IDF have told The Times they expect to invade Gaza this weekend.

[syd syside]

Again if you look at the context, his statement is hardly on the same level of "genocide" that Hamas calls for.

 

"The more qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," he said.

 

The Israeli government moved quickly to try to defuse the impact of Mr Vilnai's use of the sensitive term. His office put out a statement later trying to water down the meaning of the word.

"Mr. Vilnai was meaning 'disaster'," the statement said. "He did not mean to make any allusion to the genocide."

 

The foreign ministry also got involved seeking to downplay the linguistic faux pas.

"Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai used the Hebrew phrase that included the term 'shoah' in the sense of a disaster or a catastrophe, and not in the sense of a holocaust," Arye Mekel, Israel's foreign ministry spokesman, said.

 

I've seen so many images of apparent Gaza children from attacks posted on the internets and pretty much every single one so far has been old pictures taken in entirely different parts of the Middle East.

 

Here's an example and how even "liberal" western media is doing a poor job of objectively covering this: https://www.facebook...9&type=1&ref=nf

 

And a speech by Brigitte Gabriel's she made at duke university, which backs up the general tone of the MEMRI videos and shows the difference in attitude Israel and Arabic countries have on this issue :

 

"I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese speaking for Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

 

I was raised in Lebanon where I was taught that the Jews are evil, Israel is the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

 

When the Muslims and Palestinians declared jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

 

And on regards to Hamas

 

Canada, the EU, Israel, Japan, the UK, the US, and Australia designate Hamas as a terrorist organization. There's a big difference between some nations identifying them as a terrorist group and the majority or all doing so.

 

But hey, Since when do we listen to the United States and the European Union, right? They are too much like Israel after all, democratically open, liberal/cosmopolitan and culturally enlightened.

 

What we need is the opinion of the more Islamic states and the like, with their authoritarian dictatorships and more primitive notions of the rights of the individual and equality, yeah?

[eugene]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDj9u8eJoUU&feature=youtu.be

 

that's quite refreshing, i didn't expect al jazeera to cover rocket attacks on israel.

[Alcofribas]

Again if you look at the context, his statement is hardly on the same level of "genocide" that Hamas calls for.

 

"The more qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," he said.

 

The Israeli government moved quickly to try to defuse the impact of Mr Vilnai's use of the sensitive term. His office put out a statement later trying to water down the meaning of the word.

"Mr. Vilnai was meaning 'disaster'," the statement said. "He did not mean to make any allusion to the genocide."

 

The foreign ministry also got involved seeking to downplay the linguistic faux pas.

"Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai used the Hebrew phrase that included the term 'shoah' in the sense of a disaster or a catastrophe, and not in the sense of a holocaust," Arye Mekel, Israel's foreign ministry spokesman, said.

 

I've seen so many images of apparent Gaza children from attacks posted on the internets and pretty much every single one so far has been old pictures taken in entirely different parts of the Middle East.

 

Here's an example and how even "liberal" western media is doing a poor job of objectively covering this: https://www.facebook...9&type=1&ref=nf

 

And a speech by Brigitte Gabriel's she made at duke university, which backs up the general tone of the MEMRI videos and shows the difference in attitude Israel and Arabic countries have on this issue :

 

"I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese speaking for Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

 

I was raised in Lebanon where I was taught that the Jews are evil, Israel is the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

 

When the Muslims and Palestinians declared jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

 

you know damn well you're being disingenuous here. you've been posting all kinds of shocking passages about evil arabs calling for destruction of israel and here is the israeli government calling for "shoa," "flattening all of gaza," "sending gaza back to the middle ages," etc and all you can do is come up with excuses and talk about the "context." ridiculous!

 

and your complete disregard of the actual deaths of innocent palestinian children in this offensive is disturbing.

[SR4]

slightly offtopic, but whats the real deal with Menachim Begin? Ive heard everything from him being a hard-liner militant defender of Israel to being accused of insanity and claiming that all Muslims should be exterminated. Its hard to tell the real story with so much disinformation out there.

