Guest boo Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 i love the arturia minimoog v though.. i've got another minimoog vst but i can't remember who makes it. G-Media Minimonsta? I slightly prefer the sound of the filter on this one, and I think it has more flexible modulation options as well. G-media's filters are really nice. i especially like impOSCar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 why shouldn't a vst be able to re-create such unreliable behaviour? arturia uses loads of algorhythms to simulate the detuning of the original CS80-components and the 'drifting' of the sound.. that's exactly the thing that makes some of those emulations so exciting.. some vst's/VAs even have elaborate options to control the stability of the synth.. The Arturia CS80V is wicked, but it sounds nothing like a CS80... It's like the Moog clones - they can do a lot of the classic Moog sounds but they never actually sound like Moogs... Even the Creamware Minimax - great Moog clone - still sounds more like a Virus than any Moog I've ever heard though. Everything about the CS synths is pure wierdness - the components look like lumps of melted playdoh with bits of wire and brown tubes sticking out of them... The whole concept of translating real world physics, like the effects of resistance, em interferance, overdrive, on electric signals is pretty much impossible without actually modelling the whole thing at the Plank scale and tracking the path of each electron... So it's more a case of taking a standard digital synth engine and tweaking various aspects of it, like the tone, filter characteristics, chorus, etc... until it sounds close enough. Even an SH101 is impossible to model... The way the wave changes over time and when you alter the pitch and amp settings is totally nonlinear - so there's no equation you can apply to a square wave to get those effects... So again, you just have to take a standard synth model and tweak it until it sounds good enough. (none on hiscores as far as i can tell.. in fact, i've never heard a cs80 in any boc..).. I've got a CS70 and you can nail most BOC melodies on it easily - very few you can't nail... Some of them could be JP8, OB8 or Memory Moog, but the Hiscores synth line is that sound I've never heard off any other synth... Can only be a CS or GX1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iep Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 why shouldn't a vst be able to re-create such unreliable behaviour? arturia uses loads of algorhythms to simulate the detuning of the original CS80-components and the 'drifting' of the sound.. that's exactly the thing that makes some of those emulations so exciting.. some vst's/VAs even have elaborate options to control the stability of the synth.. The Arturia CS80V is wicked, but it sounds nothing like a CS80... It's like the Moog clones - they can do a lot of the classic Moog sounds but they never actually sound like Moogs... Even the Creamware Minimax - great Moog clone - still sounds more like a Virus than any Moog I've ever heard though. Everything about the CS synths is pure wierdness - the components look like lumps of melted playdoh with bits of wire and brown tubes sticking out of them... The whole concept of translating real world physics, like the effects of resistance, em interferance, overdrive, on electric signals is pretty much impossible without actually modelling the whole thing at the Plank scale and tracking the path of each electron... So it's more a case of taking a standard digital synth engine and tweaking various aspects of it, like the tone, filter characteristics, chorus, etc... until it sounds close enough. Yeah, true. It would be great if a bunch of different software devs came together and made such a low-level simulation of (analogue) electronics. Would be even better if it that simulation would be open-source. Such a simulation would be very useful in a wide range of applications, actually. But I guess it would be a huuuge project. I've got a CS70 Nice..! Never heard one; you have some sample online, per chance? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosca Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 i have them all except the new one (which is on its way to me woo hoo) cs80 - nice - cpu hog arp - nice - not great moogs - nice, mini is better than modular take a look at minimonsta - it's fucking top! IMO mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Nice..! Never heard one; you have some sample online, per chance? ;) I did make some ages ago and i think i posted them here??? might have been before the forum down time... right now i'm sorry to say i can't even use it... it's up on the top floor of my house waiting to be re-homed somewhere - thought about selling it because it's so impractical - can't even move it down to my studio because it's too heavy and would take over the room... i also never had the stand for it so it has to live on the floor great synth though - i bought it real cheap just after i got into BOC - then couldn't use it as everything i did with it sounded like BOC... it's like a Minimoog, you can't help playing in a certain style of melody on it... even the way it smells is really unique to that synth worst thing is it doesn't record well for some reason... some synths like the Juno and Sh101 record pretty well just plugged straight into a soundcard, but the Pro One and CS sound like crap when you record them... you really lose something from the original sound - it comes out sounding all undefined and murky, and then it's really awkward to work into a mix i think sort of dynamic convolution technology might be the way to go emulating this stuff - like run the convoluton process on the amp section, the filters, the gain stages, etc... maybe right down to the wiring that connects the whole thing together - then run the oscillators off multi-samples maybe with some kind of morphing technology to go between the pitches smoothely... and of course, you'll still need to model the way the sound changes - maybe some new convolution process which was more time-dependant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylonbitch Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 there's still no cs-80 on any boc as far as i can tell. most of the work on the sounds seems to be done with post processing, rather than 'out of the box' sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 i have them all except the new one (which is on its way to me woo hoo) cs80 - nice - cpu hog arp - nice - not great moogs - nice, mini is better than modular take a look at minimonsta - it's fucking top! IMO mo is the minimonsta better then the minimoog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iep Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Nice..! Never heard one; you have some sample online, per chance? ;) I did make some ages ago and i think i posted them here??? might have been before the forum down time... right now i'm sorry to say i can't even use it... it's up on the top floor of my house waiting to be re-homed somewhere - thought about selling it because it's so impractical - can't even move it down to my studio because it's too heavy and would take over the room... i also never had the stand for it so it has to live on the floor Damn, that's a shame. CS's are fucking heavy indeed :)) great synth though - i bought it real cheap just after i got into BOC - then couldn't use it as everything i did with it sounded like BOC... it's like a Minimoog, you can't help playing in a certain style of melody on it... even the way it smells is really unique to that synth worst thing is it doesn't record well for some reason... some synths like the Juno and Sh101 record pretty well just plugged straight into a soundcard, but the Pro One and CS sound like crap when you record them... you really lose something from the original sound - it comes out sounding all undefined and murky, and then it's really awkward to work into a mix That's just the quality of your AD-converters; what kinda soundcard do you use? i think sort of dynamic convolution technology might be the way to go emulating this stuff - like run the convoluton process on the amp section, the filters, the gain stages, etc... maybe right down to the wiring that connects the whole thing together - then run the oscillators off multi-samples maybe with some kind of morphing technology to go between the pitches smoothely... and of course, you'll still need to model the way the sound changes - maybe some new convolution process which was more time-dependant That surely is alot easier than modelling the exact physical properties of the electronica. But it wouldn't be as dynamic as pure code-representations of the circuits and such, I guess.. you'll have to depend on the quality and the diversity of the multi-samples probably.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Nice..! Never heard one; you have some sample online, per chance? ;) I did make some ages ago and i think i posted them here??? might have been before the forum down time... right now i'm sorry to say i can't even use it... it's up on the top floor of my house waiting to be re-homed somewhere - thought about selling it because it's so impractical - can't even move it down to my studio because it's too heavy and would take over the room... i also never had the stand for it so it has to live on the floor Damn, that's a shame. CS's are fucking heavy indeed :)) great synth though - i bought it real cheap just after i got into BOC - then couldn't use it as everything i did with it sounded like BOC... it's like a Minimoog, you can't help playing in a certain style of melody on it... even the way it smells is really unique to that synth worst thing is it doesn't record well for some reason... some synths like the Juno and Sh101 record pretty well just plugged straight into a soundcard, but the Pro One and CS sound like crap when you record them... you really lose something from the original sound - it comes out sounding all undefined and murky, and then it's really awkward to work into a mix That's just the quality of your AD-converters; what kinda soundcard do you use? i think sort of dynamic convolution technology might be the way to go emulating this stuff - like run the convoluton process on the amp section, the filters, the gain stages, etc... maybe right down to the wiring that connects the whole thing together - then run the oscillators off multi-samples maybe with some kind of morphing technology to go between the pitches smoothely... and of course, you'll still need to model the way the sound changes - maybe some new convolution process which was more time-dependant That surely is alot easier than modelling the exact physical properties of the electronica. But it wouldn't be as dynamic as pure code-representations of the circuits and such, I guess.. you'll have to depend on the quality and the diversity of the multi-samples probably.. I think the problem is trying to bridge that gap between real world physics and maths... There was this rf circuit testing engineer over on pro sound web one time talking about just how impossible it really is at present to simulate a single analog component adequately... He was saying it's really a case of tweaking until they kind of work for crude simulations. Yeah, it's a conversion thing for sure... I