Guest Promo Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I'm guessing there is an art to this. So am curious what are some good settings in order take some of the nastiness out of drums (particularly snares) at a higher volumes in order to give them a more eveness/smoothness. Cheers in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylonbitch Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 soft or hardware? edit: i'm gonna go ahead and assume it's s/w.. in which case your ratio will probably want to be a little higher than a hardware compressor. start with a very sharp attack... 45-55 ms... don't go too close to 60 (or indeed the corresponding value to the core frequency of your kick drum, otherwise your drums will sound slightly out of time, due to the loss of attack transients.) set the threshhold around where your quietest kick or snare peaks. short decay, ratio of about 4:1. try that, then start fucking about with the settings, and listen carefully to what they do. that's a fairly reasonable 'basic' set up for software drum compression, though it's all very dependant on the specifics of the drums themselves. really in my opinion, the only good way to learn compression is to read a hundred tutorials, try stuff out and then experiment. it's a bit of a black art. edit again: you're probably better with a bit of subtractive eqing to take the nastiness out of snares. try a narrow cut at about 4500Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Promo Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Cheers for that. Yeah, its definitely appears not to be a case of one size fits all. I noticed the exact issues you mentioned in relation to the attack on kicks and I think you're right that it definitely depends on the sounds one is using. I read about folks putting compression on the whole mix but I was thinking about just doing it on some of the drums. Also I tend to eq my channels to get more the sound I want from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylonbitch Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 you don't really want to put a single compression on a whole mix. best to find either a good multiband compressor (good luck) or multi buss the output, and set the eq on each of your besses to a specific frequency range, crossfading the overlap, and put three or four separate compressors on the mix, one for each range. best just to leave that final mastering up to the mastering engineer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pantsonmyhead Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 try parallell compression use a send with a compressor squashing the crap our of it (liek 10:1 @-30db threshold) pull the attack and release back as far as possible and ust the makeup gain to bring it up to an audible level then blend with the original i use this on kicks and snares alot, all the transient peaks of the drumns are preserved in the original while the sustain is amplified via the compression channel now blend the 2 to your liking via volume controls this is often referred to as the "new-york" compression style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest heliumbaboon Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 There's a book I have called "Mixing with your Mind" & it has some good tips. The mnemonic is ARRT. 1st set your Release to the minimun, the Ratio cranked all the way up & the Threshold all the way sensitive. A - Expertly twiddle the Attack knob until you like the thickness of the drumstick. R - Move the Release around until it lets go with a nice rhythmic feel. R - Set the Ratio as low as you can & still get the effect you like. T - Move the Threshold up until it's above the quieter parts. The entire book is has amazing info like this & goes into lots of detail. It's mostly geared toward traditional production, but ithe info work for electronic music, too. Especially if you mic your own samples. It's the most helpful sound engineering book I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firefunker4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 you're not necessarily committing one of the seven deadly sins if you put a slight compression on the overall mix... but the key is that it is *very* slight. very low ratio & very high threshold with almost no additional gain. if used subtly, this can help bring a mix together nicely... it is true that it is better to compress individual channels and try to do most of mixing with volume, panning, reverb, and eq. however, it also depends on your sound sources... if they are from gear it is a totally different game than if it is live recorded instruments ... which are both different than sampling. edit: i actually went to school for sound recording/engineering. and it is definitely helpful to understand gear on the deepest levels and all the theory behind it all... but at the end of the day, it is still down to using your ears. just have impeccably high standards and don't settle. mixing can be incredibly frustrating, but can often mean the difference of a track being 'good' versus being 'great'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pantsonmyhead Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 edit: i actually went to school for sound recording/engineering. and it is definitely helpful to understand gear on the deepest levels and all the theory behind it all... but at the end of the day, it is still down to using your ears. just have impeccably high standards and don't settle. mixing can be incredibly frustrating, but can often mean the difference of a track being 'good' versus being 'great'. i love how kids like to add this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firefunker4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pantsonmyhead Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 yes kids i call almost everyone under 40 kiddo/kids lemme guess: full sail, M.I. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firefunker4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 i don't know why i would be offended... it doesn't matter what age someone is, when they are right they are right. and it is true- after all the training, theory, and background, one still needs to use their ears. i guess it is true that one's ears could be a hindrance if they are rubbish, but if one's ears are rubbish... they have no business producing/engineering/etc in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pantsonmyhead Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 but why even mention the training in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firefunker4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 why not? it is a point of reference... the same reason heliumbaboon quoted his book and the same reason you name-dropped "new york"-style compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pantsonmyhead Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 c'mon, you can't name drop a common technique... it just seemed to me like you were trying to further validate your point by saying that you have technical training. maybe I'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perunamuusi Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 c'mon, you can't name drop a common technique... it just seemed to me like you were trying to further validate your point by saying that you have technical training. maybe