Lucas Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Hey and sorry for the pompous title. So at the moment I'm quite asking myself how I can improve the way I work with my music equipment but I'm not sure what I want to do. I thought I could share my interrogations here, and hopefully it'll sound familiar to some of you. Don't hesitate to post related ideas even if your setup is different of course. So here is it for me : I started making music with a computer (Renoise) about seven years ago, a few years later, I bought an Electribe SX and discovered what it is to have some knobs under the hands. Around that time I started using Reaper in combination with Renoise (through Rewire). I slowly started to use Renoise mostly for the beats and Reaper for the synths, automations and mixing. Since then I acquired a few more hardware little things (a Yamaha DX9, a Monotribe and more recently a Yamaha CS1X). And since a few years, I've always been making music with this setup : the hardware midi-controlled and recorded through my interface, and the session in Reaper being the mother file where I can compose and mix my tracks. It's been working pretty well but sometimes I feel tired about having to switch constantly between the hardware, Reaper, Renoise, and of course all the Vsts. Bothering too much about the mix of a track before it's actually finished can also be a problem. I'd like the whole thing to have a bit more of an organic feel. That's how I started to think that instead of buying a new synth for my birthday, I could go for an analogue mixer. The idea would be to have all my hardware instruments going through it, plus why not a pair of hardware effects as inserts later when I have some money, and then sending two or four tracks of a premix into Reaper. That would allow me to treat hardware mostly with hardware (EQ, effects ; and if needed some further adjustments with vsts), the whole thing possibly being a little bit easier. I'm not sure I'm seeing all the pros and cons of the idea so if some of you have some ideas or even already went through that kind of decision don't hesitate to participate. I know this post is too long but writing it already helped, congrats if you feel up to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 a good compromise would be a hardware mixer that also acts as a soundcard/audio interface like some of the newer Alan and heath mixers, that have analog mixing and EQ but then has the option to treat each channel post FX like an input on any old soundcard. as much as i enjoyed playing with a proper hardware mixer during my live sets, unless you have a nice hardware compressor and limiter or employ all analog sounds in the hardware realm i don't think it makes sense to stick with a traditional hardware mixer as the end of your chain. currently i'm mixing everything I do including hardware/vsts/hardwarefx/softwarefx all into abelton live's mixer. This is even including when im barely using any software effects. I'm done having any shame clicking around on a laptop screen, especially when im comfortable knowing what im doing is genuinely live. Someone who was behind the stage last time i was setting up was like 'why dont you have a midi fader box to work the mixer in ableton' and my answer was simple 'i dont like midi controllers for movements, never have and i'm much faster and more comfortable at using the mouse'. but the real truth is absolutely despise using midi controller fader boxes/clip on/off boxes for live shows, i think they are crass, over-used and they never gelled with me as a performer. I don't like watching people use them. I know this has nothing to do with what you asked, but i thought id let my tangent unfold naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foresense Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Using a big analog mixer is actually nice. I'm using one for a lot of tunes these days to do a bit of live mixing/dubbing when I record tracks. I don't really render that much anymore and it's great to do as a final touch to a recording. Need to fix my big soundcard and then I'll start recording multitracks back into my computer. But I'm happy as it is for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 as much as i enjoyed playing with a proper hardware mixer during my live sets, unless you have a nice hardware compressor and limiter or employ all analog sounds in the hardware realm i don't think it makes sense to stick with a traditional hardware mixer as the end of your chain. Well that's not exactly what I meant, I'd just want to plug all my hardware instruments (and later effects) into the mixer in order to treat them on hardware before they're sent to Reaper. Reaper would still be the master mixer (it would mix the output of the analogue mixer with some VSTi tracks + some tracks from Renoise). Using a big analog mixer is actually nice. I'm using one for a lot of tunes these days to do a bit of live mixing/dubbing when I record tracks. I don't really render that much anymore and it's great to do as a final touch to a recording. Need to fix my big soundcard and then I'll start recording multitracks back into my computer. But I'm happy as it is for now. And what mixer do you use missingsense? Do you monitor it through a DAW in your computer and then record it when you're close to your track completion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foresense Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Using a big analog mixer is actually nice. I'm using one for a lot of tunes these days to do a bit of live mixing/dubbing when I record