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Max for Live


Guest bigs

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From their website ( http://www.ableton.com/maxforlive ):

Max for Live will be available on November 23rd, 2009. It will cost USD 299/EUR 249. If you already own Max 5, the discounted price is USD 99/EUR 79.

 

sooooooooooooooo it looks as though it has finally come. they also mention that current users of live 8 can join in on the fun earlier via their beta testing!

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ok so let me get this straight. Max for Live (if you already own max 5) is $99 but does not include the price of Live 8, correct?

Im just trying to figure out how much it would cost me (Since i already own max 5) to jump into being a commercial Live user.

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ok so let me get this straight. Max for Live (if you already own max 5) is $99 but does not include the price of Live 8, correct?

Im just trying to figure out how much it would cost me (Since i already own max 5) to jump into being a commercial Live user.

 

There's an upgrade price from the version bundled with the Launchpad, might make sense if you were considering it.

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is that the hardware controller? if so no im just interested in getting Live 8 & max for live

 

Yes it's the novation thing. Ableton have got some reasonable discounts buying direct from them, which I think are valid until the end of the year. I use Live very occasionally, and the one thing that has put me off going legit is going from a cracked copy of Suite to a paid for copy of the basic Live. The add-ons aren't cracked in isolation. Suite is just too pricey for the amount I use it.

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whats the difference between normal and suite ? i didn't realize there were commercially sold addons for Ableton live. Sounds similar to the Fruity setup, not too hard to fine a crack for the prog but kind of a bitch to find cracks for all the pay instruments that come with it.

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whats the difference between normal and suite ?

 

Suite comes with all of the additional Ableton instruments like Operator, Sampler etc. 6 in total. And a load of sample sets, some worth having. To buy them individually is quite expensive, so it makes sense to go for Suite, but I only really use Sampler. It just seems a bit absurd to spend 300 Euros on Live, a further 100 on Sampler, and still not have the same extras as the crack. What I want is to be able to buy the vanilla version, use cracked instruments and feel both smug and assuage my conscience, while avoiding the nagging suspicion that AiR may not have nailed the timebomb protection after all.

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I own Suite. Although I do enjoy it, the only things I use on a regular basis are Operator, Sampler, and EIC2. I could probably live without those since I do also own FM8 and Kontakt. I find FM terrifyingly easy to understand in Operator however, where I never fully got it in any other FM synth.

 

I definitely do not think Suite is essential to do good with live. I had bare 7 for a year until I decided to go for the suite upgrade when 8 was launched. So there is always the possibility of upgrading when the next version of live comes out which typically happens every year.

 

That being said, I'm still torn on Max4Live cuz I would probably not tinker at all. I'd probably just use other peoples creations or modify them. Oh and Pluggo, I'd use pluggos face off. Come to me fragulator.

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Guest ryanmcallister

ok so let me get this straight. Max for Live (if you already own max 5) is $99 but does not include the price of Live 8, correct?

Im just trying to figure out how much it would cost me (Since i already own max 5) to jump into being a commercial Live user.

$199 to upgrade to Live 8 then another $99 to get max4live. both are worth the investment for sure.

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it seems a little overboard that first you need to own Max 5 full version ($495.00), then you need to own Abelton Live 8 full version ($329.00) and additionally you also need to buy Max4live ($99). You would have to spend $887 to get this far (assuming you do not own any of the earlier versions already)

 

this is the bare minimum required to use Max4live as far as i understand it, and even with this you still wouldn't have the full Abelton suite or the Jitter adon for Maxmsp.

 

I full Abelton suite & Jitter you're spending $659 (suite) + $699.00 (max5 +jitter) + $99 (max4live) this totals $1,457 if you wanted to be fully stakced.

 

please correct me if im wrong, i could very well be missing something out of this deal

 

also another strange thing is that if you don't already own Max 5, Max4live is $249, but does this give you full access to the program Maxmsp 5? it doesnt seem like it does

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If you own nothing: Buy Ableton and Max4Live = 400 + 300 = $700

If you own Max MSP: Buy Ableton and get discounted Max4Live = $400 + $99 = $500

If you own Ableton: Buy Max4Live = $300

If you own both Ableton 8 and MaxMsp = Get discounted Max4Live = $99

 

Take note you can also buy Ableton Intro for 99 bucks or whatever and use that with Max4live I believe making that total $400

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but with max4live only you're still not getting access to the full program of Max/msp 5 or no?

 

i guess i was under the impression that owning Maxmsp full version was a requirement to get max4live to run properly. it seems like its not the more i read. but from my perspective it would be almost useless to only have max4live and not access to the full program. unless your goal is just to load a bunch of other peoples max4live patches

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Well from what I can tell, max4live is the full version of max msp, it's just a modified runtime so that you may only edit and work on things from within live.

 

ie.. you can't make a sampler in max4live, and export it as pluggo or work on it when ableton isn't running.

 

With that in mind, you also could not take a max patch and open it in max4live (I believe), however I saw some people on the beta forums pasting wierd text that represented patches made outside of max4live into it.

