Mattson Mini Modular - Phoenix Series

[kokoon]

it's being revealed on matrixsynth right now, module by module!

 

things known so far: smaller than frac, in fact it looks like 2HE rectangular!

 

uses 3.5mm jacks

 

apparently it doesn't use "knobs" but something else! and we're supposed to find out today!

 

 

and it's U.S. based. too bad, but it looks like a *CHEAP* system, like cheaper than PAiA!

[kokoon]

awesome huh?

 

[BCM]

they look like knobs to me.....

[kokoon]

yeah. well not exactly knobs, but pots. the idea is that you buy the knobs you like yourself. or you don't.

 

looks like it's going to be really cheap, i can't wait!

[BCM]

will it work in the UK?

[kokoon]

it will work in UK but the voltages levels and power supply standard isn't known yet. but it's supposed to be the next bit of info we get :)

[BCM]

hmmmmm, interesting..... i may look into one of these - what do you reckon the price will be £200 - £400 maybe?

[Guest Adjective]

i'm intrigued by the stripped down cosmetics and the mattson guy stressing "cheap" in one of the comments

 

i'm sure "cheap" is still too much for me though

[BCM]

not if you steal it.

[kokoon]

i'd say like less than half the doepfer's price. but that's wishful thinking.

[Guest iep]

yeah. well not exactly knobs, but pots. the idea is that you buy the knobs you like yourself. or you don't.

 

haha, weak, i was expecting some electronic music sensor-based interface stuff.

 

shame about the 1/8" jack based design tho... for compact synths, i rather see a pin matrix. might cost a bit more than 1/8" but in the long term it's cheaper. but yeah this guy seems to be going for the behringer approach anyway.. coupled with (so far) boring cookiecutter modules, i can't say this looks interesting....

[Guest analogue wings]

Yay another module format.

[kokoon]

 

yeah. well not exactly knobs, but pots. the idea is that you buy the knobs you like yourself. or you don't.

 

haha, weak, i was expecting some electronic music sensor-based interface stuff.

 

shame about the 1/8" jack based design tho... for compact synths, i rather see a pin matrix. might cost a bit more than 1/8" but in the long term it's cheaper. but yeah this guy seems to be going for the behringer approach anyway.. coupled with (so far) boring cookiecutter modules, i can't say this looks interesting....

we might be talking different things, but ... do you know how much a Synthi-type matrix costs? it's ... expensive. and only offers just a limited amount of routings.

 

as for 3.5 jacks... i find it a blessing. i always saw the whole 3.5/6.3mm thing so that US modulars are 6.3mm and EU ones are 3.5mm and now there's a new US modular with small jacks, that's great!

 

i think the modules will be interesting enough... let me paste some more info, maybe you'll change your opinion:

There's nothing on the internet because this is the first ever it's been announced. It's a planned exclusive information release. Any resources have been bot-blocked until Saturday.

 

Let it play out, have fun with the info and don't stress out. The best is coming. None of you have a clue yet of the entire concept. You'll be surprised, some will be pissed, some will hate it. Others will love it. That's normal. It's a huge world and everybody has pre-conceived concepts of what should be. I designed this a certain way for a reason for the people that can use it. So, bitch about it if you have the facts. None of you do. I've always tried to have fun with everything I do and I expect others to have fun too. Life's too short to be streseed out and dissenting. If I have a skill that can bring a little joy to others, I'm willing to go the extra mile to use it.

 

I will say- It's U.S. based.

 

George Mattson

It is? well, sonoffab-- LOL Oh, well. nothing official since I am the only real info source.

 

I will say this- the knob guy...I am really, really sorry. There aren't any. Well, one, but it's whatever I can find to stick on there. You'll see it Friday. Well, the one I had. I actually stole it from a parts Syntar. It worked, I got the part.

 

You'll understand. The first module with a variable control will be up today.

 

George Mattson- back to work.

First, I'm real busy trying to get ready for Saturday but.

1: Don't call me Mr. My name is George. I respect the title but, it isn't necessary. I may be old, cantankerous and a curmudgeon. but "Mr" sounds too formal. I've been one of you guys longer than most of you have been one of you guys. We all love synths and what we can do with them.

 

2: What's the buffer good for? A lot. One of my design synth-geek quirks; I don't like mutiples-period, never did, never will build one. I've been patching analog for 37 years. They degrade the signal when used as a splitter and they sum the signals when used as a mixer-possibly overloading the input of the next stage.

