Building a decent hardware studio

[Guest LJG]

Hello all, hope your summer's going well...

 

I recently got myself a laptop with all the bells and whistles, and have been tweaking around with demos for Reason, Ableton, and the like. The thing is I'm really not too excited about music creation within a software format.

 

My only piece of gear apart from traditional instruments is an EMX-1 by korg. I have always had a blast working with it, and I love the hands on feel and sounds.

 

So by comparison, doing music on a computer just lacks the same kind of fun for me. I understand that controllers can change all that, but the simplicity and directness of actual hardware machines, be they analog or VA just really captivates me, and makes me want to continue working with them predominantly.

 

So I've got a simple monosynth, with pretty good sounds, great tweakability, and a built-in sequencer. I'd like to continue building up my stuff a piece or two at a time, but I want to be smart about it. I'm not looking for an uber studio specifically, but I don't want to pidgeonhole myself either.

 

So the question is, what are the essential elements of a decent hardware setup, and if it's possible to get the gear in a bit of a sequence, what would you do and in what order? Bigass mixer? Sampler? More synths for pads? What should be next?

 

Hope y'all are well.

[kakapo]

People tend to neglect a decent external multi-fx box for some reason. Ensoniq DP series is a good bet. Deep and tweakable, though not particularly user-friendly, and great sounding (DP4, DP4+ and DP2. DP Pro less so apparently, but I've never used one) Used by just about everyone at some point. You could always build up a collection of fx pedals as well.

[Guest LJG]

People tend to neglect a decent external multi-fx box for some reason. Ensoniq DP series is a good bet. Deep and tweakable, though not particularly user-friendly, and great sounding (DP4, DP4+ and DP2. DP Pro less so apparently, but I've never used one) Used by just about everyone at some point. You could always build up a collection of fx pedals as well.

 

Cool yeah, that would probably be a good idea, and far easier than relying on internal effects from the individual components as well... I happen to have an old digitech rp-7 with tubes and good wahs that sound great as resonant filters, not a bad place to begin. Thanks there! I'll look into that as well.

[Key]

Get an old Mackie mixer off Ebay

get a TR-707 or TR-606 for about £100-120

and a cheap DCO polysynth for pads maybe a Roland JX-8P or Korg Polysix (about £150)

[Guest LJG]

Get an old Mackie mixer off Ebay

get a TR-707 or TR-606 for about £100-120

and a cheap DCO polysynth for pads maybe a Roland JX-8P or Korg Polysix (about £150)

Good call on all counts. As it turns out I may be recording a demo very soon for another music project that I'm hoping to get busy with over the coming year, in preparation for the festival circuit in the summer. Because of that I may end up getting a mixer very soon, and some monitors. I was thinking the other day that if I had a proper mixer I could actually have a lot more control over my simple synth, by using multiple outs and routing blah blah. Pretty cool.

 

I'll have to look into the other gear and see what's up. You guys have any thoughts on the rackmount versions of the Korg MS-2000 or the Radias?

 

OH YEAH one more question. If I were to use my computer basically for multitrack recording, what should I consider in terms of breakout box or rackmount soundcards?

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

I use a Motu 8Pre. 8 inputs, all with preamps, but only stereo and headphone outs. This is perfect for me, but if you want a lot of outs, you should check out other ones. It also has midi.

[Guest Diao]

Get an old Mackie mixer off Ebay

get a TR-707 or TR-606 for about £100-120

and a cheap DCO polysynth for pads maybe a Roland JX-8P or Korg Polysix (about £150)

 

Might I ask where one could find a 606 at said price? According to eBay, they are apparently worth upwards of $500 now.

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

Get an old Mackie mixer off Ebay

get a TR-707 or TR-606 for about £100-120

and a cheap DCO polysynth for pads maybe a Roland JX-8P or Korg Polysix (about £150)

 

Might I ask where one could find a 606 at said price? According to eBay, they are apparently worth upwards of $500 now.

 

For that price I would probably sell mine!

