Quaristice & "the real thing"...

[Guest Ephphatha]

There's been some comment on the forum from those who downloaded the FLAC files from Bleep, & those who have "held out" & waited for the CD to be released. i thought it would be interesting to throw Sean Booth's words from the new issue of Clash magazine into all this, & see what people's thought about this are. Here's an excerpt from the article:

 

Speaking to Clash ahead of Quaristice's unveiling, Sean Booth discussed his preference of digital vs. physical; "It makes no odds to me. Actually, it does; I'd prefer (people) to download it than buy it physically. It fits our agenda much better that way. Our plan has never been to produce CDs - it's always been about making music. If there's a way of charging for it and getting the content to people, then we'll adopt whichever is the most transparent. The actual product is the FLAC file – but I don't object to those who want to own something that they can hold"

 

Free of the anti-piracy software that traditionally accompanies digital music, Booth is emphatic that such measures are draconian. "I don't understand people who are DRM (Digital Rights Management) freaks. Sabotaging people's equipment for financial reasons?! It doesn't make any sense. People who have bought it legally should be treated accordingly. This latest album was the first we've sent out with watermarks in for promo use. It was more of an experiment than anything, to see how long people took to regard it as a political act. Not long at all as it happens… Basically – as long as I can make a living at it, I'm happy"

 

Do you worry about how people will listen to the album when they've downloaded it? "What can you fucking do about that? I mean, I've listened to our music through shit laptop speakers before and it sounds alright. Ideally we'd have people experiencing it first through a high quality source and subsequent listens would draw on a lot of memory anyway. So the first counts, then people tend not to listen as closely. It depends a lot on what drugs you've taken as well I suppose… I have personal standards, but I would never try to force them on other people"

 

Comments?

[Guest Kenneth172]

A quality response by my reckoning.

[spptrl alt del]

my quaristice cd sounds better than the cdr w/320 kbps mp3s

[QBLA]

i dled it last night from bleep... but i'm still getting the cd... i like the smell of a new cd!

[Guest CATS]

its odd how people become so fixated on a physical product rather than the actual music.

[QBLA]

you prefer flac... i prefer physical product... no big deal!

[sweepstakes]

I bought the FLACs because that's most convenient for me but I will also be buying the LPs, cos LPs are sexy. And parts of this album actually seem good for mixing & scratching.

[Guest dangulberry]

you prefer flac... i prefer physical product... no big deal!

 

I prefer cycling, you prefer driving to the local shop in an SUV. No big deal!

 

But it is a big deal. We have to get over our longing for material possessions - a desire that has largely been the result of growing up as ideal consumers. We've been trained from a very young age.

 

The compact disc is no more romantic than a USB memory stick. You're experiencing the same audio whether you hear it from a CD player or a FLAC file on a decent 'mp3 player'. (But mp3s at 320 are, of course, pointless nowadays.)

 

Artwork is a different matter, but would you honestly be interested in tDR's stuff if is wasn't part of the Autechre package?

 

I did buy the special edition, but that was not for the nice packaging - my player plays WAV files, so I can rip Quaristice in the way I want.

[spptrl alt del]

its odd how people become so fixated on a physical product rather than the actual music.

its quite natural, actually

[Guest dangulberry]

its odd how people become so fixated on a physical product rather than the actual music.

its quite natural, actually

 

Why 'natural'? For centuries we carried around songs and music (and stories of course) in our heads without the intervention of recording media. Now that we've been through the 'mechanical recording era', with its clunky recording/playback media, and have landed in the 'digital era', it seems far more 'natural' to exploit the opportunity to do away with the extra material that accompanied our earlier attempts to distribute music.

[Guest mrx]

you prefer flac... i prefer physical product... no big deal!

 

I prefer cycling, you prefer driving to the local shop in an SUV. No big deal!

 

But it is a big deal. We have to get over our longing for material possessions - a desire that has largely been the result of growing up as ideal consumers. We've been trained from a very young age.

 

The compact disc is no more romantic than a USB memory stick. You're experiencing the same audio whether you hear it from a CD player or a FLAC file on a decent 'mp3 player'. (But mp3s at 320 are, of course, pointless nowadays.)

 

Artwork is a different matter, but would you honestly be interested in tDR's stuff if is wasn't part of the Autechre package?

 

I did buy the special edition, but that was not for the nice packaging - my player plays WAV files, so I can rip Quaristice in the way I want.

lol

[Guest Rook]

When you buy a physical copy, it supports the industry better. When you buy mp3's, it is more likely to support the pirating industry (though I am not saying everyone does this). Half of the people on here that mock those of us that like to buy hard copies are just rationalizing their theft anyway through file sharing anyway.

 

Plenty of people (like me) don't like having to figure out how to work encoders and decoders to just get cd quality music. Plus, hard copies have artwork, and are all ready to be cataloged both for backup and for the sake of posterity.

 

I agree that the most important thing is the music, but when you don't pay for your music, you are less likely to listen to it properly. (again, not saying everyone does this.) But how many no name people have given you free downloads or a free cdr of their music? For me, it is hundreds. Rarely do I really sit down and give my complete concentration to their free music. When I pay for something, I am more likely to put the effort into getting my money's worth. In this case, meaning concentrating very hard on the music.

