Obama Admin. admits to surveillance methods: Beating a Dead Horse Pt. 74

[DerWaschbar]

Re: Video. Really good work there John.

[delet...]

damn i must have missed that part of the new Guardian article about the NSA stealing e-mails BEFORE they were intentionally encrypted by the sender. So many kinds of fucked up I don't even know where to start.

 

so i guess if you truly want to send an encrypted message, you can't use any service provided by a big corporation, i think at this point it's safe to assume all of them are probably sharing this data BEFORE it's encrypted.

 

SO just out of curiosity, how can one send an encrypted e-mail at this point in time without the NSA reading it? I honestly wouldn't know how to do this, and im embarrassed because I probably should

https://mega.co.nz/

[Redruth]

the more reliant we become, the tighter we are spun into their little web

[DerWaschbar]

The more weight that becomes focused on one string the weaker the web becomes, dog.

 

Edit: dog.

[Guest]

..how can one send an encrypted e-mail at this point in time without the NSA reading it?

 

Even if you encrypt it, quantum computing will break your soul.

 

 

Skynet rising: Google acquires 512-qubit quantum computer; NSA surveillance to be turned over to AI machines

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html#ixzz2YoOl9fEg

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html

[awepittance]

i was just reading about these, apparently they only excel at one very specific type of math/problem solving.

[lumpenprol]

yeah, Skynet math

[Guest zaphod]

those quantum skynets will need to let off some steam. i bet they get bored hacking some nine year old's email and start brute forcing pay porn sites. someone's going to find site rips neatly arranged by fetish, that's when we'll know the AIs have won.

[lumpenprol]

*self-censorship, even though it was just words, you never know....*

[Guest zaphod]

neuromancer and wintermute bonded over their mutual love of sucking toes, and then joyrex banned them

[goDel]

 

..how can one send an encrypted e-mail at this point in time without the NSA reading it?

 

Even if you encrypt it, quantum computing will break your soul.

 

 

Skynet rising: Google acquires 512-qubit quantum computer; NSA surveillance to be turned over to AI machines

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html#ixzz2YoOl9fEg

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html

 

 

Wow, it's pretty harsh about Ray Kurzweil.

 

What kind of site is that anyways? It has news in it's name, but if you read the small letters...

 

 

 

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Truth publishing?

 

That Mike Adams...

[lumpenprol]

I would guess, since it's called Natural News, that it's some granola-eating hippie site promoting dubious herbal remedies that have no basis in scientific fact.

 

That, and paranoid apocalyptic visions of future robot takeover.

[goDel]

LOL

 

I'm seeing a new market. I'm gonna call myself a journalist and describe some sort of reality where the world is slowly being taken over by AI. Lets milk this sucker out! The computers are going to take over your brain with the speed of a zillion qubits!

 

* plays Akira soundtrack *

[awepittance]

Matmos makes a song about Edward Snowden

http://www.avclub.com/articles/matmos-covers-bow-wow-wow,100019/

[DerWaschbar]

Article here about the Disposition Matrix gives a practical example of how this whole NSA thing works.

 

 

When Bilal Berjawi spoke to his wife for the last time, he had no way of being certain that he was about to die. But he should have had his suspicions.

A short, dumpy Londoner who was not, in the words of some who knew him, one of the world's greatest thinkers, Berjawi had been fighting for months in Somalia with al-Shabaab, the Islamist militant group. His wife was 4,400 miles away, at home in west London. In June 2011, Berjawi had almost been killed in a US drone strike on an al-Shabaab camp on the coast. After that he became wary of telephones. But in January last year, when his wife went into labour and was admitted to St Mary's hospital in Paddington, he decided to risk a quick phone conversation.

 

A few hours after the call ended Berjawi was targeted in a fresh drone strike. Perhaps the telephone contact triggered alerts all the way from Camp Lemmonier, the US military's enormous home-from-home at Djibouti, to the National Security Agency's headquarters in Maryland. Perhaps a few screens also lit up at GCHQ in Cheltenham? This time the drone attack was successful, from the US perspective, and al-Shabaab issued a terse statement: "The martyr received what he wished for and what he went out for."

The following month, Berjawi's former next-door neighbour, who was also in Somalia, was similarly "martyred". Like Berjawi, Mohamed Sakr had just turned 27 when he was killed in an air strike.