[Key]

Get an old Mackie mixer off Ebay

get a TR-707 or TR-606 for about £100-120

and a cheap DCO polysynth for pads maybe a Roland JX-8P or Korg Polysix (about £150)

 

Might I ask where one could find a 606 at said price? According to eBay, they are apparently worth upwards of $500 now.

 

Im pretty sure I got mine about six months ago off the uk ebay for about £120. Theres one up there now for £107 with 2 days to go. I havent seen any go for over £200 recently.

[Guest LJG]

I use a Motu 8Pre. 8 inputs, all with preamps, but only stereo and headphone outs. This is perfect for me, but if you want a lot of outs, you should check out other ones. It also has midi.

 

Something with midi seems a good call, or at least pretty handy. What exactly would be the difference between running through something like a Motu and running through a USB mixer? Is there something that the Motu does beyond just mixing and audio ins?

[SCONES TO DIE FOR]

I use a Motu 8Pre. 8 inputs, all with preamps, but only stereo and headphone outs. This is perfect for me, but if you want a lot of outs, you should check out other ones. It also has midi.

 

Something with midi seems a good call, or at least pretty handy. What exactly would be the difference between running through something like a Motu and running through a USB mixer? Is there something that the Motu does beyond just mixing and audio ins?

 

 

Not sure, but the Motu preamps are good quality.

 

I prefer it over a USB mixer because I don't want a mixer; they take up too much space. I prefer to mix in my software. I rackmount the Motu.

[kokoon]

id say, at this point, decide whether you want to mix "in the box" (itb) or outside. analogue mixing, for me, is the main point of having a hardware studio.

 

if you don't want to get an analogue mixer, then get a decent sound interface. yeah, they're called like that. they have like 8+ inputs and 8+ outputs and are capable of good sample rates and resolutions.

 

otherwise, get a used mixer, preferrably 16 mono channels cause otherwise you'll outgrow it too quickly.

 

in any case, get some effects. if you're planing to mix itb, analogue effects can totally make a difference. look for cheap BBD echoes or choruses, cheap tape echoes and cheap spring reverbs. if you can get a tube preamp, go for it. it'll totally add to your sound.

 

but in any case, you'll need to learn how use the effects. you use some as inserts, some as aux effects.

 

as for sound generators, i agree with "get a cheap dco poly" polysix is not a dco poly, it doesn't have midi and is not a good starting synth imo. my vote goes to jx-3p with a pg-200. it's a killer synth for the price.

[Guest LJG]

id say, at this point, decide whether you want to mix "in the box" (itb) or outside. analogue mixing, for me, is the main point of having a hardware studio.

 

if you don't want to get an analogue mixer, then get a decent sound interface. yeah, they're called like that. they have like 8+ inputs and 8+ outputs and are capable of good sample rates and resolutions.

 

otherwise, get a used mixer, preferrably 16 mono channels cause otherwise you'll outgrow it too quickly.

 

in any case, get some effects. if you're planing to mix itb, analogue effects can totally make a difference. look for cheap BBD echoes or choruses, cheap tape echoes and cheap spring reverbs. if you can get a tube preamp, go for it. it'll totally add to your sound.

 

but in any case, you'll need to learn how use the effects. you use some as inserts, some as aux effects.

 

as for sound generators, i agree with "get a cheap dco poly" polysix is not a dco poly, it doesn't have midi and is not a good starting synth imo. my vote goes to jx-3p with a pg-200. it's a killer synth for the price.

 

Cool. Yeah, I want to do as much as possible on the hardware side of things, and basically just use the computer for capturing audio. I'm leaning rather heavily toward going with a rack setup primarily. I think that's a good way to go in general, and kind of build it as I go along approach.