used to use an RME Multiface for recording analogue gear, which has great sounding convertors for recordings things like acoustic guitars and vocals - but whether I was using that or the old M-Audio or emi, it still lost that something and made it difficult to work with... There's all sorts of wierd things that happen with conversion that a lot of people aren't aware of... Some very wierd things happen to high frequencies - just make an 11khz sine wave in soundforge at 44.1khz and you get this massive aliasing effect - creates all these unwanted extra frequencies - 15,023hz is wierd... i've found loads of them... and with synths like the Pro One and CS's, you get these ultrasonic frequencies which we're not able to distinguish consciously, or even pick up with the ear drum, but they have a huge affect on the quality of sound we hear... with conversion they're still actually there, slipping through the reconstruction filter, but they become chaotic as they fall inside and outside frames... called the transient switching effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 what the fuck? I dled the demo of the CS-80V, and I cant see a damn thing... every thing is so tiny. I had to change my screen resoluation to the lowest possible one, and it was only "decent" then. man, that really sucks big time... it sounded great, but itll make me go blind ism, how'd you deal with it being so tiny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Tech Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 I downloaded the cs80V and it's the best sounding va i've heard. it really does do instant ambient BOC type sounds. i was looking at the arp but this is ten times better (the arp had a bit harsher sound), and before this post i would have totally ignored it (mainly because i thought a soft modular would be better). (and the problem was is that the wrapper in FL hates arturia products so i jsut use it as a DXI). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 do you find it hard to see the text etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taxman Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 i just tried out the demo too. the text is a little small but i can read it without much trouble. is this constant cutting in and out a feature of the demo or is it due to my computer's inability to handle the plugin? :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrx Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 is this constant cutting in and out a feature of the demo or is it due to my computer's inability to handle the plugin? :\ yea, the fading in/out of the audio is part of the demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 i just tried out the demo too. the text is a little small but i can read it without much trouble. is this constant cutting in and out a feature of the demo or is it due to my computer's inability to handle the plugin? :\ don't worry, its just a demo thing I really wish you could construct a patch from scratch in the demo. im curious to just see how the feel of programming it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest taxman Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 i really wish i could get this for a reasonable price. it's without a doubt the best vst i've tried so far but i dont really want to spend an arm and a leg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrx Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 academicsuperstore.com has it for 140 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 damn, I don't know... I'm undecided on the minimoog, and the minimonsta. The monsta definately has more of a bite to it... but something about the minimoog just feels more natural. I'm not sure which I prefer... But damn, playing all of these emulations... I really haven't been inspired by any software synths like this before. Yeah, absynth and reaktor are all capable of so much, but just playability, and character... this are tops. I've just sat around all last night, and this morning, just jamming with these synths... I'm really excited. Since the prophet can't be demoed, I don't know... I don't want to buy something I can't try, unless I hear GREAT things. I definately want the CS-80V, and one of the moogs though (but still not decided on minimoog or minimonsta) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 so I just got the vintage collection (cs-80, arp 2600, minimoog, moog modular bundled at a discount price.... got it from jrrshop.com for $399 if anyone is interested... hurry though, cause there is low stock, and they won't be refilled, it was a limited thing from arturia I believe) anyways, after a very long installation process (had to get all sorts of updates for them to even run) I finally get them all working... and holy shit they are all lush as hell. Favorites are the CS-80 and the minimoog. I still need to read all the manuals and stuff, but just from fiddling around with them all, they sound great. Youll be hearing them in any (and probably all) of my new tracks :-D but yeah, id get on this deal while it lasts, at jrrshop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I think the arp2600v fucking rocks, I use it all the time. the timewArp is supposed to be much closer sounding (even emulating the noise that's coming out of the real arp synth, like other analogues, when it's idle) and recommended by the dude who made it. But i personally think the arp2600v has a peculiar sound that might not be a perfect copy of the original arp but really makes it fun to play with. I have to check the CS-80v out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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