 

If you don't care about your CV or audio signal quality- that's your philosophy. Go ahead and wire a bunch of jacks together.

 

The buffer is a 4 channel buffered splitter. 2 outputs of the input signal that's buffered, rejuvenated, and EXACTLY the same as the channel signal. The output signal of each channel is normalled to the next channel down.

Put a signal into the channel 1 input you get eight little signal clones available to stick wherever you want them- Audio or CV. It doesn't care. No signal degradation.

 

If you put a signal into-say, channel 3. The signal is available on the channel 3 and channel 4 outputs while the channel 1 signal is still available on the channel 1 and channel 2 outputs. Kind of a user-patchable variable-number-of-outputs splitter. The number of outputs is entirely dependent on how you plug them in.

 

Most people, especially the new guys, get hooked on the "how many oscillators does it have" type of mentality without thinking about how they're going to control those oscillators. If you can't control it, you can't use it and you just spent money on a standby.

 

This module helps with that.

 

OK, I'm done being curmudgeony. :)

 

George Mattson

I agree, glow in the dark panels would be cooool. Wish I'd thought of it, thanks for the idea. Actually, the graphics are a slight yellow.

 

I don't recall seeing "Phoenix Series" on the buffer. The name has a purpose.

 

For all of you "It doesn't have....You should have....You call that a knob..." people:

 

No, I don't call it a knob, didn't call it a knob...AND- It's not a knob, I agree with you. I told you there's only one. And, I'll slam myself on this one too. The one knob is a cheap, sleezy knob at that.

 

Premise 2:

 

Why? I don't care. Shocked? Let me explain.

 

The system is cheap. Yes, I used the word. I love sound, I love creating sound. I don't love paying for acid-etched, screen printed graphics or flashy knobs, etc. I designed this system by stripping all of the cost sucking cosmetics off the thing. I don't want to pay for something that has no bearing on the sound. I don't want to charge a customer a big markup for something they don't want or, not like "my" version of what looks good. That's a highly personallized call and subject to personal taste. It doesn't affect the sound or function any. I use my ears to create sound. I don't stare at the synth. When I listen to a CD or a radio, I can't see the instruments being used. If you're serious about cosmetics. Peter, Paul, Cyndi, etc have wonderful products that look awesome. Buy them. I'd give my eye teeth, if I still had them, for some of their gear.

 

Good product, good stuff. Kudo's. It's a lot of work to bring that stuff to the market. And, they do it well.

 

Premise 3: Buy your own knobs. You know what you like, you can buy your perfect knob and do it cheaper than paying for what I could have offered. Chances are good you would have replaced them anyway. The sad part is: Knobs cost almost as much or more than the control they're attached to. Somebody is making money for "pretty"

 

The dust caps cost less than a penny. They provide the necessary function: Tactile positioning of the control, and gives you finger space to do it. I don't charge for knobs, but-hey, you're not paying for it.

 

I have 2 design slogans:

I'm thinking "inside" the box.

and

You don't get what you don't pay for.

 

You guys catching on?

 

Another hint. With the exception of Friday's module. This is true, 100% analog.

 

On to graphics:

I designed them using a freeware graphics program and printed them on my printer. They work.

 

The link to the program and the entire graphics files will be available on the web site Saturday. If you want to be creative, do your own, have contests, doctor it up, I don't care. It won't sound any different. It will look the way you like it. I just did these so we know what the controls do. That helps.

An added bonus. Remember the "swiss cheese" panel? Here they are. Every single-space module uses the same panel- even the blanks. 1 setup fee, lots of the same thing. Guess what?- lower cost. If you feel like re-doing your graphics, move the controls around to where it makes sense to you and makes you happy. Every control can go in any hole in that 4X4 matrix. The graphics cover the unused holes.

 

So, dress it up however you like. If that's your thing. Some people love that stuff. Otherwise. The system looks "OK" and all of the external "stuff" does what it's supposed to.

 

I have to eat some lunch.

 

George Mattson

 

To the voltages guy. I'll answer that next.

I wrote this big voltage thing, jumped to one of your profiles and lost the whole thing. I'll try to be brief.

 

System power:

120VAC/240VAC switch selectable internally.

 

Board power: +/-15VDC

 

Bi-polar signals: +/- 5VDC or, 10V P-P if you prefer that notation.

