Recommend some labels a fellow EKTer should send a demo to

[Guest placidburp]

I totally didn't forget about sending you some stuff to remix spore!!

 

 

I totally did, sorry. Tomorrow! :)

 

[posture]

I totally didn't forget about sending you some stuff to remix spore!!

 

 

I totally did, sorry. Tomorrow! :)

 

 

It's cool, I'll send some stuff your way on Saturday or Sunday.

[Guest Lube Saibot]

[huge post]

 

I don't think there's a single infinitesimally successful artist out there whose output is just a blog, a myspace and a soundcloud account.

 

As I've said, SURE, you can "get a buzz going" on your own, but if we're talking truly capitalizing on said "buzz", you're gonna need ten shades of fucking backing. As I've said, the labels' contribution to music distribution is not the real issue as it's approaching negligibility. But the access to a label's (big or small) networking base corroborated with a "seal of approval" (if you will) that the signing grants (whether it's a free netlabel, pay netlabel or hard media label) is really the launch ramp to any artist's career.

 

Of course, once the definitions of "successful" and "artist" get murky, there's exceptions. If "success" is getting reblogged on some prominent 40yo shoegaze mom's blog about knitting and breaking through into the lucrative scrapbooker market and selling 100 digital copies of an album and getting a call from your twice removed aunt congratulating you, then i guess "making it" completely off the grid is indeed possible. If any of those US prats making "crunkcore" in garageband are to be called "artists", then yeah, you're fully right, those fuckers get paid "a milli" like... almost instantly, and it's all myspace and garage labels. Sadly it doesn't seem to work the same way for real music for whatever reason.

 

Finally, since i felt the latter half of your post was somehow aimed at me for some reason ( ). Well... I've put in the elbow grease, I've toured locally, made some money, got a bit of a buzz going, got blogged about, got some interest going in netlabels, and

 

1) I've never even sent out a demo or put more than two tracks on myspace, so it's been mostly networking and hearsay

2) I bet absolutely no one here has ever heard of me

 

And it's been fun and punk and all that, but it's not what I'd call "success". Disconcerting as it may be, "success" is still a thing of the tentative mainstream (be it full-on mainstream or niche "mainstream"). I' m finishing up uni and will toil the remainder of the year on a couple of very serious demos, which will then be sent to a couple of choice specialist labels, radio shows and booking agencies, following that with as much gigging as i can possibly manage. It's what I'd advise Spore, and anybody else serious about breaking into whatever scene they fancy, to do. If it were seriously possible to reap the same rewards just gigging and selling tracks on bandcamp, i would, since I'm not much of a self-plugging kind of personality. And it's not a that the music can't stand on its own. A thousand times to the contrary. It's that NO music can truly stand on its own when divorced from absolutely all outside promotion (blog, word of mouth and label).

 

I'll leave the insular relentless self-promotion to shitty metalcore bands who spam your comments section on myspace and, while flagging their spam, you always say to yourself: "man they are absolutely NEVER going to make it". I can pretty much bet my lube that you have had this exact thought process at least once in your life, whoever you are reading this sentence.

[Guest maus]

nothing was aimed at you personally there... i speak in general terms unless otherwise noted.

 

i think the disconnect in what we're talking about is that yes, historically, there are few acts that have become popular without "label involvement".

 

however.

 

prior to the last couple of years, labels picked up ANY artist once they reached a certain point of notoriety or success.

 

we don't need labels anymore.

 

LS, you're misinterpreting the value of blogs, etc. being written about on some "aging hipster's" blog is, of course, in and of itself, nothing great. but this is where people are finding out about music.

 

people don't watch MTV.

 

people don't listen to the radio.

 

people pay attention to what their friends say on facebook.

 

why do you think corporations of ALL types are investing MASSIVE amounts of money into social networking, rather than traditional advertising?

 

TV ratings are PLUMMETING right now because people would rather watch their TV programs on HULU or whatever portal-du-jour is on offer. advertisers don't want to pay to have ads put on TV that people are going to TIVO past. studios, executives, and once-well-protected producers are in a complete state of PANIC.

 

nobody wants to buy MGM. james bond is cancelled. the industry is collapsing. music was just the harbinger.

 

LA is a wasteland of what it used to be. i got here to watch the end of it. i've worked for veteran composers who are giving up, and desperately trying to form a union to protect their advantage, because the playing field has been absolutely LEVELED by technology.

 

and that's why labels aren't useful anymore.

 

everything you're saying was valid up until maybe 3 or 4 years ago (probably a bit further back than that, though.) but everything has (and still is) changing.

