Being direct

[patternoverlap]

 

ur a fag

lol

 

 

Very direct.

[Npoess]

rudect

[hoggy]

It is a creative project. There is a fair amount of business, as well. My main issue is that there doesn't seem to be a foreseeable end in sight, there is no real budget and no one is good at scheduling. It's basically avoided. I just don't like seeing people's time wasted.

 

I honestly don't tell people what to do, for the record. I just make informed suggestions that usually end up getting ignored.

 

Most of my direct feedback sounds like "if this person isn't getting paid and they feel overworked, they will likely quit" or "if we end up making money on this, let's talk specifically about how that will break down between us fairly, since we are all in the same room together now" or "I feel like I need to get this specific credit for the work I've been putting into this, does anyone have a problem with that?"

 

As for my judgements, they are fairly accurate. You just need to believe me. The girl I mentioned is very nice, but deep down is very shrewd and never says exactly what's on her mind if there is a chance it could create any conflict. She means well.

The British guy I mentioned once told me "you can't plan genius" when I once suggested we strategize a plan for a specific task that involved several other people in a somewhat complicated and slightly hazardous situation.

It sounds like you have a clash of personalities with the British guy and there is a general lack of organisation on the project - creative people can be very lazy and disorganised and hard to work with - it sounds like nobody really wants to take control as such - might this be because of some notion of spontaneity?

 

I'm tempted to say go for it, be direct (but make your case, don't just state your opinions, don't lose your temper), because it sounds like the project may fail anyway because of the working relationships within the group. On the other hand, you really should question why they are behaving the way they are - maybe there is a reason - try to see things from their point of view before you do anything. You also need to consider whether this is something you care about enough to put in more work than may be your fair share of work (organising the group and so on).

 

As far as money, have a meeting to discuss writing a contract. If you don't completely trust everyone on the project then I think it would be a smart move. Actually - buying pizza might be the best idea yet, get everyone together over pizza and discuss the issues you have - the gesture might help.

 

HOWEVER

 

The nature of the project is crucial - different approaches would work with different projects.

[hoggy]

Maybe the best angle would be to say that 'I know how much you care about this project, and I do too, which is why I have to raise these issues because I know we all want to see this thing come to fruition' - being assertive but sympathetic - it's a tricky one though

[goDel]

Jefferoo, a couple points of hardly founded criticism based on what I sense from your posts.

 

You say you're direct, but you're sharing your feelings here. Have you shared them within the group (or someone specific)? If you haven't, you may be direct, but you're certainly not open. Which is kinda like being passive aggressive. Not being open until some boiling point has reached.

 

There's also a lot of distrust in your post. People not sharing stuff which you think there is.

 

I don't think a lack of directness is the issue here. It's a lack of openness. So if you want to improve the situation, you might start with being more open about it. Open about you feelings, that is. Not the cold content focussed stuff.

[Joyrex]

I am currently involved in a project with some friends and it seems I am the only person that doesn't have a problem being direct with my thoughts, feelings, advice, feedback and intentions. I feel being direct shows respect and is ultimately the best thing for everyone involved... granted, without being insulting to anyone or getting over emotional about things.

That is important.

 

I feel like at least one of my collaborators avoids being direct, in fear of coming across as mean. In effect, she ends up wasting people's time and complicating nearly every situation.

Another person in the group (he's British), fancies himself a genius. He seems like he doesn't respect anyone enough to be direct. Honestly, he's a bit shady.

Another person in the group is just new to the process and is a bit confused. I give her a bit of a pass. She try's to be direct when she can, but often, it comes off as confrontational or defensive.

The other partner is just quiet all the time, but he's sleeping with another partner, so I know there is a lot that goes on between them that is never really illuminated. That's a given.

I think there is a lot of people talking behind each other's backs on this project. Actually, I'm certain of it. It's really bad. People team up and talk about other people behind their backs or hide information from each other. It sucks. It really fucking sucks actually, mostly because we are all working in this thing for free and the bare minimum we owe each other is honesty/ openness.

 

I just feel that, at the end of the day, people are afraid to say what's on their mind. This is a shitty thing.

I've been guilty of it in the past. I know it can be complicated or emotional. Ultimately, I think it makes everything better.

I just wanted to throw it out there. If you are wishy-washy or cryptic or secretive out of fearful reasons or because of sensitivity or whatever, just clear the air and say what's on your mind. You don't need to get emotional about it. Just speak your mind. Especially if you feel like someone else deserves to hear something.

 

Sorry. I had to get that off my back.

My wife can only hear so much of my complaining.

Just imagine what they say about you behind your back. Stop worrying about others and get on with it.

[J3FF3R00]

Jefferoo, a couple points of hardly founded criticism based on what I sense from your posts.

 

You say you're direct, but you're sharing your feelings here. Have you shared them within the group (or someone specific)? If you haven't, you may be direct, but you're certainly not open. Which is kinda like being passive aggressive. Not being open until some boiling point has reached.