Four months later, the FBI in Manhattan announced that a third man from London, a Vietnamese-born convert to Islam, had been charged with a series of terrorism offences, and that if convicted he would face a mandatory 40-year sentence. This man was promptly arrested by Scotland Yard and is now fighting extradition to the US. And a few weeks after that, another of Berjawi's mates from London was detained after travelling from Somalia to Djibouti, where he was interrogated for months by US intelligence officers before being hooded and put aboard an aircraft. When 23-year-old Mahdi Hashi next saw daylight, he was being led into a courtroom in Brooklyn.

 

I have no doubt that the program is sometimes effective, but I can't believe it's going to work in the long term and it has huge potential dangers.

Legitimate threats to the US will just become more Autonomous and harder to track as more and more resources are allocated to this system. The outcome in Afghanistan and Iraq are great examples of how difficult it is to control an amorphous threat that is completely devoted to rebellion, regardless of how much money and technology is dedicated to removing it.

I'm not PC enough to say that Radical Islam poses no threat to Western society and I doubt very much that anyone on here would want to live in a state governed by Sharia law, the same as I doubt anyone here would want to live in State governed by the Westboro Baptists. However I can't see that programs like these really provide us with any long term security and if anything they are more damaging as they erode domestic trust in the government while increasing foreign distaste for the west and the numbers of those wishing to destroy it.

[awepittance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4z09el30f8

[lumpenprol]

flol, those funny or die guys are pretty good aren't they

[goDel]

A question from the stupid world outside the us in the context of last wednesdays vote on the nsa program: are referendae part of us politics? I can't remember there being any and I'm wondering whether or not a referendum would be a good addition to current us democracy.

In essence it is a way to have the people have something to say about those nsa programs. The current vote seems more of the same old blabla. Some vote by a tiny group of people about secret stuff which should remain as secret as possible. It basically shows the leaks haven't changed anything, and the question is if there's anything that would.

 

A referendum might be an interesting option at this point, imo.

[awepittance]

in terms of things changing on the congressional level, i think change is occurring in other more interesting places that aren't considered the 'fringes'. The CEO of associated press did a speech in front of the national press club last month and sounded like he was awepittance posting on watmm when referring to the chilling effect of surveillance and how it's damaging investigative journalism everywhere. To me this actually shows a pretty significant shift in the relationship between mainstream journalism and the Whitehouse, one that I've never really seen happen since I've been paying attention to politics. This isn't just a bandwagon jump type of thing either like when all the networks and generic democrats like John Kerry started all of the sudden being anti Iraq war to placate the voters in the 2004 election. Associated press isn't going out there making a huge stink about this, because I think they are rightfully scared. Not even the Vince Foster or David Kelly government assassination conspiracy theories had the type of legs that the Michael Hastings car-hack theory story did. It's not just simple sensationalism, and if you want to deduce it to just typical sensationalism, they wouldn't be able to sensationalize if they didn't perceive an increased level of fear and distrust towards government as a result of a series of NSA revelations. Remember this wasn't just Greenwald and Snowden blowing the lid off the NSA, the Justice Department and the NSA had been wiretapping previously a fox news reporter and something like 20 different reporters for the associated press for completely different leaks. I think the Edward Snowden leak only acted as a tipping point.

a referendum is a good idea. If the U.N. itself (and not just a few ballsy members) had any balls whatsoever to stand up to the united states we would get one in the form of a U.N. vote. The PR damage that would do to the united states would be significant, would be interesting to see how Obama reacts if it happened.

[goDel]

I guess it's interesting to see whether the press can have some influence on the matter, but in all honesty, I think it's mostly bark and no bite.

The codependency between press and politics is way too big for the press to start biting politics. OK, it's not that the press hasn't tried to bite, but as far as I'm concerned, those "bites" were more like "nibbles". Almost to the point of having some sense of sexual fetish, because it allowed for a bit of hardcore grinding of the metaphorical hips. A thing both sides of the relationship seem to be rooting for, currently.

Point being, imo, the relationship is as close as it has always been. And I don't see a real change in the near future.

[awepittance]

it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I don't think there has ever been a time where press freedoms have been under threat to this degree, maybe a few instances during the civil war or WW1.

[goDel]

a referendum is a good idea. If the U.N. itself (and not just a few ballsy members) had any balls whatsoever to stand up to the united states we would get one in the form of a U.N. vote. The PR damage that would do to the united states would be significant, would be interesting to see how Obama reacts if it happened.

 

It's interesting to bring up the UN. I guess the best example of the relationship between US and UN is the discussion on torture. That leaves the feeling perhaps that a different position from the UN wouldn't have a big impact. At least, not out in the open. Can't say what the impact is behind closed doors.