 

i sat in a room where a swedish ex-hacker was trying to convince rick rubin, anthony kiedis, and a small assembly of music industry luminaries that he had technology that would pinpoint people downloading music by tracking a "crystal" in their computer. this is not a fucking joke. and these guys were all over the idea. they're desperate.

 

of course, that turned out to be a scam.

 

but i digress... the point is that the old models aren't valid anymore. yes, we're still in a period where labels exist, and offer some shadowy version of what they once did. but what can they help you do? what do you expect to gain from their help? (again, YOU being a general term... )

 

distribution? we already know we don't need that.

marketing? these guys are looking at the same channels we're talking about here. there's a small benefit for the time being of larger ad-based connections and resources, but that's drying up. online ad companies are suffering too. and only the majors spend money on posters, billboards, and such (at least in the US.)

artist development? are you not confident in your art? would you want someone trying to tamper with it? development deals were always, in my eyes, a way of saying "we need to find a way to make you a bit more marketable, but we're willing to gamble." but marketable doesn't really exist right now. there's no market!

 

suddenly my optimistic view isn't as optimistic as it once seemed. to be honest, i think the days of internationally-known artists are going to go away for a while. i say for a while because it will take some time for the old system to completely die out, and then a bit more time still for something new to take its place. i think a new filter will arise. be it internet radio (a strangely arcane concept that seems to have some traction for god knows what reason), websites that take on the loose role of what labels used to do, or something we haven't even thought of yet.

 

it's a bit depressing. but then, i usually just remind myself why i make music (at least my 'artist' music.) and it's because i love to do it. i've given away every release i've ever had. i've never had illusions of making money. in my younger days i sent my share of demos to labels, and i'm not saying i'd say FUCK OFF if one approached me now. there are still benefits to be had. but it will be interesting to see what kind of conversation we're all having in 5 years in terms of making money from music.

 

i should also mention that this is, again, all my OPINION. truth is, nobody knows what the hell is going to happen. the UK is working on legislation to make piracy more difficult. copyright holders INTERNATIONALLY are trying to leverage child pornography to enact laws that will subsequently make it easier to shut down filesharing sites. but the tide has turned. maybe it's too late. and maybe it should be! the music industry turned music into a commodity, and what passes for popular music these days is an insult to music. not because there's no value to the production or writing - i feel that there is... but more because it's not art anymore. it's a carefully MANUFACTURED PRODUCT that's had any sense of art, edge, or innovation sucked out of it to make it sell better.

 

i write a lot about this because i'm pretty passionate about the subject. i often recommend that musicians check out bob lefsetz' email list... he's an industry insider with some very sobering, very bitter, but often very accurate thoughts and ruminations on all of this. you can check it out at www.lefsetzletter.com

 

i'm definitely not attacking you on this, lube saibot... if anything i'm attacking the infrastructure (or remaining fragments) of the industry.

[Guest Drahken]

imo the fast track to success these days is a clever, cheeky youtube music video that goes viral.

[Guest maus]

imo the fast track to success these days is a clever, cheeky youtube music video that goes viral.

 

this is more true than it seems. look at die antwoord. love 'em or hate 'em. of course, now they're working with interscope.

[posture]

imo the fast track to success these days is a clever, cheeky youtube music video that goes viral.

 

I agree, too bad I don't know anyone or know how to go about making an awesome music video. Pogo is a good example too, same for the Symphony Of Science vids.

[Guest Blanket Fort Collapse]

once again, I share pretty much the same(while less elaborate) understandings as Maus, its pretty fucking sobering and depressing sometimes but I remember I love to make music. Then I remember how much I loved to make music when I actually thought all I need to do is make amazing music and it will be easy to get it out lots of people who will enjoy it... ts no longer that easy at all and I know it. I feel like I'm just talking to myself sometimes making music. I know I would be more inspired, work harder and have more fun if I didn't see how many odds are stacked against being successful as musician these days. It doesn't help that I respect the majority of humans on this planet less and less nearly everyday. I wish I could have the comfort level in making music, technical knowledge and tools I have know 15 years ago DEAR GOD that would be fucking nice. god damnt I love making music but this shit really is making it less fun seeing so many walls and closed doors.

 

but I've got stop being a pussy and work harder despite the lack of encouragement the world is giving artists right now. narrow my artist tunnel vision and expand my tactical outlook.

 

I should really just do what ive known is fool proof and somehow make myself believe im a born again christian and attack the christian music market full force. I think even in this day in age that market is still incredibly easy to make money off of (and impact peoples lives lol)

[Silent Member]

I just want to make music, I am not interested in any other part of the music industry. Come to think of it I pretty much despise all of it. So to summarize, I am lucky if I ever get a gig or a listener. I guess that's why I don't make music anymore. I will eventually. Perhaps.