 

There's also a lot of distrust in your post. People not sharing stuff which you think there is.

 

I don't think a lack of directness is the issue here. It's a lack of openness. So if you want to improve the situation, you might start with being more open about it. Open about you feelings, that is. Not the cold content focussed stuff.

Interesting. Feelings... Quite a concept *scratches chin*.

 

I avoided the thought of bringing my "feelings" into it because I didn't want to feel like I was being emotionally manipulative. Also, the last time I was in a group project similar to this and feelings came up, shit got so messy that close friendships got fucked up. I would like to say something about it, but I think it would be best served to say it to one person in confidence. As opposed to the whole group.

Also, regarding openness, I mentioned that people do shit behind each other's backs. I feel like calling some people out on it because of how I feel about that, but I don't know of that would actually be more helpful to the project, at this point, or destructive.

I did bring up something regarding my emotions last night in our meeting, so it's not like I'm leaving everyone in the dark as to how I really feel. They know. They just don't care really. I wish I could go into more detail but it's just not worth it.

 

I honestly didn't expect this thread to become a "give J3FF3R00 advice about his situation" thread, but I probable should have assumed it would become that. I just wanted to see other propels thoughts on the advantages or disadvantages of being direct in similar situations.

 

One more thing, Timothy Forward said that thing about the director joking about calling himself a genius. He totally wasn't joking. If you knew this guy, you would know what I mean.

He's also always on "steroids" whatever that means. Basically he's drugged up and manic 60% of the time. He also has serious delusions of grandeur. You just have to take my word for it.

I'm actually starting to fear that he's a closet AFX fanboy and has been reading all of this.

(If you have, text me "gotcha" and we'll have a heart-to-heart about it.)

After all, he is British.

I'll probably close this after a few more posts.

I think my dirty laundry has gotten just about enough air.

[goDel]

My thoughts: there is no "being direct". Often, I see being inconsiderate mistaken for being direct. And being inconsiderate is something different to being rude, imo.

[Friendly Foil]

J3FF3R00, I hope this thread has taught you a lot about yourself.

[Guest A/D]

Is it a no-budget feature film? If yes, run very far away and then nuke it from orbit.

[J3FF3R00]

Is it a no-budget feature film? If yes, run very far away and then nuke it from orbit.

Bingo.

 

 

*turns to run, smacks into tree & breaks nose*

[J3FF3R00]

My thoughts: there is no "being direct". Often, I see being inconsiderate mistaken for being direct. And being inconsiderate is something different to being rude, imo.

That's nice. I can't really interpret what you just said as helpful. My whole issue with the team is their lack of consideration for each other by hiding things from each other and beating around the bush on important matters that effect us all. I'm the only person suggesting we discuss professional matters in detail with each other. How is that rude, exactly?

[Guest cult fiction]

My thoughts: there is no "being direct". Often, I see being inconsiderate mistaken for being direct. And being inconsiderate is something different to being rude, imo.

I agree with this.

 

Replace "I like to be direct" with "I like to keep it real" and think about how much of a douche you sound like.

 

Folks who "tell it like it is" tend to not be terribly self reflective in my experience. Giving honest feedback well is an important skill, if you can't do it without pissing people off you're doing it wrong. Or, you've encountered one of an extremely small number of people who can't handle any sort of criticism - the chances them also thinking they like to "keep it real" is quite high.

 

Being purposely harsh here to demonstrate the point.

[Friendly Foil]

cult fiction is just being direct.

[Guest cult fiction]

Keep it real mother fucks

 

edit: I just wasted my 1000th post on this *hangs head in shame*

[Friendly Foil]

No swearing please.

[Guest A/D]

 

Is it a no-budget feature film? If yes, run very far away and then nuke it from orbit.

Bingo.

 

 

*turns to run, smacks into tree & breaks nose*

 

Ha! Sorry dude. I have done sound on a few small-budget features and they have all been clusterfucks, every last one of them, in the same ways and in new and different ways. The kinds of people you're describing just generally don't last long in the industry (unless they are the ones with the money) because they suck to work with. You've done mostly post at this point, am I correct?

 

What do you have invested in the project? My gut instinct is to tell you to pull out and just wait until something less stupid comes along. You will learn a lot from this experience but I am afraid too much of it will just be what not to do.

[goDel]

 

My thoughts: there is no "being direct". Often, I see being inconsiderate mistaken for being direct. And being inconsiderate is something different to being rude, imo.

I agree with this.

 

Replace "I like to be direct" with "I like to keep it real" and think about how much of a douche you sound like.

 

Folks who "tell it like it is" tend to not be terribly self reflective in my experience. Giving honest feedback well is an important skill, if you can't do it without pissing people off you're doing it wrong. Or, you've encountered one of an extremely small number of people who can't handle any sort of criticism - the chances them also thinking they like to "keep it real" is quite high.