tracks. I don't really render that much anymore and it's great to do as a final touch to a recording. Need to fix my big soundcard and then I'll start recording multitracks back into my computer. But I'm happy as it is for now. And what mixer do you use missingsense? Do you monitor it through a DAW in your computer and then record it when you're close to your track completion ? I'm using a Soundcraft Spirit Studio 16/8/2. I'm simply recording the master mix back into a Renoise sample (including all the stuff I send out via the computer), and it works.. It's not as nice as using a dedicated DAW for it, but I hate setting up ReWire and my soundcard doesn't share ASIO.. It would be nice to have a good limiter at the end stage, I have two Behringer Composer PRO-XL and they get the job done for a lot of stuff, but right now I just do some additional processing on the final recording inside the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Looks like a good mixer you have there. For me it has the right number of channels, reasonable EQ capabilities and it seems affordable. Does it sound good ? God I've no idea about choosing a mixer, I guess I'll have to take a tour on Gearslutz or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foresense Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yeah, I'm no expert either, I just bought it based on what I read that seemed to fit what I wanted. It was bigger and heavier then I expected. I'm happy with the sound. The sweepable EQ is useful, although it can get a bit hissy if you add too much highs on too much channels. It has a nice sounding distortion if you push the pre-amp stage. I think the routing capabilities are what set this apart from most other mixers. Though you only get EQ for 16 channels, it has more then double the inputs (if you count the FX returns it has 40 ins). The 8 bus outputs are great for doing submixes: hooking up compressors to whole parts etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancolecreate Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Ya real mixer is awesome to have. It lets you really play a lot more than software can. I do a lot of stuff with feedback loops though guitar pedals with sends and stuff. Not advisable on a nice mixer. :) My goal setup is to have a mixer with a submix out that I can use to momentarily route things to the audio interface. Mostly my setup is hardware so i compose and all that so that the tunes play complete from a sequencer (software or hardware). Since I only have a 2-in interface the subout from a mixer would be a perfect way to record in tracks as I want. Also a patchbay is awesome to have. Also I'm working on having all mu gear on that all the time, so I can really quickly patch things around through effects, vocoders, etc. Will be so cool when it's done. :) So many patch cables to build!!! D: Really I need like 50 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Looks like a good mixer you have there. For me it has the right number of channels, reasonable EQ capabilities and it seems affordable. Does it sound good ? God I've no idea about choosing a mixer, I guess I'll have to take a tour on Gearslutz or something... well i got a little side-tracked with your original question but the Alan and heath mixers are pretty much perfect for what you want to do, nice pre-amps, good eqs and each channel POST analog processing will go straight into your computer as individual ins. You can also use it like a traditional analog mixer and not have the channels piped individually into your computer. Kind of the best of both worlds and for the prices i don't know if you'd find anything better. Mackie makes similar mixers now, but alan and heath is a slight step up in quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 I made a thread on Gearslutz on this topic, in case some of you are interested. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/899976-mixers-along-computers-electronic-music.html Searching on this forum a little bit made me come across some suggestions for Alan & Heath and Soundcraft mixers. Alan & Heath sounds like the brand electronic musicians are talking about. But I'd like to extend the search and find other good company names. There's an interesting ebay auction for a quite big A&H GL2200 not far from where I live, it's quite big for me but it could be good, I don't know... I thought I don't need wonderful mic preamps as I'll just record instr. levels, and in case I need good preamps I'll pick one in the equipment of the recording studio I run with my mates. EQs are important for me as I'd like to mix my hardware on the hardware mixer the better possible. So the thing I'd like to find out is, are there some Mixer which have better EQ and any mic preamps ? Maybe that could me make save some money. Ya real mixer is awesome to have. It lets you really play a lot more than software can. I do a lot of stuff with feedback loops though guitar pedals with sends and stuff. Not advisable on a nice mixer. :) My goal setup is to have a mixer with a submix out that I can use to momentarily route things to the audio interface. Mostly my setup is hardware so i compose and all that so that the tunes play complete from a sequencer (software or hardware). Since I only have a 2-in interface the subout from a mixer would be a perfect way to record in tracks as I want. I guess that's pretty much how I picture the contribution of a mixer in my config, hopefully I can operate such a workflow with it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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