 

Unipolar CV: 0 to 5VDC

 

Module output impedance= 1k-ohms

 

Input impedance= 100K-ohms

 

Precision CV control inputs 1V/Oct

 

So, it's electrically compatible and cross-patchable to everyone else currently in production. Well, the majority of them. I'm not re-inventing the wheel. uh-the spokes and rim are still there anyway. maybe the hub and a bearing.

 

Kraenk-It will be fully assembled, tested, tweaked, burned in, etc, etc, etc.

 

Basically, I'm building a paper doll. The stuff that comes with it are OK but not high-fashion.

It looks good and can stand on it's own as-is. But, I'm not going crazy focusing on that. So, if you don't care and are more focused on experimenting with your craft, fine. If you need high-profile glitz, the opportunity to dress it up is also there. Either is OK. So. Yes and no on DIY

 

 

$19.95/ module? Great, I'll bid on all that you have. LOL. I guess I shouldn't have used the "C" word. Let's say inexpensive instead.

 

The "Not U.S. Guy" That's a sore spot. I designed it for dual supply and RoHs compliance. Unfortunately, I don't like paying a guy money just because he's standing on a border any more than I like paying for a knob. Told you I was a cantankerous curmudgeon.

 

If the demand is there, and I have a feeling it will be, we'll get all of the beaurocratic stuff figured out. So, sorry, but hold on. You'll just have to wait a little longer. I have a LOT to do.

 

I want all of you to realize: This is my passion. I love doing it. I think others, especially the entry-level guys should have the opportunity to get into it. This is my chance to give back to the synth community. It looks OK, but, I've been designing and patching synths a long time. I think I know a few tricks. That's why I jumped on to explain the buffer. Yes, it's something new. It's not a high-profile module that people will drool over right away. The people that have been working with analog modulars a lot will understand the importance of such a device in the "creative and controllability" environment. But, If you determine you want a system with a bunch of modules without having a clue as to the signal and CV support structure, you need to talk to us. We're a large communuty with a lot of helpful information. If one of us doesn't have an answer, one of the others will and we'll all learn

 

I need to get back to it.

 

Thanks guys

 

George Mattson

:)

The oscillator and filter will be shown Thursday.

 

To be honest, guys. We're doing it this way because it is important for people to understand the modules, what they do and what you can do with them. This slows the pace and allows us the opportunity to discuss this stuff individually. Not just slam you with the whole thing all at once and have to jump back and forth confusing what we said about what module and which module did that? Really, Matrix was really cool allowing this to go down this way. If you're impatient and want to rip the paper off the package, sorry. I'm going against every marketing, sales and manufacturing "textbook" crap that I can. My wife has her BS in business and says I'm nuts. Now I know what the BS means.

 

The modules aren't anything spectacular. Just good, solid, basic, true analog 30 year old technology brought up to date with readily available components. But, I put "me" into it. The mixer coming up is a mixer. So, what? it mixes-gosh. I made it so it mixes CV or analog. It doesn't care. Remember the old EML center tapped pots where you could morph from one thing to another to another? This is what the mixer does. Gee. Put 4 different cv's into one of the 4 channels and you can mix CV's. Morph them however you want. (take those to the buffer and run them to simultaneously to the filter, oscillator, VCA.) It has simultaneously available normal and inverting outputs. But, While I was throwing it together, My sound mixing days came back to me and I added a "punch-in" for each channel. I shouldn't have to explaing what the importance of "that" little feature can help do.

 

So, as I was putting this stuff together, If I could add a cool feature just by tapping the circuit and adding a wire, switch, a couple components or whatever, I did it. It's simple, adds to the versatility and wasn't a big cost sucker.

 

If I needed to re-design the entire basic circuit and add a bunch of stuff that made it more expensive, I didn't do it. Some of the more expensive features hardly ever get used anyway.

 

One other clue: All of the modules will cost the same. I don't care if it's a VCO or the infamous "why a whole module for noise" source. That allows you to truly build a system that does the most for what you have instead of going "lets see, I need that, but, I only have money for this, so, I'll fill in this gaping hole" just because that's all of the budget they have. Then, never need the module and still have a need for the module they couldn't afford.

 

I want people to think before they order. Plan it out. I know I lose money on the VCO's, but other necessary modules buffer that out. Everything evens out over a well thought-out system.

 

One other clue: I won't have dealers, or even wholesalers. I'm going direct, internet-only sales. I don't like someone making just as much as I did just to let a product sit on their shelf. So, forget it. Guess what, I don't charge for that loss either. Absolutely no middle-men. I'll explain it all later.