 

edit: Btw. Having a full time job, house, spouse and kid makes it damn near impossible to invest any time in all that self promotional lark that I hate anyway.

[Guest Blanket Fort Collapse]

kind of inspired by this thread, I realize I've just gotta stay focused and do my best on all avenues of music production, promotion and delivery. Most importantly music production though, Ive got the weekend free. I'm gonna disconnect my internet and get as much done until I'm forced to turn it back on to watch Breaking Bad, The Pacific and Treme on Sunday night. See ya then Watmm.

[Guest Lube Saibot]

nothing was aimed at you personally there... i speak in general terms unless otherwise noted.

 

i think the disconnect in what we're talking about is that yes, historically, there are few acts that have become popular without "label involvement".

 

however.

 

prior to the last couple of years, labels picked up ANY artist once they reached a certain point of notoriety or success.

 

we don't need labels anymore.

 

LS, you're misinterpreting the value of blogs, etc. being written about on some "aging hipster's" blog is, of course, in and of itself, nothing great. but this is where people are finding out about music.

 

people don't watch MTV.

 

people don't listen to the radio.

 

people pay attention to what their friends say on facebook.

 

why do you think corporations of ALL types are investing MASSIVE amounts of money into social networking, rather than traditional advertising?

 

TV ratings are PLUMMETING right now because people would rather watch their TV programs on HULU or whatever portal-du-jour is on offer. advertisers don't want to pay to have ads put on TV that people are going to TIVO past. studios, executives, and once-well-protected producers are in a complete state of PANIC.

 

nobody wants to buy MGM. james bond is cancelled. the industry is collapsing. music was just the harbinger.

 

LA is a wasteland of what it used to be. i got here to watch the end of it. i've worked for veteran composers who are giving up, and desperately trying to form a union to protect their advantage, because the playing field has been absolutely LEVELED by technology.

 

and that's why labels aren't useful anymore.

 

everything you're saying was valid up until maybe 3 or 4 years ago (probably a bit further back than that, though.) but everything has (and still is) changing.

 

i sat in a room where a swedish ex-hacker was trying to convince rick rubin, anthony kiedis, and a small assembly of music industry luminaries that he had technology that would pinpoint people downloading music by tracking a "crystal" in their computer. this is not a fucking joke. and these guys were all over the idea. they're desperate.

 

of course, that turned out to be a scam.

 

but i digress... the point is that the old models aren't valid anymore. yes, we're still in a period where labels exist, and offer some shadowy version of what they once did. but what can they help you do? what do you expect to gain from their help? (again, YOU being a general term... )

 

distribution? we already know we don't need that.

marketing? these guys are looking at the same channels we're talking about here. there's a small benefit for the time being of larger ad-based connections and resources, but that's drying up. online ad companies are suffering too. and only the majors spend money on posters, billboards, and such (at least in the US.)

artist development? are you not confident in your art? would you want someone trying to tamper with it? development deals were always, in my eyes, a way of saying "we need to find a way to make you a bit more marketable, but we're willing to gamble." but marketable doesn't really exist right now. there's no market!

 

suddenly my optimistic view isn't as optimistic as it once seemed. to be honest, i think the days of internationally-known artists are going to go away for a while. i say for a while because it will take some time for the old system to completely die out, and then a bit more time still for something new to take its place. i think a new filter will arise. be it internet radio (a strangely arcane concept that seems to have some traction for god knows what reason), websites that take on the loose role of what labels used to do, or something we haven't even thought of yet.

 

it's a bit depressing. but then, i usually just remind myself why i make music (at least my 'artist' music.) and it's because i love to do it. i've given away every release i've ever had. i've never had illusions of making money. in my younger days i sent my share of demos to labels, and i'm not saying i'd say FUCK OFF if one approached me now. there are still benefits to be had. but it will be interesting to see what kind of conversation we're all having in 5 years in terms of making money from music.

 

i should also mention that this is, again, all my OPINION. truth is, nobody knows what the hell is going to happen. the UK is working on legislation to make piracy more difficult. copyright holders INTERNATIONALLY are trying to leverage child pornography to enact laws that will subsequently make it easier to shut down filesharing sites. but the tide has turned. maybe it's too late. and maybe it should be! the music industry turned music into a commodity, and what passes for popular music these days is an insult to music. not because there's no value to the production or writing - i feel that there is... but more because it's not art anymore. it's a carefully MANUFACTURED PRODUCT that's had any sense of art, edge, or innovation sucked out of it to make it sell better.