I'm wrong maybe you are....the mention of technical training seemed to me nothing more than a precursor to a "BUT" maybe i'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firefunker4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 sure you can name-drop a technique... it is a way of showing you are "in-the-know", no? i wasn't trying to brag... if anything, i was saying that understanding the theory and background isn't an end-all... one still has to use their ears. so i guess in a way you are right... i used my own frame of reference to explain why i believe what i do. but you are wrong in thinking that it is any different than how anyone else qualified their opinions/contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pantsonmyhead Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 sure you can name-drop a technique... it is a way of showing you are "in-the-know", no? no, name-drop (nām'drŏp') intr.v., -dropped, -drop·ping, -drops. To mention casually the names of illustrious or famous people in order to imply that one is on familiar terms with them, intended as a means of self-promotion. that would be name dropping what i did is often called a "reference" if i said my buddy phil spector does blah blah blah that would be a name drop and i guess i was wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest welcome to the machine Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I dunno, I think 'reference' dropping is a good basis to tell someones level of understanding. I mean if a kid came and said - 'yeah compressions great I love the ATTACK controll it makes my amens RULE' then you would think 'okayyy..' but mentioning a technique you use which is perhaps a stage or two after learning how to use a compressor, you at least know they have a rough idea of what they are talking about. as does mentioning that you have studied, anyone can write anything on the net so at least thats some evidence to say you have given the subject allot of though. that said of course, you can say whatever you want so even evidence such as that could be fabricted (no accusations of course, just a general net wonderment :) ) as for compression, the ARRT technique is your friend, over do it and then back it off when you come back the next day, and most importantly, mix with your ears not your eyes. so many plugins these days have fancy graphics, as do hardware comps with attenuation level meters etc. they are usefull tools but only if used secondary to your ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 compression is tricky. Not many people can really give an authoritative answer on this... but many people will state it like they really know. The truth is, peoples tastes vary quite a bit on this. My advice, is to try and tweak one parameter at a time, and see what it is doing. Then tweak 2 at a time, and see how they interact. Also, BYPASS the compression OFTEN, so you can hear the original sound vs what you are doing to it. Ears are very important on this. Its a relatively simple device really... it shouldnt take too long to understand what is happening when a compressor is active, esp if you sit there and listen to what each knob is doing to the sound (keep A/Bing it so you really notice). There has been some decent advice in this thread, but Id stay away from copying exact settings... it will not work. Maybe use those settings as a basic reference point, and then tweak from there and see what it gets you. In the end, its a matter of taste. Also, compression on the main mix: Ive not heard much about plain compression. In mastering, parallel compression is used a lot... but normal compression, not so much (to my knowledge?) because often you will be putting your mix through an L2 limiter type device... which does some compression-like process (but not exactly) so itd be kind of double compression. but all of this I would leave up to the mastering engineer... Id never do any processing to my main 2 mix... as Id leave that up to the mastering engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLA FUR BIS FLE Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 depends on the track, a nd how much internal compression is done (for me at least), but i have used compression on entire tracks before. but again, it all depends on how the rest of the track is mastered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 yeah... personally I find an L2 sounds nicer then a plain compressor but again, I prefer to let a mastering engineer handle all of that... I know theyd do it much better then myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stolemb Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Just asking: Whats the best software compressor ever for individual channels? I mean, for applying it to only some drums and bring those some life, not to the whole mix. (I readed several times how people separate "mastering compressors" for "channel compressors", not sure about this tho). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 the best? I dont know... it's hard to pick just one... waves makes some good ones, and wave arts (I use theirs) sounds pretty good (and is a pretty fair price) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stolemb Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 The best I have is the L2. About "leaving things" to the mastering engineer. Everyone in the bussines do that? For example, take Squarepusher's Go Plastic while there is that thread about it going. The question is, suposing he gave Go Plastic to the mastering engineer, would be really noticeable the difference between the raw Go Plastic just like Tom left it after being mastered by the engineer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 The best I have is the L2. About "leaving things" to the mastering engineer. Everyone in the bussines do that? For example, take Squarepusher's Go Plastic while there is that thread about it going. The question is, suposing he gave Go Plastic to the mastering engineer, would be really noticeable the difference between the raw Go Plastic just like Tom left it after being mastered by the engineer? hell yeah there would be a difference. The person who mastered Go Plastic does a lot of the other warp stuff, he is very skilled engineer. Go plastic is very well mastered, comparatively to Hello Everything which has slightly worse mastering imo. A lot of people dont work too hard on getting the song to be super loud, they leave amplitude headroom on purpose for the mastering engineer to boost it. The L2 isnt really a proper compressor since it doesnt have all the necessary controls, but it works great on individual channels like bass drums and snare drum tracks. It can flatten a mix and make it sound too 'soft' if you use it heavy handedly on the main mix. Of course the source material is always the most important part, if it sounds shitty there is only so much a mastering engineer can do to it to improve it. Not that it makes them any less awesome but some of the tracks on Drukqs and Rushup edge sound like they werent mixed with too much precision and the mastering engineer tried to compensate by using lots of compression. Oh and Mr. Oizo and Autechre are the masters of compression. I haven't heard anybody do it better and more pleasurable sound than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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