 

I'm really behind on getting these pix done.

 

George Mattson

Actually, I have one BIG knob for all of you. LOL

 

Pass it around, send it to friends, tell them it will bring bad luck if they don't make 10 copies and get them sent in 3 minutes. You guys are great! Thanks for the laughs and the support.

 

The "punch-in" buttons are latching. One way or another. Another "honesty" moment along with another hint. I had to run to R*d*o S*a*k and get those for the pic. Somebody mentioned delegation. OK, let me ask you for your help. The original switches were too big, too ugly and too costly. I need a small, Push-on, push off pushbutton switch that will fit a (wait for it....) 1/4" round hole. Looks really cool, doesn't cost a lot (minimal)and doesn't stick out the back of the panel more than 5/8". Preferably, something that let's you visualize whether it's in or out. I know they exist. but damned if I can find them readily available without whoring out and buying a s**tload at a time.

 

I'll find them, but if any of you have a "ready" resource, it would help me take care of more important stuff without wasting a lot of time. I thank you in advance.

 

Since I told you the hole size, the pot shafts are 1/8" There's knobs available that will fit them, you just have to judge how big your fingers are to use them comfortably. Then, find what you like with your specs in mind. They're not really necessary unless you really, really have to have some. Then by all means-go ahead.

 

Did I mention the Web site will have a BBS/Forum? All of our resources can be pooled on how to find what, how to do this or that. Graphics files, DIY links, places to go to get "real" panels if you really want to blow cash on sexing up the system, etc.

 

I'm not just bringing up a new system and trying to break into the manufacturing game. I've done it before. It was always business-and slooooow.

 

I plan on being interactive and working and helping the people who really need the support. Maybe not all the time, I can't build these things if I'm hanging out on the BBS. That wouldn't be too good. But, I have some well known, synth community guru's lined up to help out as moderators.

 

Man, what an opportunity. I wish this stuff was around 27 years ago.

 

And one other hint. I don't want to give away too much. The format will not be physically compatible with the other guys. Oh my God!! Oh, the humanity. Sorry. As I said, there's a reason. But, There are guys out there who make "mock" panels in whatever format you want. I'll even post links on the BBS. Make one up. Mount the board on it and put it in your other system. Or, if you're not comfortable doing that. There's people who can help you out.

 

I've said more than I had planned. I always was a blabber mouth. :)

 

We'll put up the analog glide module next.

 

George Mattson

I guess I just don't understand the "photoshopped" comments.

 

These are actual pix of the modules, then, I crop out the stuff around them with a basic program that came free with my camera. I don't have photoshop.

 

Anyway, As this proves. I can't be the judge of what everybody wants. So I provided a means of allowing the owner to make it what they want.

 

I'm more concerned with what the circuits do.

 

I'll get the next one ready anyway LOL.

 

George Mattson

 

Oh, yeah, the boards are parallel to the panel. The panel components connect to the board with identical-length jumpers designed so any control can fit in any of the 16 available spots without having to remove cables. Simple, Easy.

 

Are the slots "really" that big? or is it a perception thing? :)

 

G

[ten fingers ten toes]

I would have preferred cheap dotcom format modules, because really, who needs another module format?

 

I guess it remains to be seen how affordable these will be. I sure hope the CV is +5/-5

[kokoon]

System power:

120VAC/240VAC switch selectable internally.

 

Board power: +/-15VDC

 

Bi-polar signals: +/- 5VDC or, 10V P-P if you prefer that notation.

 

Unipolar CV: 0 to 5VDC

 

Module output impedance= 1k-ohms

 

Input impedance= 100K-ohms

 

Precision CV control inputs 1V/Oct

[ten fingers ten toes]

Hmm, well that's good I suppose. So far nothing too exciting though.

 

God why another damn format though? Really, people should consolidate EVERYTHING into two categories:

 

1/8" - Doepfer, MMM, PAiA, Frac-Rack

 

1/4" - MOTM, Dotcom, AS, Serge? I think they might use bannana though

 

ok a thrid category:

 

Bizarroland - Buchla

[ten fingers ten toes]

So the final pricing was released and it's hardly a bargain...