 

i write a lot about this because i'm pretty passionate about the subject. i often recommend that musicians check out bob lefsetz' email list... he's an industry insider with some very sobering, very bitter, but often very accurate thoughts and ruminations on all of this. you can check it out at www.lefsetzletter.com

 

i'm definitely not attacking you on this, lube saibot... if anything i'm attacking the infrastructure (or remaining fragments) of the industry.

 

Dude i totally see your point(s) but I'm not talking MTV, I'm not talking Virgin and Interscope and EMI and Def Jam. I'm not even talking Sub Pop or Roadrunner. I'm talking Warp, Planet Mu, Sublight (R.I.P.), Hyperdub, Tempa, Turbo, Ed Banger and even further down - Black Acre, Lo Dubs, Southside Dubstars, Mako, Countersound... really an endless number of dubplate labels.

 

The current status quo of music distribution is obviously well on the decline, and when it does completely crash it will take out the big-wigs first, but it will take a huge while for it to take out the mid-to-small and micro labels, for the simple fact that, being such low-key operations, it doesn't take that much cash to keep 'em running. Almost major stuff like Warp may indeed be starting to feel the bite, but i guarantee you Mako don't give a shit about mp3 piracy. Micro-label's purpose is small and clear: find artists consistent with the rest of their stable, put out 2-3 of their bangers on wax, recuperate the small admin and distribution expenditures and keep afloat through the few hundred vinyl sales. No profit, but also no creditors on your back. And most of these are run by artists who, already financially content, run them as tastemaking mills.

 

And these will die out last, and with them the deference to labels of trust and openness from the public. Because, sadly, kid look to that "seal of approval". The labels' relative success in the past in the past of separating gems from the dirge has lead to a catch 22 of sorts: the insane amount of music these days desperately needs a filter, and kids will look everywhere for it; however, the amount being what it is, no filter is much of a filter anymore, because they are bound to miss a ton of stuff, so the filters have to specialize more and more and more to stay on top of things. So, unless you go viral with something, you need every possible watermark out there, be it from blogs AND labels AND pirate radio AND critics AND everything, as all of these are slowly losing face and being devalued.

 

Of course, soon comes a point where the above situation implodes, and then we arrive at precisely Maus's outlook. But until then... for at least 5-10 more years or so, validation is still valid.

 

Maus, i gauge your point of view as quite sound, especially on account of the considerable inside experience you seem to have. However, I'm not sure you have much "outside experience", so to say. You said you have sent out demos of your stuff to labels, but that is just one front. The other front is the PR front, and you have no idea what a shit front this is. Festivals, big clubs, workshops and 50% (optimistically) of the public, look at your crooked-eyed when you're unsigned, COMPLETELY REGARDLESS of your musical output. On the flipside, where i to be signed basically ANYWHERE REMOTELY "COOL" tomorrow, i could book any fucking avenue again COMPLETELY REGARDLESS of the music. I could make fucking fart serenades, wouldn't matter. Maybe this is just a shitty local reality, I'm not sure really, but honestly i imagine it to be even MORE cutthroat in countries with more developed scenes and all that. So yeah... in this regard, labels make a fucking difference. I'm not bitter, I'm not in love with labels or anything, it's simply that this is the reality as it has presented itself to me for the past couple of years. If it gets to the point where i can simply vouch for my own quality out of thin air, i eagerly await that point.

[Guest margaret thatcher]

easy ways to the top:

do a remix of a popular artist/song and sent it out to the blogs

play live a lot, and i mean a lot

[Hautlle]

We all need to band together and start pimping each other out! If you have a facebook/myspace etc, and you enjoy someones music here use that tool to let other people know! I know acidburp has mentioned my track/put up links, and I just pimped "The Swarm", I'm trying to return the favor. WATMM is a huge resource that really has more potential. Help your brethren out!

[Guest Lube Saibot]

We all need to band together and start pimping each other out! If you have a facebook/myspace etc, and you enjoy someones music here use that tool to let other people know! I know acidburp has mentioned my track/put up links, and I just pimped "The Swarm", I'm trying to return the favor. WATMM is a huge resource that really has more potential. Help your brethren out!

 

true.

[vamos scorcho]

with electronic music it seems like it's a bit easier to get signed.

 

in terms of difficulty it goes like this, it seems

 

warp>planet mu

 

etc

 

then there are more artsy labels like sonig and ninja tune etc. i think they're more artsy at least.

 

i'll say this, i sent my music to three labels and got a response from one of them, a pretty well known label in the electronic music community, and it happened rapidly. there really is hope in sending your music to labels through emails or whatever, you just need to play it cool and make sure the music is great in the first place.