 

Being purposely harsh here to demonstrate the point.

 

good point. was doing the same in a way, innit.

[goDel]

 

My thoughts: there is no "being direct". Often, I see being inconsiderate mistaken for being direct. And being inconsiderate is something different to being rude, imo.

That's nice. I can't really interpret what you just said as helpful. My whole issue with the team is their lack of consideration for each other by hiding things from each other and beating around the bush on important matters that effect us all. I'm the only person suggesting we discuss professional matters in detail with each other. How is that rude, exactly?

 

Sorry for getting things to the point of total awkwardness. Point was that in your earlier response you said something along the lines of "didn't expect this thread to turn into a give Jeff advice". So my response was to not give any advice... And now that I don't give advice, you're not sure I'm being helpful. It does get a bit confusing if you're being so cryptic. :p

 

 

Just messing around ;)

 

edit: and again being a dick (see thread title for hint) :D

[goDel]

 

My thoughts: there is no "being direct". Often, I see being inconsiderate mistaken for being direct. And being inconsiderate is something different to being rude, imo.

That's nice. I can't really interpret what you just said as helpful. My whole issue with the team is their lack of consideration for each other by hiding things from each other and beating around the bush on important matters that effect us all. I'm the only person suggesting we discuss professional matters in detail with each other. How is that rude, exactly?

 

Perhaps that's not the point? The point might be what those professional matters are, if so much stuff is happening outside of "being professional" (relationships and all that).

 

Maybe, keeping things professional is not helping the situation? Could be, right? Professionalism could block being open about all the crap that's happening underneath it all.

 

I don't know. I'm halfway around the globe os I obviously can't give any meaningful advice which you weren't asking for anyways.

 

...o geez another post full of indirect hints...

[goDel]

Last post: The only thing I can help you with is kicking you in the nutsack for saying you're the only one in the group who's putting in effort. Have you ever met someone who said he was the only one in the group doing the right thing? What did you think of him/her? Even if you're right, you still deserve a kick in the nutsack. You're probably right, btw. At least, I don't think you're the kind of guy with a brick wall in front of him. Seriously, btw. Just don't ever say...

[Guest boo]

you're everything that's wrong in this world godel

[YO303]

So did you confront your co-workers on this?

[J3FF3R00]

 

 

 

Is it a no-budget feature film? If yes, run very far away and then nuke it from orbit.

Bingo.

 

 

*turns to run, smacks into tree & breaks nose*

Ha! Sorry dude. I have done sound on a few small-budget features and they have all been clusterfucks, every last one of them, in the same ways and in new and different ways. The kinds of people you're describing just generally don't last long in the industry (unless they are the ones with the money) because they suck to work with. You've done mostly post at this point, am I correct?

 

What do you have invested in the project? My gut instinct is to tell you to pull out and just wait until something less stupid comes along. You will learn a lot from this experience but I am afraid too much of it will just be what not to do.

The "genius" comes from money. He's in it for the long haul, sadly. I am the DP/co-producer. We are all working on it for free but I'm the only one who is also doing something technical, in addition to producing. I've done some editing. I've tried to keep my editing involvement to a minimum because that is the part of the process that could literally go on forever.

As far as what I've invested... I've invested my camerawork, several months my time, gear, connections, and I've passed up on a bunch of paid work that could have lead to good things.

[J3FF3R00]

 

 

I just feel that, at the end of the day, people are afraid to say what's on their mind. This is a shitty thing.

I've been guilty of it in the past. I know it can be complicated or emotional. Ultimately, I think it makes everything better.

I just wanted to throw it out there. If you are wishy-washy or cryptic or secretive out of fearful reasons or because of sensitivity or whatever, just clear the air and say what's on your mind. You don't need to get emotional about it. Just speak your mind.

you can't do this at my workplace without some motherfucker remembering it forever. this becomes a problem when you are relatively junior in the organisation and need approval from said motherfuckers to move up the ladder.

To you and Deer,

 

I think my situation is different. There is no "workplace". We all are creating this together. No one is really my boss because all of the work I have done is basically by donation. I originally got involved with the film because I believed in my friend's talent and her script.

That was when it was a short.

Now, everyone thinks it's a feature just because we never stooped shooting and there is a ton of footage, all of which would have never been possible without the donation of my time, skill and equipment.

I have every right to be as direct as I want. I still choose to keep it respectful and professional.

It's not like we are in a cubical with a hierarchy.

We are literally running up and down hills in the heat with cameras.

It's a hard, painful, stressful job with no pay.

 

Different situation.

 

 

/thread

 

Sorry. I'm just having a hard time feeling like I need to keep justifying why I'm thinking what I'm thinking. A lot of it is a kind of "you had to be there" kind of thing.

 

At least A/D gets it.

 

Luv u bro.