 

As I've had time to mull things over a bit, I've decided my next purchase will be a mixer, and then hopefully one more really good (probably VA) synth to round things out, like either a Korg Radius or a Nord in rack version. I think I'd do well to learn to tweak the synth I have with a mixer firstly, as it will increase control quite a bit, and I can make more use of the quad outputs for drop ins/outs. Plus I can begin to work with some effects mixing as well- that old multieffects pedalboard of mine has some pristine realtime control, which I think can be really useful, if a tad funny looking. The effects advice is spot on, I'll be sure to keep a side budget for whatever pieces I may run across as I go along... can you clarify for me the difference between insert and aux effects?

 

I'll also look into the synths you've recommended, thanks!

 

I'm pretty excited about delving into this. Realtime performance and technique is much more what I'm into, and I know this is going to be rewarding, even from the jump...

[YEK]

how much does an average tube preamp go for used on ebay? 500?

 

i'm searching musiciansfriend and they all say they're mic preamps....

[kokoon]

it's a journey. it can be rewarding, it can be painful, it can be many things. but you can be sure it's quite an expensive journey :)

 

aux - you send an amount of any signal (channel for example) to one the auxilary busses and you have the auxilary buss output connected to your effect's "input". then it's up to you how you handle the effect's output. you can connect it to another input channel, most mixers have a few 'smaller' (in terms of functionality) channels for that, called 'aux returns' or 'effect returns'. one example use of aux effecting could be reverb, you send different amounts of your channels' signals to the aux buss, they are mixed to that buss, then the mixed signal goes into reverb, gets reverberated and then put out into the mixer's stereo channel (where you don't send it back to that same aux, cause that would make a feedback loop... okay you might want to do that sometimes, but that's another story). you usually set the effect to output only 'wet' signal (as opposed to 'dry') so you can se the level of actual reverb on your mixer.

you could visualize that kind of effect connection as "parallel".

 

insert - you connect a single signal (well okay or buss, which can contain mixed signals) to an effect, in series (serial). that means that you disconnect the previous signal path and insert the effect in between. typical use would be a compressor. or distortion. you can also use reverb, but then you'd mustn't set the reverb unit to 'dry' only, but somewhere in between, otherwise you wouldn't hear the original signal, just the reverb.

 

okay, i understand this is completely uncomprehensable, unless you already know all that. i'm sorry.

[Guest aeser]

if i were you i'd buy in the following order:

 

computer

software (digital audio workstation software as well as at least one versatile software instrument)

controller

monitors

audio/midi interface

hardware sampler

mixer

effects

synth(s)

anything else your heart desires.

[Guest LJG]

it's a journey. it can be rewarding, it can be painful, it can be many things. but you can be sure it's quite an expensive journey :)

 

aux - you send an amount of any signal (channel for example) to one the auxilary busses and you have the auxilary buss output connected to your effect's "input". then it's up to you how you handle the effect's output. you can connect it to another input channel, most mixers have a few 'smaller' (in terms of functionality) channels for that, called 'aux returns' or 'effect returns'. one example use of aux effecting could be reverb, you send different amounts of your channels' signals to the aux buss, they are mixed to that buss, then the mixed signal goes into reverb, gets reverberated and then put out into the mixer's stereo channel (where you don't send it back to that same aux, cause that would make a feedback loop... okay you might want to do that sometimes, but that's another story). you usually set the effect to output only 'wet' signal (as opposed to 'dry') so you can se the level of actual reverb on your mixer.

you could visualize that kind of effect connection as "parallel".

 

insert - you connect a single signal (well okay or buss, which can contain mixed signals) to an effect, in series (serial). that means that you disconnect the previous signal path and insert the effect in between. typical use would be a compressor. or distortion. you can also use reverb, but then you'd mustn't set the reverb unit to 'dry' only, but somewhere in between, otherwise you wouldn't hear the original signal, just the reverb.

 

okay, i understand this is completely uncomprehensable, unless you already know all that. i'm sorry.

 

LOLOLOL no worries there... I can see the principles at least, and the rest is up to a bit of hands on...

