kaini Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It finally looks like the per-layer storage capacity of Blu-ray Discs will really be increased, from 25 GB to 33.4 GB, thanks to the appearance of a new method of evaluating Blu-ray Disc media quality even at the higher capacity. The new method is likely to accelerate development of discs offering even more storage space. Read and write at 33.4 GB per layer would be implemented thanks to the use of partial response maximum likelihood (PRML) signal processing. The new method can continue to use the existing Blu-ray optics: a blue-violet laser diode with a 405 nm wavelength, and an object lens with a numeric aperture (NA) of 0.85. The problem until now has been there was no evaluation technology appropriate for 33.4 GB media using PRML. PRML assumes inter-symbol interference, which makes it difficult to base optical disc quality evaluation on jitter, as is widely done now for Blu-ray and many other optical discs. A source at Sony Corp. states, "At high-density recording, such as 33.4 GB, the relationship between the error rate and jitter collapses, and it becomes extremely difficult to evaluate jitter." Sony and Panasonic Corp. resolved this by developing the i-MLSE (Maximum Likelihood Sequence Estimation) evaluation index. Details of i-MLSE were announced at International Symposium on Optical Memory 2009 (ISOM '09), held in October 2009. The first of the two key characteristics is that i-MLSE has a strong correlation with the error rate (Fig. 1) even in read/write at 33.4 GB using PRML. The second, according to Sony, is that "i-MLSE exhibits the same relationship to signal quality as conventional jitter." In other words, it will be relatively simple to estimate the read error rate from the i-MLSE, just as can be done now with jitter. http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HONSHI/20091222/178809/ http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3977 http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/01/06/2047225/Blu-ray-Capacity-Increase-Via-Firmware this breaks my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IRARI Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 The problem until now has been there was no ejaculation technology appropriate for 33.4 GB media using PRML. this is how i read this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fishtank Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 they bigger'd it huk huk huk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 do you think they've been able to do this since the technology was invented, and held back for market reasons? i think it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modey Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm surprised that it's 2010 and we're still using easily destroyed discs as movie/audio media.. wouldn't it make more sense to develop a cheap, reliable ~64gb solid state 'disk' than keep trying to flog the dying horse that is cd/dvd style media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 not at the current prices. and every year, manufacturers are now having to fight moore's law more and more as transistors start to approach sizes where quantum effects start to become a factor in their designs. as soon as proper holographic storage is perfected, i could see optical disks experiencing a resurgence as a backup medium. also my layman's understanding makes me think that if we use light, the maximum 'resolution' is probably the planck length, rather than molecular. now we will never attain that, so basically with holographic storage the max capacity will be 'as good as you can make it'. this might end up being important eventually. the thought of backing up your entire collection of mp3s to a single disk is enticing, and when i think about it would probably be the final fucking nail in copyright's coffin too lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 honestly i'm done with dvds and blu ray and cds and vinyl and mp3s. with netbooks and streaming hd media i really feel like there is no need for anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Pioneer said they were bringing a 400gb disc out sometime this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEK Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm surprised that it's 2010 and we're still using easily destroyed discs as movie/audio media.. wouldn't it make more sense to develop a cheap, reliable ~64gb solid state 'disk' than keep trying to flog the dying horse that is cd/dvd style media? i remember reading in the 90's a popular science about how they might be able to make hard drive type devices with like a liquid and charging molecules. something really simple cause its' all just on'es and zero's right? i don't know how this would work , i'm over my head, but i agree with modey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 there are 128gb pen drives i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm surprised that it's 2010 and we're still using easily destroyed discs as movie/audio media.. wouldn't it make more sense to develop a cheap, reliable ~64gb solid state 'disk' than keep trying to flog the dying horse that is cd/dvd style media? i remember reading in the 90's a popular science about how they might be able to make hard drive type devices with like a liquid and charging molecules. something really simple cause its' all just on'es and zero's right? i don't know how this would work , i'm over my head, but i agree with modey that's reality, it's called ferromagnetic fluid - it's used as a seal/lubrication in high-end hard drives, and if you look it up on youtube, prepare to be assaulted by a feast of ocular IDM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEK Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm surprised that it's 2010 and we're still using easily destroyed discs as movie/audio media.. wouldn't it make more sense to develop a cheap, reliable ~64gb solid state 'disk' than keep trying to flog the dying horse that is cd/dvd style media? i remember reading in the 90's a popular science about how they might be able to make hard drive type devices with like a liquid and charging molecules. something really simple cause its' all just on'es and zero's right? i don't know how this would work , i'm over my head, but i agree with modey that's reality, it's called ferromagnetic fluid - it's used as lubrication or something in high-end hard drives, and if you look it up on youtube, prepare to be assaulted by a feast of ocular