fuck. go talk to people on discord.
1 hour ago, zero said:or will the undecided show up for the spectacle of the event, then return back to not giving a shit by the time election day happens.
no you don't really know what you're talking about. click the link mobilize.us
1 hour ago, zero said:I guess what I'm thinking is it seems past the point of trying to use logic or common sense to get the message across to anyone on the R side of things.
see above regarding mobilization and it being possible to inform people of stuff they will find interesting when doing persuasion
1 hour ago, zero said:so these events will really have no effect on that group. the undecided, or uninterested voters do represent a valid slice of the populace worth trying to get seeing the viewpoint of the most sane group - and vote dem on election day.
i guess millions of activists have it wrong and there's no reason to do anything or raise awareness or communicate about things you think are important related to collective self-governance
1 hour ago, zero said:just trying to think from all sides here... my opinion of course is that a vote for R indicates you no longer subscribe to a truth based existence, you are lost in a mental cluster of bullshit you no longer have the mental capacity to cancel out. non factual information has been washed over you so many times, you are brainwashed, susceptible to all sort of looney toon fantasies not rooted anywhere close to reality.
heh. again, just making the difference between that 20% of people who were gonna say "fuck it" on election day and not show up actually just being 10% of people saying "fuck it" that's 10% swing in your vote tally. so yeah mobilization is huge right now. they call it get out the vote
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anyone living in a US state and wanting to help, www.mobilize.us is where you can search for official campaign events for action in your area, where you can help people understand their choices and get ready to vote.
the house is the game. dems need to keep the house. gop doesn't know how to fix inflation, they caused it with their shitshow of a covid response. biden entered office with a country driven into the ground. similar to the handoff from bush to obama: global economic freefall, caused by republican policies.
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On 10/22/2022 at 3:12 PM, rek said:
sure, but both sides have the same vitriol for each other. the error is believing any of it. when people become true believers they get invested and dig in to their positions. the two sides as i see it (not that i pretend my opinion matters, unless it's the wrong one of course,) one 'side' is dominated by feelings and the other is dominated by logic. it's the hemispheres of the brain really, and they work best if they work together, but now they are dividing. it's melon chop time.
truth exists. i don't totally trust anyone. i resolve discrepancies and figure out what's real. some elected officials are better than others and right now the difference is enormous and the worse side is out there trying to make people think it's all the same. you're hijacked, spreading that shit
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it will be important that people act correctly. we're already in a period of political violence. trump apparently is forcing doj to indict him by continuing to not return some documents. and he will dog whistle call for violence (already has).
very unfortunate and unnecessary. trump killed ashley babbit.
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18 minutes ago, randomsummer said:
"Knowing" and right / wrong implies we are talking about facts. A large part of this, IMO, is people voting on their beliefs regarding issues where there is no objective right or wrong. Conservatism vs. liberalism, is one right and one wrong? Politicians and media have turned this into a game, pitting each side against the other so that they can make money off of us clicking and watching all the time. In turn, we have lost the willingness to compromise on these "gray" issues, and that is a HUGE problem.
some political topics have some subjective opinion involved but for many there is objective fact.
also this election is not about classic topics like social security. this is about preserving the democracy.
inconvenient truths are disputed by those they are inconvenient for. that doesn't make everything opinion.
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turns out the final frontier is hearts and minds
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6 hours ago, rek said:
i guess, but "both" the red and the blue side (false dichotomy but i digress) are fervently sure they are right and the other is wrong, nobody who is on one or the other side is trying to change their mind either.
oh, i think i know what you mean. society needs to focus more on debate. getting both sides next to each other and resolving the discrepancies. definitely.
bubbles are a feature of the new info space.
there are people who engage, cross-silo. i'm out here, doing it. plenty of activists going around doing persuasion, this october.
also, not everyone is fervently sure they're right. actually that's a key thing. people know when they don't know. even these victims of organized gaslighting. some snap and go on mass shootings. they feel the disconnect in their soul, even if the brainwashing is of cutting-edge sophistication. they know they don't know. i know i know. there are many things that are just clear to me and about which i am certain, regarding politics. so i actually have direct and definite experience of being certain and being able to perceive that the other side is not. the right is utterly swarmed with malicious deception right now. the victims know they don't know. the bullshitters know they don't know (or know they're lying). what the deceived may be driven by is actually not certainty but cynicism. they're told it's all lies and everyone lies and it doesn't matter, and that enables them to be frivolous and to pass along narratives they have not verified.