 

I guess the most important thing is within this UN context: where does China stand in all this? And it's exactly at this point where Greenwald/Snowden deserve some credits. By simply taking the plane to Hong Kong, they had a way to force China into taking a public side in this discussion. Or, to try to force. I guess China didn't fall for it. Also, the suggestion that Snowden might be leaking to China made it problematic. Even if China did take a clear position out in the open, it would have signalled them being stakeholders in achieving access to Snowden's information one way or another. So China wasn't in a good position to take a position, if you catch my drift.

 

But the point is perhaps: why hasn't the UN take a clear side in this discussion (perhaps I've missed it?). UN members being spied on is not playing the game by the rules. I hope I'm missing something, but if the UN hasn't made a firm statement against programs such as those of the US, or those in the UK, something's off. Because actions like that essentially undermine what the UN stands for.

[awepittance]

<p>my only answer to that is as much as the world would like to breathe a sigh of relief that Bush is gone, the memory of how France was treated and then following that how the UN was treated by the Whitehouse and it's followers has left a pretty deep wound. And not like a battle scare type of wound, i'm talking a pretty traumatizing experience to essentially have the US president out there bragging/making jokes/spreading talking points about how the US ultimately doesn't have to answer to the puny little UN.  When we tried to go into Iraq I think we essentially hit the reset button on the dynamic between the united states and every other UN  member. <br />

<br />

In my search for obscure movie clips while making American Bisque i found an interesting Hans Blix interview where he lays out his theory on the Iraq war stage setting. It struck me as being probably the most believable theory of them all. He says that Saddam essentially called America's bluff, and that Bush and the Whitehouse were under the assumption he would reject weapons inspections in the first place. When Saddam allowed the UN weapons inspection teams in the US panicked and started to put false pressure on the UN and the general public claiming Saddam was performing some sort of elaborate ruse to hide his weapons stockpiles. In reality they never had even the slightest intention of shutting down Saddam's supposed WMD program. That's why after they went in (basically when it was too late to stop them) they didn't seem to give a fuck about finding them or not.  </p>

[goDel]

Hmmm, looking from the outside US bragging is nothing new. It's kinda what they've always done. At least since WW2. Although the "unilateral" hawkish approach Bush brought into play was kind of a bitch-slap in the face of the rest of the world. Until then, despite being a brat, the US at least appeared (to the outside world) to follow the rules of the international playing field called UN.

I guess the power struggle the US is in (with China especially and other rising economies perhaps as well), makes it almost impossible for the US not to kick against the UN.

 

Viewed this way, the US starting to openly ignore the UN is kind of a tell tale sign for the decline of US power. The US might argue about a "puny UN", but as soon as the other nations stop to make political deals with the US outside of the UN, the US will be the crying kid standing alone in the corner. No matter the size of its army. (if the UN functions properly, you - as a single nation - don't need a huge army to be powerful...) Think of a scenario where China decides to openly support the UN in terms of international politics, for instance.

[MisterE]

is it just me, or does this prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that all the stuff the liar we currently have as president has told us isn't happening, and has tried to use language suggesting that it isn't even possible due to all of the security checks and oversights in place: “I am comfortable that the program currently is not being abused,” Obama said. “I am comfortable that if the American people examined exactly what was taking place, how it was being used, what the safeguards were, that they would say, ‘You know what? These folks are following the law.'"

 

is it just me or does the latest admittance that thousands of domestic emails have been collected and the revalation that NSA agents are using the system to spy on their lovers/wives/etc show that everything some have suggested could happen, and that obama has tried to claim as being impossible, is actually not only possible but either already happening or possibly happening? that's including the use of the system to blackmail/hassle/railroad political opposition. if these guys can pluck info on their wives right out of this system, then how can our president telling us that it's simply not possible for this system to be abused in any way shape or form be anything other than an outright 100% lie? it proves that someone can access the system with a specific target, and obtain information on them. really it is too bad we don't have a republican president right now so that there'd be more outrage and something might get done about this, when the president continually lies about things not being possible and when those things are revealed says 'oh but its isolated'. or maybe the NSA's families don't count as americans being spied upon for some reason?

 

edit- and at this point, doesn't his insistence that there's nothing to see here, when clearly there is all kinds of shit to see here, shouldn't that be suspicious on him? i mean, why would someone defend a system that clearly would allow anyone with access to it to dig up dirt on anyone they wanted? WHY?