 

 

edit: Eugene, I promise I wont snap at you if you choose to clarify this for me. I really don't know anything about the guy.

[Alcofribas]

didn't he invent Menachim Sachim Robots or something?

[syd syside]

you know damn well you're being disingenuous here. you've been posting all kinds of shocking passages about evil arabs calling for destruction of israel and here is the israeli government calling for "shoa," "flattening all of gaza," "sending gaza back to the middle ages," etc and all you can do is come up with excuses and talk about the "context." ridiculous!

 

and your complete disregard of the actual deaths of innocent palestinian children in this offensive is disturbing.

 

I'm just posting the information. You are more than welcome to not believe/refute anything I have posted. I find selective quoting in regards to Awepittance post and Jeffero to be a poor way of portraying the context of what he meant. Which was not using the term as a aggressor but from a self defense standpoint. (If you guys cause harm to Israel, you will receive disaster)

 

You can claim I have done the same but you will need to provide some kind of proof that I am selectively quoting or taking Arab quotes out of context.

 

And I posted the stats of deaths just a couple posts ago. Six Gaza children have been killed. So no I am not disregarding it or omitting. I am putting this stuff up there and you can make up your own opinion as I have mine.

 

Israel does/says a lot of stupid shit as I said three posts ago in regards to Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai (scumbag).

 

I just also happen to think that Israel is less interested in killing Arabs as Arabs are interested in killing Israel. Which is evident by the cultural and religious extremities in Arabic regions because of their inferior and more oppressive state governments. A socially liberal/democracy will have a lot less radical beliefs because we can freely speak and discuss these topics without fear.

[Alcofribas]

there's a slight problem with your position though: israel kills WAY more innocent civilians than vice versa. so, either they are interested in killing arabs or they're not interested but they just really suck at not killing people.

[syd syside]

there's a slight problem with your position though: israel kills WAY more innocent civilians than vice versa. so, either they are interested in killing arabs or they're not interested but they just really suck at not killing people.

 

That's a pretty simplistic way to look at it when the nature of defense in this situation will come with collateral damage because of the tactics used by Hamas.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has accused Hamas of using Gaza's civilians, particularly children, as human shields by launching rockets from crowded residential areas.

 

And again, if you were politically in power and Israel was calling for defense against attacks, how would you handle the situation. The fact is this clusterfuck has no easy or moral pathway. And I think Israel wants as few innocent gaza deaths as possible as they are being ranked as tied with North Korea from international public opinion. Which is why they aren't just launching rockets into civilian populated areas FROM crowded residential areas like Hamas is doing. So those innocent gazas who get caught in the crossfire should be refuting Hamas's tactics and should protest against Hamas as they are certainly escalating the violence as well.

[eugene]

slightly offtopic, but whats the real deal with Menachim Begin? Ive heard everything from him being a hard-liner militant defender of Israel to being accused of insanity and claiming that all Muslims should be exterminated. Its hard to tell the real story with so much disinformation out there.

 

edit: Eugene, I promise I wont snap at you if you choose to clarify this for me. I really don't know anything about the guy.

don't know that much about him but still something i can tell without turning to wiki: even though irgun, which he lead in its later days, was a hardline nationalist jabotinsky-inspired paramilitary group it always pronounced its liberal core, such borderline racist comments seem unlikely from him. he was also the first israeli leader who made peace with arabs (egypt) (there's the "carter" variable, but still). his son (benny begin) who is in current likud government is very outspoken against various legislations that discriminate arabs that pop up from time to time.

[Guest Iain C]

So those innocent gazas who get caught in the crossfire should be refuting Hamas's tactics and should protest against Hamas as they are certainly escalating the violence as well.

 

*peers into Compson's skull*

 

"Yep, it's definitely turds. All the way down."

[syd syside]

Go join Hamas in their fight Lain if you truly think they are "good"

[Guest Iain C]

The only thing I'm asserting is that you have turds in your skull.