 

It is childish to say that people are more fixated on the hard copy than the music. That's like saying, someone is more focused on having a copy of Halo 3, than actually playing Halo 3. Or someone is more focused on having a copy of their favorite movie, than actually watching their favorite movie.

[QBLA]

I prefer cycling, you prefer driving to the local shop in an SUV. No big deal!

 

i make efforts in walking or cycling whenever i have the chance!

 

But it is a big deal. We have to get over our longing for material possessions - a desire that has largely been the result of growing up as ideal consumers. We've been trained from a very young age.

 

i'm a graphic designer, so i enjoy the packagings of cds and vinyl just as much as the music... most of the music i discovered in the past was due to artwork.

 

The compact disc is no more romantic than a USB memory stick. You're experiencing the same audio whether you hear it from a CD player or a FLAC file on a decent 'mp3 player'. (But mp3s at 320 are, of course, pointless nowadays.)

 

true dat... true dat!

 

Artwork is a different matter, but would you honestly be interested in tDR's stuff if is wasn't part of the Autechre package?

 

i'm a huge fan of designers republic... a lot of my design techniques in the past were modeled after theirs until i found my niche in design... but i still go back every now and then!

 

I did buy the special edition, but that was not for the nice packaging - my player plays WAV files, so I can rip Quaristice in the way I want.

 

that's nice!

[spptrl alt del]

its odd how people become so fixated on a physical product rather than the actual music.

its quite natural, actually

 

Why 'natural'? For centuries we carried around songs and music (and stories of course) in our heads without the intervention of recording media. Now that we've been through the 'mechanical recording era', with its clunky recording/playback media, and have landed in the 'digital era', it seems far more 'natural' to exploit the opportunity to do away with the extra material that accompanied our earlier attempts to distribute music.

i find nothing 'wrong' with the physical artifact (record, tape, cd). how exactly do we 'do away' w/the extra material? can you listen to your music without your desktop computer nearby? is your ipod playback satisfying? i think its quite human to want a tangible object as a source of some magical experience for whenever (wherever) you desire to play it (on a common, even nice stereo)

[Fredd-E]

i'm a graphic designer, so i enjoy the packagings of cds and vinyl just as much as the music... most of the music i discovered in the past was due to artwork.

This is also my main reason for buying the actual disc. I really enjoy nice packaging. Other than ripping the original cd to wave and encoding it afterwards to flac (backup) and v0 (ipod) I do nothing wih them. They rest on my desk/shelf.

 

You support the artist and you get nice artwork to hold and some great music on your digital portable player... what's more to need?

[Guest dangulberry]

i find nothing 'wrong' with the physical artifact (record, tape, cd). how exactly do we 'do away' w/the extra material? can you listen to your music without your desktop computer nearby? is your ipod playback satisfying? i think its quite human to want a tangible object as a source of some magical experience for whenever (wherever) you desire to play it (on a common, even nice stereo)

 

Until music is distributed telepathically we are stuck with some necessary hardware. My main point is that we should 'do away' with the unnecessary. This is not merely to nurture a sharp focus on the music - that is, not only an aesthetic concern. It is important that we don't let our love of music somehow *justify* the overproduction of plastics (and other oil-based materials), and the overconsumption of fuels, that are involved in CD production. Many people who buy CDs also campaign against the over-packaged foods that supermarkets sell. It's a 'blind spot' that needs some foregrounding.

 

@Rook - I wasn't saying that anyone is fixated *more* on the packaging then the music. Just that it's an extra 'fixation', if you like (actually, I think it's a 'bad habit').

 

Also, the piracy issue is not really relevant here. No doubt you are right about *some* people who argue against hard copies trying to justify their increasingly bad habits. But many people do both - they buy some and they steal others. Many people who buy then go on to rip and share. There's no black and white here.

 

The idea that buying physical copies supports the industry better is shortsighted. It only supports them because the industry have determined the need to curb illegal downloading by creating ever more elaborate packaging that is created to appeal to the industry's idea of the ideal consumer. The industry learns from its consumers; if the consumer shows a willingness to pay for downloaded material, the industry would not only comply but actually benefit from a centralised distribution, and by cutting production costs to practically nothing.

[Guest CATS]

When you buy a physical copy, it supports the industry better. When you buy mp3's, it is more likely to support the pirating industry (though I am not saying everyone does this). Half of the people on here that mock those of us that like to buy hard copies are just rationalizing their theft anyway through file sharing anyway.

 

actually, if an album is sold in cd format and digital download at the same price, more money is being made from the digital download.

 

Plenty of people (like me) don't like having to figure out how to work encoders and decoders to just get cd quality music.

 

this is the main reason i prefer downloadable lossless music. there are quite a few things that can go wrong in the ripping process, but if the band releases FLACs from masters then you dont need to bother with these issues. as far as the artwork factor goes, bands that do release artwork, take the latest nin for example, are higher resolution than printed artwork.