 

don't be discouraged when you don't get replies, just keep sending it. that's what i think. i made a bandcamp specifically to see if the labels were giving my music a fair chance, i could see if they listened to it or not. well paw tracks and planet mu didn't listen to more than 10% of the first track before clicking off the page. so fuck them.

 

not really "fuck them," but you have to understand it's hard with the bigger electronic labels. warp actually downloaded my EP but they never replied. warp is the dream label for me, to be honest.

 

i think labels are incredibly important for lazy people like me. i don't want to have to get a label together, and i want GOOD treatment. i want vinyls printed, i want cds, i want pitchfork reviews, you feel me? we musicians deserve that shit. so i do think that getting signed is a much better alternative than trying to climb the blog walls. especially when your music is more out there / less accessible like mine is.

 

i think that's some good advice. look at labels that your favorite artists are signed to and check out those labels and see if they're up to par for you or not. and then send your stuff anyway.

 

 

 

i think i almost got "signed" but it seems to have not gone how i envisioned it. i don't understand how it works really, especially with laptop albums by artists who have never performed live.

[Guest Lube Saibot]

oh my god STFU already

[Guest placidburp]

I know lots of people can't stand facebook for various reasons, But, I think it is a pretty good promotion tool. I set one up for my music and have got a pretty good response so far, and have even managed to boost to the number of people going to trashbear just through my own page - they heard some of my music and enjoyed it, saw the event and said they will come along to see me play.

If people don't want to add you they won't. If people add anyone just to boost their 'friends' count, then fine. Every now and then you will get someone who genuinely enjoys your stuff and will keep an eye out for any new music you post, they share your music, others like it, they share, etc etc... Honestly it is working quite well for me so far.

 

The reason I set my page up was because I had an offer to release some music through a record label. They will get my music professionally mastered and sell them as MP3's to start with, if they sell quite well then they will release my stuff on CD and Vinyl. So I am trying to promote myself as much as I can now so people will have hopefully seen my name around.

I am not being naive and thinking that I will make a fortune from this, not at all, but its a nice starting point and I am trying to get as much attention for myself as possible.

There is really nothing wrong with self promotion, you shouldn't feel ashamed at all. Your(Spore) music is bloody great and should be heard!

 

*Cough* spores fb *cough*

[vamos scorcho]

oh my god STFU already

 

you're basically telling yourself to shut up because i agree with pretty much 100% of your points in that post

 

bro

[Guest Lube Saibot]

I don't see how you're "agreeing" to anything, i don't remembered talking about Planet Mu passing on signing Vamos Scorcho. Oh' and i remember having a point besides telling WATMM the 853 time about how i think I'm basically the next Aphex Twin.

[vamos scorcho]

i don't think i'm the next aphex twin

 

i don't understand why you target me and me only, you're nice to everyone else. it's like i have some personality trait that you despise. my post really wasn't that bad at all

 

i think it was insightful

 

yeah i'm taking this way too seriously i just don't like feeling like i'm disliked by anybody

[vamos scorcho]

about the next aphex twin thing, i think that's interesting

 

because there have been times i've gotten really grandiose like i'm making music sent directly to me from the universal gods but i come down from that and i can hear it the way it is.

 

but don't you think that a lot of electronic musicians and artists think shit like that all the time, they just try to hide it. i don't hide shit, especially on the internet. anyway

 

if there is any artist who's career i would use as a blueprint for my own over the rest of my life it would probably be the guys in abba mixed with squarepusher

[Guest Lube Saibot]

i don't understand why you target me and me only, you're nice to everyone else. it's like i have some personality trait that you despise.

 

there you go buddy

[Guest Lube Saibot]

a lot of electronic musicians and artists think shit like that all the time, they just try to hide it

 

It's true (at least, i THINK it's true) that everybody thinks like that. Confidence and a sense of "channeling olympus itself" and all that are, IMO, important traits of a successful artist. Most people are also humble enough to shut the fuck up about it though. I i happened to actually like your music, the way you present it would honestly be a major turn-off. Considering that your music is basically what it would sound like if someone invented YouTube Quadrupler and chose vids at random, it doesn't quite help.

[Guest Sprigg]

I should really just do what ive known is fool proof and somehow make myself believe im a born again christian and attack the christian music market full force. I think even in this day in age that market is still incredibly easy to make money off of (and impact peoples lives lol)

 

This.

Haha, any twat can write 'Jesus I love you' ten different ways with an acoustic guitar behind it. And you KNOW that churches/ individuals will eat that shit up.

 

EDIT: I almost feel guilty for saying that. Almost.

[vamos scorcho]

dude lube you're definitely right. i need to tone that down