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2 hours ago, rek said:
'both' 'sides' say the other 'side' is 'bad' and each 'good model citizen' is certain of that, based on 'facts'
they'll defend those 'facts' till they quit or they die, all the while imagining there was some line somewhere that divided red and blue
the line dissolves either before or after death.
wow, poetic.
hey, truth exists. if people disagree then maybe someone is wrong? just throwing that out there
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14 hours ago, zero said:On 10/18/2022 at 2:32 PM, trying to be less rude said:
ignoring politics is what they want you to do
politics is mostly blowing smoke up constituents ass. say whatever the fuck to get elected, then make up excuses when the shit doesn't play out because of blockading from the other side. look what politics has been whittled down to in this country. we have one party that has drank the bat shit kool aid, and is no longer a viable option for any sane individual. so then we have the other party, the dems, which are now looked at as the harvey dent white knights of the land, and they don't seem to have their shit together. so there really isn't any option to truly vote for what most individuals want, like the peaceful harmonious shit most of us know is necessary to survive as a species. just fight one side vs. the other, and it goes nowhere. believe what you want, but humans truly suck at leading other humans. that's why its best just to tune it all out, and listen to only yourself. listening to these fuck nuts is what gets everyone all messed up to begin with.
the difference between the parties, in reality, could not be more stark. for one party, roughly most of the members in congress participated in helping a tyrant attempt to deal a fatal blow to american freedom. this is fascism. this is power for power's sake, by any means. you say the dems "don't seem to have their shit together" and so you don't know who to vote for or don't see the difference? i have to tell you that you are not getting good information. i recommend AP News and CBC World News. these dems who you think don't seem to have their shit together are the ones who made the difference in whether or not america now is a fascist dystopia. they saved it. they had their shit together enough to do that, and i could go on with positive things they do.
however, there is tons of information noise, which really does a pretty good job of preventing people from getting in touch with reality. would you be surprised to learn that deceptive tricks are played on people to mislead them about dems? would you be surprised to learn that in the last 10-15 years, as a result of the shift to the internet, people are falling for deceptive narratives at a concerning level, these days? because that's the case. people believe a lot of junk about the dems that is inaccurate. so, if someone gripes about dems to you, don't just assume they know what they're talking about. it's not unlikley that they are believing manufactured narratives intended to sour them on voting for dems.
proportionality is the crux. this is how deceivers get people. the big picture is so big that 99% of people don't have it. there are always narratives that can be used to bend someone's ear. some operators are good at just flooding lists of misleading blurbs that lead people to an intended conclusion simply by curating a selection of plausible suggestions. 2 maybes does not equal one definite. This is the vulnerability. You can list 50 curated maybes in front of someone, selected to produce an intended sentiment in that person. it works. even when it's a lot of bs.
honestly that's the only thing preventing 80% of voters from voting dem. bullshit. there's no reason to vote for the gop at the national level in the US in 2022. none. and there are extremely dire reasons to vote blue. if everyone were magically informed accurately about everything, the gop would have like 5% of seats in congress
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it sounds like a windowlicker sequel, and you know he would do another windowlicker with a burner name. it even has windowlicker sounds
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ignoring politics is what they want you to do
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17 hours ago, rek said:
what does Russia want Ukraine for? isn't Russia big enough already?
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4 hours ago, ignatius said:
shit is grim as ever.
putin probably wants to grind the army down to nothing so the collapse he plans to flee from won't have a force that can keep order and will be as chaotic as possible
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vote blue please, because fascism sucks
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by the way i think exitonly's theory is the most interesting and probably right
54 minutes ago, exitonly said:i definitely dont have any hard beliefs on this subject but one theory i read that seemed interesting was that putin sabotaged the pipelines because it would cut off leverage of his enemies in the kremlin. a big justification for a coup would be to get the pipeline up and cash flows going again and now that is gone.
also seems plausible that the US did it but i really really hop not because it seems like the consequences locally and abroad would be huge if it got pinned on us
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25 minutes ago, GORDO said:
Everyone knows circles are not from earth, nother nature makes hexagons. Circles are shapes brought to our world by hyperdimensional beings.
The US has a history of profiteering from war as doctrine.
As long as it doesn't reach their land they're a-ok with war, selling weapons and financing reconstruction.
a lot of things can be found in history. let's put that in perspective. right now world leaders are anxiously working to prevent world war 3, the aggression for which has come from russia. the narrative of us involvement in the oil line bomb is divorced from reality and only lands for the uninformed.
the nature of war is uncontrollability and no one knows that better than national security professionals. in the modern age and involving the nations being discussed, a major conflict literally risks civilization as we know it. this internet narrative makes no sense. oh, hey coincidence, it scapegoats the US just like the russian disinfo currently surging through the internet
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"look, a circle"
"mm. ufos"
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Honestly the thinking that the US would possibly do this is more like a James Bond plot then anything actual National Security Professionals would ever consider. No one wants World War III even the boogeyman the US
edit: actually Putin seems to like the idea of being in a war
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3 hours ago, chim said:
Totally convinced it was a joint Nato thing with the US as a key figure.
