goDel
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Posts posted by goDel
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1 minute ago, Soloman Tump said:
At what point do I start to think that panic buying is a legitimate strategy for the continuity of my family.
When you see military in the streets.
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1 hour ago, caze said:
It's also time specific, countries who aren't taking the problem seriously now, will probably be doing so in a couple of weeks when it's too late.
Not necessarily a matter of taking things seriously though. Or worse, if countries would take it really seriously, like Wutan seriously, everyone is checked any time they enter a location. Not once. But on an ongoing basis.
edit: which also helps from having people to call a number ... which then overloads because of the amount of calls. it's just not a good idea to ask people to call with any kind of symptom. sorry.
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Lets keep it at "country specific" (same holds for the Netherlands, btw. apparently the UK works differently)
Also, some useful info about the ibuprofin/paracetamol discussion
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37 minutes ago, caze said:
This is pretty bad advice, I think 'don't take medical advice from people on electronic music forums' is better advice. The problem is someone isn't really able to tell the difference from a "want" and a "need" here, that's what qualified medical advice is for. It's also important for information gathering purposes to contact medical services if you have flu symptoms, and they'll be able to advise you whether you need to go to a hospital or not. Obviously don't go into your GP or a hospital to get advice, but you may need to if you have flu symptoms, so contact (by phone or online) your health service if you do. In China they were triaging anyone showing flu symptoms in special fever diagnosis units (testing everyone in public for high temperatures), this hasn't been set up in most (any?) EU countries yet though. As treatment and diagnosis capacity fluctuates different advice will probably be given out too, so it's important to contact medical services to ensure you have the most up to date advice given out. Self isolation at home isn't enough to stop the spread of this disease, given that most people don't live alone and you especially want to avoid passing on infections to older relatives - eventually more active steps will probably need to be taken: more widespread testing and diagnosis, proper medical isolation for all active carriers.
in all fairness, i wasn't giving medical advice. i just want to make sure people with a mild flu don't go start asking for a test and block the system. (remember, roughly 80% won't need any medical attention. don't want them to call "just in case")
other than that, i'll just move on. i think i've made my point clear.
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well yes and no. id agree the title is clickbaity. and it's a serious mistake if people take this to mean as "it's useless to do anything preventive". i think we can both agree on that part. the part that does seem correct however is that if you actually consider the size of facilities (this goes beyond epidemiology btw) than you run into issues immediately if the current predictions of epidemiologists hold true.
also consider that those comments are not necessarily made by "anyone who has anything of value to say".
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4 hours ago, caze said:
Part of the reason the mortality rate is so low for people under 60 is thanks to treatment people are receiving in hospitals. Healthy people in their 30s-50s are being put on oxygen and some on ventilators, this happens with people with no underlying health problems, but smokers and asthmatics, etc. are even more at risk. In Italy now they are prioritizing treatment for people under 60. You should read some accounts about what is actually happening in hospitals right now, this is very serious, and requires serious medical interventions in many cases, not just for the elderly. The same risks to younger peopler are there for the regular Flu, luckily it's far rarer due to the lower transmissibility, and the potential lethality was worse for MERS/SARS/Swine Flu, but this one is no joke either. If we didn't have modern medical practices this outbreak would probably be about 10x more deadly than it is.
Couple of comments on the discussion with Chen you were having:
Because of the risk of overwhelming demand on hospitals people in general shouldn't go to the hospital as only a tiny percentage need (urgent) help (and can get it at the same time). If you think you need medical help, try getting advice from a general practitioner first, for instance. (This is the most important reason for people with a mild fever and cough *NOT* to call their doctor! If all people with a mild fever call their doctor, the lines will explode and people who need medical assistent/advice don't get it) And please avoid going to the hospital as much as possible. Some hospitals might (read: should) have some local triage unit organised to keep people who don't need urgent treatment *out* of the hospital, btw.
And please don't expect to be tested either at this point. There's simply not enough tests available. (or capacity to do them/the analysis) Tests are only necessary if treatment-decisions depend on it. And treatment-decisions are a stap after the risk assessment in the care process. So, only with high risk and uncertainty with regard to treatment options a test might be made. (if XXX can comment in this, that would be helpful!)
In summary: stay out of the hospitals as much as possible. And only ask for medical advice when you need it. ("need" as opposed to "want" btw. so if you have a fever and *want* to know whether it's covid19...well, think again. wanting is not the same as needing. make that critical assessment what to do yourself. just consider that time spent on you might mean that time is not going to someone who might need help more urgently.)
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And some interesting critical notes on the "flatten the curve" thing here
https://medium.com/@joschabach/flattening-the-curve-is-a-deadly-delusion-eea324fe9727
Summary: when you actually try to fill in the argument with actual numbers, the argument soon falls out of reach (estimate: it would take 10 years to flatten it enough to treat all in need) Take this as a warning of sorts.
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Bit of interesting info about treatment of fever making things worse instead of better. It's 14 mins in when talking about situation in Italy.
So, if you have a fever, be cautious. Just consider it's caused by your immune system for good reasons.
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10 minutes ago, Entorwellian said:
I was hospitalized for a month at the end of 2019 for viral bronchitis and had to be intubated. I'm going to fucking die from this lol.