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Guest ryanmcallister

it can get a little pricey, but i think it's justified. first of all, max4live is a very hefty upgrade...almost a new version of ableton completely. secondly, you can't blame ableton for requiring that you have live 8, as max4live required a major code rewrite to integrate it into the system as well as they have, therefore you have to have the current software, if you don't, ya gotta pay to upgrade. secondly, nobody forced you to buy max/msp previously, that was a choice you made, so you can't really factor in the price you paid for max/msp/jitter here. they can't just give you max4live for free or else they wouldn't make much money off of it (most of the people that are going to use max4live are max users already) but $99 is a nice discount. so really the only investment you would "have" to make (assuming you are new to max) would be the upgrade cost and then the 300 for max4live. it's not really that pricey if you consider the possibilities here and how much it will open up ableton live. this makes ableton one of the most powerful tools out there for electronic composition.

 

also, a lot of people are thinking of this as "how much i have to pay to get max4live" but they are forgetting that they are also upgrading to ableton live 8 and getting a hell of a lot of new features there as well (someone upgrading from live 5 to live 8 will be very satisfied i think).

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Guest ryanmcallister

also you can't really open max4live patches in max/msp and the other way around, but i mean if you want to edit an instrument built in max4live in the standalone version you could easily just copy/paste all the objects in the patch back and forth.

 

honestly i think people that try to make music solely in max/msp are...how do i say this...doing extra work? max is great for certain things, but i don't want to fuck around with declaring how long my recording's gonna be before i make it and all that shit, i've always preferred routing the audio/midi out of max/msp into a DAW to record. this being said, i don't really see much of a need for max/msp standalone now. max4live is fully capable, so why not just use it in combination with ableton all the time? if you don't need the ableton side of things, then just do everything in max4live and just rather than having an ezdac object going to your sound card you just are routing out of the max device through ableton's master then to the sound card.

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also you can't really open max4live patches in max/msp and the other way around, but i mean if you want to edit an instrument built in max4live in the standalone version you could easily just copy/paste all the objects in the patch back and forth.

 

 

if what you just said here is actuallyt he case, that the programs are not cross compatible with eachother. i think i won't be buying it. I have a crap load of Max 5 patches that i've been dying to integrate into a sequencer without using Pluggo. So i take it i cannot do this?

 

i don't really see much of a need for max/msp standalone now. max4live is fully capable, so why not just use it in combination with ableton all the time? if you don't need the ableton side of things, then just do everything in max4live and just rather than having an ezdac object going to your sound card you just are routing out of the max device through ableton's master then to the sound card.

 

 

You're right that Max4Live unless your a Jitter user, eliminates the need to be forced to make a song entirely in maxmsp (which is impossible unless you are Autechre)

but do we just have to wait for people to make Max4live patches to start using them? I think as a future investment Max4live seems like a good purchase. but i wanted to use this huge collection of patches i have, do i have to open up the windows side by side and rebuild them by hand??

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this makes ableton one of the most powerful tools out there for electronic composition.

 

 

this in theory is true, and it is also why i'm pretty excited about this.

 

edit: i think someone else already thought of this, but if Max4Live really catches on i sense a Reaktor/DAW combo would follow

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With that in mind, you also could not take a max patch and open it in max4live (I believe), however I saw some people on the beta forums pasting wierd text that represented patches made outside of max4live into it.

 

ok ok i've relaxed a little bit, i don't think this will be much of a pain in the ass. was it this forum you were reading - http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=127791&start=15

they are also talking about copying the maxmsp patch text and copying it into an empty Abelton Max4Live device . I see very little people talking about it though which makes me worry about this method's level of success

edit: so really in the end, unless you really love working in the standalone Max5 and cant be without it, the only reason to still own it if you are content with Max4Live solely is to copy individual pieces from Max5 patches . I believe that a Max5 patch can load into a text file without using the actual program and from there you can copy the entire thing and load it into an abelton device, however this might be tricky if you've never actually seen the patch before. i dont know im still torn on this.

 

i also just thought of another headache, what about usage of common maxmsp externals like ~bonk , will we have to wait for them to be rewritten for the max4live runtime? a lot of the best maxmsp patches require a 3rd party external object

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I can understand your reservations... but really, I'd say try to look at this in the long term... this is where it's headed... and there will be amazing stuff coming out of it. It might be a bit shaky to start with, there may not be much out there premade (although, max4live.org I think, already has user made patches to dl for free) and you might have to do extra work to get your old stuff ported over...

 

... but when that's all taken care of?

 

next level shit!

 

I'm pretty excited... I've only toyed with max on several occasions, and I'll only be using it with Live... so I have no grievances... I just want it to be in my possession so I can start! (well, I have started with the Beta version... started reading some quick tutorials, and I've already began making interfaces for Nord G2 patches I've made. Nothing fancy... but even just the ability to make a little live instrument that has all the CCs routed under the hood, and named, so it will show up in Live like a plugin... it's badass. My first project I assigned myself was to make a little drum synth in the G2, and make the interface for it in m4l. Now with my Launchpad... it's going to be sick! I'm already preplanning what I want to do with max and the LP... how to best assign the buttons in the user mode to completely control my custom drumsynth. I'm sure getting the LP to do exactly what I want, with LED feedback will take a little extra learning curve... but itll be worth it as well!)

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