[syd syside]

[Guest Iain C]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8

 

Have you got a video that proves there are no turds in your skull. Unbiased sources only please.

[syd syside]

If you must know ive had an MRI done to check for cancer a year ago.

 

So can you kindly fuck off please or add something relevant to the conversation.

[Guest Iain C]

Got scans of that?

[Alcofribas]

when i beat my wife it's not because i want to, it's because bitchiness uses her body as a shield.

[Guest Iain C]

Do MRIs check for turds?

[Friendly Foil]

edit:

[brian trageskin]

A socially liberal/democracy will have a lot less radical beliefs because we can freely speak and discuss these topics without fear.

 

right, you can freely speak as long as you don't question israel's legitimacy.

you should see how zionists control the public opinion in france. it is simply impossible to say anything that doesn't fit the zionist standard. when you do so, you're simply demonized. great freedom of speech.

[eugene]

you and your zionists again, ill try again. meretz is an israeli zionist political party, it is very critical of the current gaza op and calls for negotiations with hamas from the very first day. likud, also a zionist israeli party that currently leads the governments conducts and supports this op. doesn't it make your mind explode ?

 

it's really hard for me to believe that there's less freedom of speech in france than in israel, because i constantly hear opinions from all spectrum regardless of the fact that centre-right is dominant and much more popular.

[brian trageskin]

you and your zionists again, ill try again. meretz is an israeli zionist political party, it is very critical of the current gaza op and calls for negotiations with hamas from the very first day. likud, also a zionist israeli party that currently leads the governments conducts and supports this op. doesn't it make your mind explode ?

 

nope.

by the way, i'm speaking from a french point of view, and i can tell that in france, all open debate is locked about the status of israel or jewish people in the world. you can't say anything "bad" about the jewish or else you get into trouble.

[syd syside]

A socially liberal/democracy will have a lot less radical beliefs because we can freely speak and discuss these topics without fear.

 

right, you can freely speak as long as you don't question israel's legitimacy.

you should see how zionists control the public opinion in france. it is simply impossible to say anything that doesn't fit the zionist standard. when you do so, you're simply demonized. great freedom of speech.

 

Paris had a demonstration in support of Gaza just the other day.

 

 

So yeah, by comparison to some parts of the world the rights we have are the best humanity has to offer right now for individuals. In NO way is it perfect nor are there not horrible examples of individual oppression, but I get the impression that if one is to bring forward actual support for western ideals compared to religious/authoritarian the conclusion is that it is rooted in racism or some kind of white supremacy. I've seen people suggest that the USA is more oppressive than Arabic nations. This is factually incorrect. Now the root of those authoritarian regimes can be and is rooted with Western imperialism. But by making some kind of equivocation that religious extreme authoritarian governments are no worse than the rights and freedoms we have here, it does a disservice to people who are suffering in those regions. Basically while our lives might be shitty over here with corporate power, we as individuals have more freedoms and it's odd to see so many "leftist" support Hamas or religious extremists and attack Christians in the US because they don't like gay marriage. It seems rooted in some kind of white guilt and I know by having this perspective I am open to be called a racist etc. I cannot control those feelings/impressions so at this point I simply don't care about it. I'm not here to feel good about myself but to present a much needed alternative look on our society because in the end I am against most/all institutional religions and Islam will be growing in support over the next decades. The West is simply not populating as much by comparison.

 

And in no way do I support what the US did in Afghanistan or Iraq. In fact I think those wars might have been started to pave way for sympathetic support of Islam, so that they can easily form communities in Europe, eventually leading to a more and more divided and destabilized society where our corporate powers can restrict and retract our freedoms more and more in the order of our security.

[brian trageskin]

but it think it's a very interesting fact you taught me, that 2 different zionist parties want to negotiate with hamas and cease bombing. i'm simply not drawing the conclusion that israel actually wants peace with palestinians

[roasty]