 

For $1600 you get a portable case with:

 

1x Oscillator

1x Glide

1x Buffer

1x Sample & Hold

1x Dual LFO

1x 4 channel mixer

1x Midi -> CV

1x VCF

1x VCA

1x Noise

1x EG

 

That's basically what you'd pay for a Dotcom system with the same functionality. Actually, if you don't buy a super-snazzy walnut cabinet from Dotcom and build your own out of plywood for $50, then you save $500 off of that price. And you can't buy MMM modules seperately, they don't do anything even remotely different than your average monosynth from 1971 (other than MIDI), and if you want to fill out the cabinet initially (and you better, since they won't sell you modules after you buy), it'll cost you $2800. I mean, if you want the portability that's great, but otherwise it's in no way the great bargain that was promised initially. While $105 a module seems like a great deal at first (VCO's and VCA's usually go for $150-200), everything else is way overpriced. $105 for a noise source? You can't even sync the Osc's...

 

It's just very frustrating, in fact, the whole world of modular synths is very frustrating at the moment. With like 7 different competing formats, and everything scattered around the globe and poorly distributed, with hardly any standards. I wish a person with this much drive and ambition could have done something to boost an existing format into something more of a widely accepted standard.

[ten fingers ten toes]

It seems Matrixsynth has been turned into some kind of bizarre marketing platform now:

 

matrix said...

Now that the cat's out of the bag I can finally join in a bit. I put an order in for a base system a while back. Several months actually. : ) And.... I played it. The first time the prototype ever produced a sound was at my place and... it sounded good. The images do a decent job at showing the size of the system, but having it right in front of you is a totally different experience. George downplayed the graphics, but I actually think the look very nice. I won't be changing mine. The fact that it is so portable in that you can just close the case and go is pretty amazing. It will definitely turn into the default modular on the go for me.

 

Also, the latches are built so you can stack and lock cases. So you can quickly assemble a modular wall and of course take it down just as quickly.

 

As for the modules they offer a bit more than the bread and butter starter systems out there. IMO it's a starter system with quite a bit more. The fact that you can run all three waveforms on the OSC at different octaves will be interesting. Loopable envs, the MIDI PS, and so on. Really powerful for the price and the size.

 

Note this is the announcement but more will be coming. Samples, more in depth explanations of what you can do with the modules and so on. I'm hoping and am pretty sure some of the other early adopters will come forth and start discussing what they are doing with the system as well. I'm really interested in hearing from Carbon111 who has spent a good amount of time with the Serge. When we were checking out the modular for the first time he was genuinely surprised at some of what you could do with the system.

[enki]

I find it very odd that no sound samples have been posted as of yet. It's certainly a very cute-looking system (in an ugly sort of way), but it is a synthesizer for fuck's sake. Let us hear the goddamn thing, then there will at least be the possibility of a semi-meaningful discussion about it, not that I would really expect that sort of thing.

[Guest analogue wings]

LOL flamewar on Analogue Heaven:

 

What are those "knobs"?!!

 

No PWM on the VCO?

 

I could go on......but no.

 

Hi John,

 

I don't see why you want to diss my stuff,

 

I really like yours.

[ten fingers ten toes]

Maybe it's because he staged a week long publicity stunt building up to the biggest letdown in analogue history. For the same price as all the other guys, you get about 50% less functionality, but hey, it comes in a convenient little carrying case so that's awesome am I right guys?

[kokoon]

you are right. it's too expensive for what it is. it would be totally okay if he went with the "classic sounding, high-profile, handmade in the US, boutique, limited edition, ..." modular system, from the start. but instead he was saying it's a CHEAP system, most of all. well, it's not. even for EU residents, given the current USD/EUR ratio, doepfer offers FAR better price/features ratio.

 

i kinda like the retro looks, can't wait to hear the samples, but it's very unlikely i'll ever buy it.

[ten fingers ten toes]

Audio is up... sounds ok....

 

They were realy proud of the one VCO out to the mixer but I don't get why. It doesnt sound bad just not special??

[kokoon]

haha yeah i don't get it either... "the waveforms are perfectly synced" ... no shit :D

 

there's absolutely NO option of anymating the waveforms, either by combining detuned ones or pwm. or some dynamic waveshaping. a bold move, i have to give him that. and it really doesn't sound bad. but man... it's a freakin monosynth! single osc, single filter, single envelope... we already knew how's that gonna sound right?

[ten fingers ten toes]

Everyone wants to make EML-101 comparisons, but the filter is a brand new design. How is an analogue monosynth going to sound like another using a completely different filter design? Bizarre.