[Guest Rook]

When you buy a physical copy, it supports the industry better. When you buy mp3's, it is more likely to support the pirating industry (though I am not saying everyone does this). Half of the people on here that mock those of us that like to buy hard copies are just rationalizing their theft anyway through file sharing anyway.

 

actually, if an album is sold in cd format and digital download at the same price, more money is being made from the digital download.

 

Plenty of people (like me) don't like having to figure out how to work encoders and decoders to just get cd quality music.

 

this is the main reason i prefer downloadable lossless music. there are quite a few things that can go wrong in the ripping process, but if the band releases FLACs from masters then you dont need to bother with these issues. as far as the artwork factor goes, bands that do release artwork, take the latest nin for example, are higher resolution than printed artwork.

 

Yes, that is true that more money is made from paid digital downloads (assuming that the band is signed to a record label that gives them money at all, I am not sure how warp works). But you missed my point I think. My point was that since the digital age of file sharing and downloading music online, the industry has been in crisis. This doesn't mean that the industry didn't have plenty of problems to begin with, but most people today can't fathom why anyone would SPEND money on music when it is available online for free. Plus, it seems that the masses, don't really even listen to music. They are so used to having instant gratification or having days and days of stolen music, that you see these people walking around with one earphone in, or they can't listen to an entire album or even an entire song.

 

As for FLAC, I meant that I don't like having the industry putting a litmus test on its consumers (meaning they must know how to work it) just to get CD quality audio. Whereas with an actual CD, even I can just buy it, pop it in the player, or rip it as WAV files without having to learn how to do anything.

[Guest dangulberry]

My point was that since the digital age of file sharing and downloading music online, the industry has been in crisis. This doesn't mean that the industry didn't have plenty of problems to begin with, but most people today can't fathom why anyone would SPEND money on music when it is available online for free.

 

It's been in crisis since CD-copying became affordable, and of course since filesharing. But paid-for downloading was an industry attempt to adjust to a new consumption paradigm. It's an attempt (a plausible one, I think) to deal with the crisis.

 

ALso, this whole crisis is a necessary one, imo. The 'value' of music becomes something different (1) when you don't (have to) pay; and (2) it's not tied to one particular physical object. Yes, people eat music up like fast food, but for every person you can show me with only one earphone in nowadays, 15 yrs ago I could show you a person who had music just 'on in the background', even while doing the hoovering. That said, I do feel there has been a shift in the value of music recently; that may be to do with the fact that some people cannot understand *how* to value music (and many other 'things') unless it costs them money.

 

Personally, I see some very good things happening as a result of the decline of the music industry. For me, they often 'got in the way' of the creation of genuinely interesting music. The fact that consumption of music has been dissociated from the industry means that we are the beginning of a new era, one in which (hopefully) music can be made and experienced on its own terms. That's one explanation for the feeling that no one cares much about music now: i.e. it's actually just that far less people care, while the avid listeners care as much as they always did. Sure, those listeners don't get many chances to have a chat about their favourite artists down the pub or local record shop anymore, but they can form little communities (like this one) to share their appreciation of some wonderful art.

 

So, right now, the uphill struggle the industry and artists are facing might seems unfair. But, if they take a longer view, I think artists and listeners will see this crisis as an opportunity to change our relationship to music for the better. Those who care and can afford it will want to support the artists financially, and that's where paid-for downloads come in.

[Guest Rook]

I don't deny any of this, I am only attempting to defend hard copy releases as opposed to digital only.

[ishishiba]

i can understand people buying physical releases due to their interest in the sleeve design. but not in the case of quaristice, as it's the weakest album cover i've seen in a long time imho.

[Guest vodor]

I did buy the special edition, but that was not for the nice packaging - my player plays WAV files, so I can rip Quaristice in the way I want.

 

You can decode FLAC to WAV. And reencode to anything you like.

 

I presume that you meant to say that you wanted the tracks from the bonus disc without having to steal other people's rips of them.

[Fredd-E]

i can understand people buying physical releases due to their interest in the sleeve design. but not in the case of quaristice, as it's the weakest album cover i've seen in a long time imho.

I don't know what you call weak but:

is looking awesome!!1

[Guest dangulberry]

I did buy the special edition, but that was not for the nice packaging - my player plays WAV files, so I can rip Quaristice in the way I want.

 

You can decode FLAC to WAV. And reencode to anything you like.

 

I presume that you meant to say that you wanted the tracks from the bonus disc without having to steal other people's rips of them.

 

No, I meant both discs, ripped to WAV. I *do* trust FLAC, and have been championing it as the ultimate audio compression codec for about 2 years. But, lossless or not, I trust WAV far more. Also, if I do fancy smaller versions on my playter (an i-river which plays WAV files) I'd like to rip the FLAC versions myself. There are 'variables' in WAV-FLAC conversion that I want some control over.

 

As for 'decoding' to WAV from FLAC, I see it as a 're-encode', since all of the original pcm data cannot be stored or kept latent in a FLAC file.

[Guest Rook]

yea the special edition art looks cool.

 

I also prefer to rip WAV from cds like dangulberry.