dingformung Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Spotify, YouTube, any radio station and broadcast uses EBU R128 nowadays. Do you master you tracks with that in mind and have any experience with it and recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 You shouldn't master your music to EBU R128 - that doesn't make any sense. EBU R128 is for broadcasting only. YouTube doesn't use EBU R128 for anything. Their targeted loudness is -13 LUFS as far as I remember. So anything above that gets turned down in volume. Spotify used to have a targeted loudness at -11, but they've dialed it down to -14 LUFS. Most tracks are mastered to around -12/-11/10 LUFS. EDIT: Here are a bunch of random tracks for reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingformung Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Thanks for the info. I guess I could have googled that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 The EBU R128 standard was made by the European Broadcast Union (EBU) as a way of standardizing the permitted maximum level of audio signals. Remember how you would always have to turn down the volume whenever the commercials came on? Well, that was before the EBU R128 became the standard. Ever since that became the standard commercials can't reach above -23 LUFS... and... I could be wrong but I think it's -24 LUFS/LKFS in the US. Also, I don't know if anyone uses LKFS anymore? Anyway... about iTunes and Spotify. If your music is "too loud" it'll simply be turned down. But then there's the whole "Mastered for iTunes"-business and fucking hell... let's not get into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b born droid Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Yeah we only use R128 for TV. Youtube/Spotify/Radio etc do not use it*. Radio, as far as I'm aware still uses 0dB peak; we deliver all radio adverts as -0.1dB peak mp3. Anything online we deliver as -13LUFS and only then are LUFS measured (well... as well as True Peak) and not short term LUFS. The Mastering Show podcast with Ian Shepherd was a great source of information regarding how to master with online streaming in mind. The general consensus was to ignore completely and if you go off anything it should be short term, not long term. Long Term LUFS can be incredibly misleading and does not lead to better mixing. You also have to bear in mind that different platform will adjust accordingly therefore unless you want to do a completely new master for each one (and not every platform even advertising their playback), it's a bit of a con trick. Unless you are mastering for a particular physical format like vinyl, a proper Full Scale CD master will be great for streaming playback. @Squee - Paranerd might know more, but it's my understanding that LUFS is the European Term, LKFS is the North American term. Both are however identical. *For starters with TV there are extra short term LUFS levels to adhere to that for music would make no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 @Squee - Paranerd might know more, but it's my understanding that LUFS is the European Term, LKFS is the North American term. Both are however identical. Yeah, I think the only difference back then was the gated/ungated measurement meaning. LKFS was gated and LUFS was not. But as far as I know LKFS is now "ungated" as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 @Squee - Paranerd might know more, but it's my understanding that LUFS is the European Term, LKFS is the North American term. Both are however identical. Yeah, I think the only difference back then was the gated/ungated measurement meaning. LKFS was gated and LUFS was not. But as far as I know LKFS is now "ungated" as well I don't know more on the difference. I've never had to look into delivering under a LUFS spec, only LKFS and it's usually -24. I've never hear of music streaming services following these specs. The metering from my masters and from a streaming site like YouTube or Soundcloud are identical last I checked. The only site I saw a difference was Bandcamp - they're website player is -3dB quieter than original masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 @Squee - Paranerd might know more, but it's my understanding that LUFS is the European Term, LKFS is the North American term. Both are however identical. Yeah, I think the only difference back then was the gated/ungated measurement meaning. LKFS was gated and LUFS was not. But as far as I know LKFS is now "ungated" as well I don't know more on the difference. I've never had to look into delivering under a LUFS spec, only LKFS and it's usually -24. I've never hear of music streaming services following these specs. The metering from my masters and from a streaming site like YouTube or Soundcloud are identical last I checked. The only site I saw a difference was Bandcamp - they're website player is -3dB quieter than original masters. You can read about Spotify's measurements here https://ask.audio/articles/spotify-drops-loudness-target-to-14-lufs-what-does-this-mean-for-producers And I just found this Apple Music *Soundcheck On* ~ 16 LUFS YouTube ~ 13 LUFS Spotify ~ 14 LUFS Tidal ~ 14 LUFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 @Squee - Paranerd might know more, but it's my understanding that LUFS is the European Term, LKFS is the North American term. Both are however identical. Yeah, I think the only difference back then was the gated/ungated measurement meaning. LKFS was gated and LUFS was not. But as far as I know LKFS is now "ungated" as well I don't know more on the difference. I've never had to look into delivering under a LUFS spec, only LKFS and it's usually -24. I've never hear of music streaming services following these specs. The metering from my masters and from a streaming site like YouTube or Soundcloud are identical last I checked. The only site I saw a difference was Bandcamp - they're website player is -3dB quieter than original masters. You can read about Spotify's measurements here https://ask.audio/articles/spotify-drops-loudness-target-to-14-lufs-what-does-this-mean-for-producers And I just found this Apple Music *Soundcheck On* ~ 16 LUFS YouTube ~ 13 LUFS Spotify ~ 14 LUFS Tidal ~ 14 LUFS Interesting, I'll need to look into this some more and compare meters again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Apparently, now, there's no difference between LKFS and LUFS, though there used to be a difference where LUFS incorporated a gate on quiet sections that was below a certain loudness threshold so that it wouldn't skew the metering. Then LKFS specs incorporated that gate but didn't adopt the term LUFS, so we have both terms floating around:http://gameaudionoise.blogspot.com/2012/02/whats-difference-between-lkfs-and-lufs.htmlI decided to quickly check the LKFS on some of the music masters I've delivered and they hover around 10LKFS, which technically is kind of on the hot side but not really compared to a lot tracks out there. I used to master more quietly, but clients didn't want that so I found a compromise on how loud I was comfortable with, how it looks on the Dorrough meters and how it looks on the RMS meters. I also listen to reference tracks of comparable type of music to give an indication of volume and frequency balance.Now I need to do a blind test comparing tracks on different streaming services to see if I can find a difference in loudness, this thread has me on a bit of a goose chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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