this is fan fiction
3 hours ago, chim said:Some online ship tracker sleuths found out that US Navy in the area turned off their AIS tracking around that time, which is really suspect.
this is very week support and the best support you offer
3 hours ago, chim said:To pull this off in shallow waters, undetected, is almost unfathomable.
it was detected. explosions were measured and ships were seen in the area (russian ships)
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i too have not heard it but will opine. i think it is good
draft 20.22
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12 hours ago, phudoshin said:
Out here on the edge of Western Europe, I seem to be the only one of my friends, family, colleagues following the slow legal downfall of Trump and co. I find it absolutely fascinating - the level of the clownshow, the depths of his egregiousness ... its better than any series and the most schadenfreude thing. But nobody seems interested.. everyones jaded and doesn't want to think about the orange idiot and thinks he'll just get away with it... or i just get "why do you care?". Eh hello - its basic human drama on a MASSIVE scale... the lies, the schemes, the grift... a President being so criminal.
The DOJ is slow and being super meticulous..trying to make it airtight. They're playing a blinder with their tactics on the special master front too. Ive seen every Jan 6th hearing too... just to hear sense been spoken is amazing. I think he'll go down..... the maga/Qanon folks will fizzle away. surely this kind of stupidity can't survive. Am I naïve AF?
100% absolutely. surrealist madness going on. it's looking an awful lot like trump will be indicted for espionage. and then there's all the rest of it. the coup and his attack on ukraine etc.
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13 hours ago, Extralife said:
I’ll try to send them in a bit when I get back to my computer.
I’m kind of ignorant in these matters - I’m assuming the artwork is AI generative stuff? Dall-E?
definitely ai. i don't inow which one
2020 US Election
in General Banter
Posted · Edited by trying to be less rude
you inaccurately described electoral activism in a negative way. you described it as pointless and the participants being wrong and naive to try to do anything.
no problem. i use strong medicine because we're in a state of info war so i hope you appreciate i didn't mean ill will toward you.
they are and they do
more voters will turn out in a town that is well canvased. if the difference is 1% or 5% then you may consider that little but 1% is often the margin in elections. and all those 1%s add up to more. this is the electoral battle.
canvasing is statistically the most effective. i like it so that's what i do. put yourself in front of people and you will find, if they answer the door, they are interested to talk.
in terms of other avenues, sure. i bet discord chatter moves a lot of people's opinions. similarly to some extent tweets or watmm posts may result in changing the way some people think about some things. plenty of room for innovation. different campaigns embrace innovative approaches to different degrees. but as a citizen anyone is welcome to raise awareness about things they consider important however they want.
the more you follow the story of current events the more you get to know the characters and eventually you will find those that you like. i'm aware of multiple house reps, governors, senators, etc who i consider excellent people. i'm a big biden and obama fan, for example. they are real public servants.
nice, man. stay thoughtful like that.
the info space is flooded and we are evolving a new social system for helping to guide each other toward accurate info. click bait is the temptation that too many outlets fall prey to and consumers are responsible to force good journalism by supporting the good and calling out the bad.
i am now noticing you hail from texas so i get your perspective more easily now. in rightist ecosystems they try to make the left seem just as bad. this is the grand strategy. they immediately and preemptively deploy mirror messaging that accuses the dems of whatever the right could be called out for. fox news 24 hours a day works to spread misinformation about the left. the gop works in a symbiotic way with rightist media to reinforce such narratives, and the result is that people think both sides are fucked. i can tell you that this is a strategy whereby the right deceives people to think the left is rather nefarious when in fact it is manufactured crap. this is how the right can win when they have devolved into a husk that caters to the rich and mega corporations while holding power through engineered and manipulative narratives.
sure and some resist the tendency to degrade better than others. conscience is real and morality is inherent. most people have some goodness and some people are exceptionally moral.
there's no non-politician politician. it's kind of a funny trick if anyone claims to not be a politician while running for office. they have statistics in their head about their voting base and the segments of voters and what messages they want to get out etc. it makes it hard for people to get a sense of the real person from the messaging. but i think that's just how it has to be, by the nature of it.
better officials are good at speaking more plainly. obama and biden are good at it.
another reason why they talk that way is that they are professionals in the field of public policy so you will get a geeky answer from a geek. so the lingo has that politician feel as a result of multiple things: they are cagey about losing voters, motivated to hit their messaging points, and also they try to communicate information that is accurately representing the intricacies of public policy, which is often too in-the-weeds for people to process and their eyes glaze over.
another reason activism is needed, to help people understand what is going on..