 

aux effects basically incorporate that effect into the mixer itself... plug it into a effect send and plug the output into the aux input and you can use that effect on every mixer channel via a knob on the mixer. so you could have one reverb unit and use it on every channel in varying degrees by using the aux knobs on each channel

 

well that the basic way to use them... like kokoon said, you can do things like plug an aux effect's output into another channel (rather than the aux-in) and do things like adding delay TO a channel which IS the outputted delay :angry:

 

Good summary, and YES working with the odd tweaks is really where the process is for me. I think the best example was when I was trying to do a transition in a song on the EMX, realized I couldn't easily program fills and didn't want to waste a whole pattern just to make a fill. So I pressed the bloody stop button, and play the fill by hand on the drum triggers whilst switching to the next pattern with the dial. God, it's all so simple if you just take the direct route, which I really don't mind so much. Experimentation is a blast.

 

BTW here's one mixer I'm looking AT. Even though a preposition is the wrong thing to end a sentence WITH.

 

Behringer Xenyx something or other

 

Pretty spiffy, if you're not George Martin. I reckon. Thoughts?

[kokoon]

behringers seem to offer tons of (much needed) functionality for the price, but once you touch the cheap plastic fader/knob caps, once you see the unaligned leds under the holes, once you try to tweak a few knobs and not even 2 offer same tactile feedback... then you say okay, it's made cheaply but i knew that and that's why i bought it. then channels start to die on you. first it's the eq. then the preamp...

i never had one (behringer mixer) but i've seen other people's.

 

so that's why i decided for yamaha, specifically mg24/14fx. i know it's not in the same class as the behringer you've shown, but maybe try the new yamaha's mg series. the 20 channel mixer looks really sweet and it even has 8 channel compressors built in.

 

not sure, but when i was buying mine, peavey was the only serious alternative. cheap, built slightly worse than yamaha (imo) but supposedly reliable and loaded with functions. also check out soundcraft in your price range.

 

you won't get anything as loaded with knobs as behringer for any price you choose. but do some research, you don't want a behringer.

[kokoon]

16 channels with usb and effects:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yam...ects?sku=630258

 

just the 16 channels:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yam...sion?sku=630256

[Guest Dr. Elemeno von Hat X: PhD]

i have a yamaha mg16/6fx and i love it.

 

my first mixer, which i still have, is a behringer eurorack mxb1002. it's still soldering on without a glitch, bless the lil' bugger. i use it for overflow from the yamaha.

 

 

i dunno. someone told me the real old cheap behringers (which i suppose this is) were actually decent, but after that they turned to crap.

[Guest LJG]

I was actually looking at those Yamahas as well. I once had a yamaha 4-track recorder, and it was built like a tank, very solid, very reliable, all that. I think you prolly have a good point there. Gonna have to save a bit more money...

 

I'm beginning to realise that these next few steps are really going to change things. I'm by now fairly used to working with the EMX which has all of your synth stuff and sequencing right under the hood. As I'm looking at things like the Radias and the Nord, I'm realizing that sequencing will be a new ball game. I tell you, if only those emx's were polyphonic I'd prolly buy a six pack.

[Guest Vegeta897]

Guess this would be a good time to ask:

 

What is the best option for simple pattern sequencing devices if I have a few keyboard synths? Would something like that Yamaha RX7000 or whatever it's called be able to sequencer several keyboard synths at once on different channels? (As well as its own internal sound engine)

[Guest LJG]

Guess this would be a good time to ask:

 

What is the best option for simple pattern sequencing devices if I have a few keyboard synths? Would something like that Yamaha RX7000 or whatever it's called be able to sequencer several keyboard synths at once on different channels? (As well as its own internal sound engine)

 

Actually I've heard of people using my EMX-1 for sequencing, as you get multiple channels and 8 bars of 16 steps with all the other goodies built in. Never tried it myself though. You may want to peek at the pdf manual

and see what you think.

[Guest Vegeta897]

So by using the thru function on each of my synths to daisy chain 'em up, and having them set to different channels, the a sequencer is able to tell each synth what to do?

[YEK]

dude, get a qy-700 for sequencing your synths.

 

*ejaculates*

 

totally.