IDM. orly? nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 whats the difference between the flash memory you get on pen drives and SSD's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 screw you guys i looked it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 the stuff on good quality pen drives is actually sort of a 'low resolution' version of the same tech, but has a 'speed limit' imposed by the USB spec. on $9.99 pen drives, it's probably static dram or something. if you crack open the cases, they actually look dramatically different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 one day we'll be able to store data like this on any surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calx Sherbet Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Pioneer said they were bringing a 400gb disc out sometime this year holy hell estimated price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 do you think they've been able to do this since the technology was invented, and held back for market reasons? i think it's possible. It's entirely possible they could have achieved this from the get-go with the Blu-Ray spec, but it probably made more financial (and business) sense to get the most stable tech out the door and then improve on it - the media will be changing, so how the laser reads the disc has to change, and that's where firmware comes into play. Pioneer said they were bringing a 400gb disc out sometime this year holy hell estimated price? They've talked about that for awhile now - while it's probably theoretically possible (or even possible in a lab/test environment), to get the manufacturing and hardware required to use media at that density is probably not at the consumer or even commercial stage yet. 10 years from now, Peta and Exabyte HDDs will be commonplace as Terabyte drives can be had for as little as 70USD nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calx Sherbet Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 quintipixel cameras no, times that by 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plstik Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 honestly i'm done with dvds and blu ray and cds and vinyl and mp3s. with netbooks and streaming hd media i really feel like there is no need for anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 10 years from now, Peta and Exabyte HDDs will be commonplace as Terabyte drives can be had for as little as 70USD nowadays. by that stage one would think they'd stop advertising disk space, and consumers would assume there is surely enough for whatever their needs may be. No, consumers always like to know and feel what they're paying for. Numbers sell. honestly i'm done with dvds and blu ray and cds and vinyl and mp3s. with netbooks and streaming hd media i really feel like there is no need for anything else While I agree we'll see less and less physical media being the primary distribution method, I still think there will be a place for it for many years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 do you think they've been able to do this since the technology was invented, and held back for market reasons? i think it's possible. It's entirely possible they could have achieved this from the get-go with the Blu-Ray spec, but it probably made more financial (and business) sense to get the most stable tech out the door and then improve on it - the media will be changing, so how the laser reads the disc has to change, and that's where firmware comes into play. Pioneer said they were bringing a 400gb disc out sometime this year holy hell estimated price? They've talked about that for awhile now - while it's probably theoretically possible (or even possible in a lab/test environment), to get the manufacturing and hardware required to use media at that density is probably not at the consumer or even commercial stage yet. 10 years from now, Peta and Exabyte HDDs will be commonplace as Terabyte drives can be had for as little as 70USD nowadays. I was looking at some graphs a couple of months ago and worked out that the first 1 Petabyte drive will probably fall between 2018-2020. So exabytes are going to be a fair while after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Pioneer said they were bringing a 400gb disc out sometime this year holy hell estimated price? Haven't heard any mention of price. It's just slated for sometime this year apparently. It mentions a 1tb one here too. http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/pioneer_shows_400gb_bluray_disc_promises_1tb_disc_2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 do you think they've been able to do this since the technology was invented, and held back for market reasons? i think it's possible. It's entirely possible they could have achieved this from the get-go with the Blu-Ray spec, but it probably made more financial (and business) sense to get the most stable tech out the door and then improve on it - the media will be changing, so how the laser reads the disc has to change, and that's where firmware comes into play. Pioneer said they were bringing a 400gb disc out sometime this year holy hell estimated price? They've talked about that for awhile now - while it's probably theoretically possible (or even possible in a lab/test environment), to get the manufacturing and hardware required to use media at that density is probably not at the consumer or even commercial stage yet. 10 years from now, Peta and Exabyte HDDs will be commonplace as Terabyte drives can be had for as little as 70USD nowadays. I was looking at some graphs a couple of months ago and worked out that the first 1 Petabyte drive will probably fall between 2018-2020. So exabytes are going to be a fair while after that. See bolded. Yeah, Exabytes probably not so soon, but then again, you never know. One great leap might advance that beyond Exabytes to literally infinite storage. The big issue is will the storage keep up with the rate that we create the data...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 10 years from now, Peta and Exabyte HDDs will be commonplace as Terabyte drives can be had for as little as 70USD nowadays. I was looking at some graphs a couple of months ago and worked out that the first 1 Petabyte drive will probably fall between 2018-2020. So exabytes are going to be a fair while after that. it's an exponential curve of sorts and therefore pretty hard to predict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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