And yeah basically America with a hefty chunk of Canada, UK and Australia thrown into the mix. For real though keep in contact with your family as much as possible. I'd say go visit them but that might be a death sentence if they're +50
Good luck. ( no sarcasm)
One positive bit though, if you happen to need treatment in a hospital in the coming months, and hospitals are overwhelmed, you might get better help than a 90-something as you're still a young guy. Those "war zone" decisions might be in favor of you.
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8 hours ago, Psychotronic said:
A virus can reinfect if it mutates, that also means that it changes it's properties.
It doesn't need to mutate to be able to reinfect, btw. After the first time, there is no guarantee that you're completely immune. It's not a black/white thing where you're either immune or not. Thing is, when being in this inbetween zone and reinfected, symptoms will be more severe as the response of the immune system will be more jacked up. That expert guy on Joe Rogan a couple of days ago, Michael Olmstrom or something, talked about this as well.
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I'm sure we all do! Self hate is a bit of a thing at watmm. I consider it a form of intelligence. Not the best form. But still.
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2 hours ago, Zeffolia said:
Completely agreed. Nothing in the past few years has laid bare the lies of capitalism and consumption oriented economics than coronavirus. By proving that when somehow the capacity of the US economy increases, in other words the consumption of goods decreases (gas, airline flights, entertainment, restaurants, etc.) that the metrics of our economy are somehow indicating that things are bad, when they really should be good and happy because our system can support a much higher capacity when it's being less stress tested through mass consumption, the proof is laid out in the open for all to see. That's not even taking into account the clear proof that the US medical system is completely sub-par
Yet another piece of the puzzle to help shift the public mindset towards socialism.
I was being sarcastic, btw.
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Link to interesting piece in wapo. And before people are thinking "fake news!", this one will stand the test of time. I won't convince you of that though, so who cares.
One point of criticism though, is that it assumes people reading this knowing how a "normal" crisis would be run. Or what that process would and should look like. And because many people have no clue, or think it's fake news anyways ( cut the president some slack!), it's just another nothingburger. Or so they would think, I assume.
But then imagine being a senator and reading this - and having this required knowledge and depend on this guy doing a good job ... Not saying Senators read this and think he should be out of office. At least, not more senators than the recent impeachment vote. That shit doesn't change. But that doesn't mean they think it's all running smoothly either. They know damn well it's a shitshow. They just ...euh... tend to have a bit more respect for "we the people" and what they want "they support Trump". And it's their party, so... no change yet. ( only expect change in two months when the whole country is on lockdown mode and the epidemic is still out of control)
edit: this infighting and mismanagement is the most important reason why i think the military will be playing a bigger role in 2 months time. It's the only part of government with a strong internal management structure, the budget and the power to do something useful in a crisis like this...I'm afraid
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People are not spaced out properly! XD
huhu getitgettit
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Nice. I expect a big load of new albums in the next 6 months. All this isolating makes good music making time.
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4 minutes ago, MIXL2 said:
remember the '94 criminal justice bill? ;D
Quote- The whole of Part V covered collective trespass and nuisance on land and included sections against raves and further sections against disruptive trespass, squatters, and unauthorised campers – most significantly the criminalisation of previously civil offences. This affected many forms of protest including hunt sabotage and anti-road protests. Sections 63–67 in particular defined any gathering of 20 or more people where:
63(1)(b) "music" includes sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats.
sounds familiar..
also, anti ep
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33 minutes ago, Mesh Gear Fox said:
inform myself about what? that the media is having a field day with this and they're very much responsible for the state of panic? i'm not saying it's not serious, deadly, or worth worrying about. but the coverage has been apocalyptic despite the facts showing that it is not the end of the world.
Inform yourself about the (known) facts. Don't bs this into some nonsense argument about *the media*, *coverage* or this so-called *panic*. Please point me towards this so-called "end of the world" hyperbole coverage. Because I haven't seen it.
And yes, "the media" is imperfect. Especially in a context where the situation can change hugely on a daily basis. But that's no proof for hospitals being full because of people panicking. I'd expect those hysterical people to be in mental wards, btw. Not in hospitals.
And if I still have your attention, would you consider the WHO (or their public statements, if you will) also responsible for this so-called state of panic? What have they said which could cause panic? Why? What's your take on their public statements? Or did you just blurb shit in this thread without an actual idea about what the WHO has been saying?
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* washes hands *
* slaps spirals right cheeks hard enough it's glowing red *
* washes hands again *
* opens bottle with "bottle-opener" *
next time i'll use teh bat
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meanwhile at xxx's place
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Yes, if you want to get tested on the Corona virus, you could take a flight to China or South Korea! Test guaranteed! And flights are cheap!!
/sarcasm
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strangely classy and civilised
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6 minutes ago, ignatius said:
Covid19 - 2020
Only candidate with any real shot to get this climate thing back on track. Took it a couple of weeks to clean up China's act. Now Europa is on the chopping block. US is next in line, although seems anxious to pass Europe and be chopped first. Impressive stuff. And very determined. Better than revolution even.
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pls
Rob pls
in Autechre
Posted