Patch Bays

[YEK]

how do patch bays work? i see pics of peoples studios, large or small and i see patch bays and haven't gotten the slightest clue.

[foresense]

it's just a place where you can mix and match your inputs and outputs. the patchbay has default routes on the back side and you can switch a device to something else on the front. useful too if you want to put something in between the signal, like an FX stompbox.

[YEK]

ok thanks. i read somewhere that they are mostly used in professional studios

[foresense]

nah, patchbays are super cheap, just need to get some multi-cables and you're off. it just saves time patching and routing. I have 16 channels with EQ and bus send, and 24 secundary/monitor channels without. so with the patchbay I can change the default routings without changing up everything. real useful, even though I don't use it that much..... but the nice thing is that you have a sane default so when you go back to songs you don't have to change everything back again. maybe just patch a few things in the front bay.

[b born droid]

This has turned out to be lengthier than I planned but...

 

Basic Overview:  I'm thinking about ruining my overdraft and finally picking up some gear to create what I think is the setup I want.  As it's mostly hardware, I really don't want to be fucking around with wires, and want to concentrate as much as humanly possible on simply re-routing via a patchbay wherever possible.  To this end, is there any reason why the following setup (see attached) wouldn't work?  Other than the fact it probably makes no fucking sense to anyone other than me 

 

 

Couple of points:

 

Currently I don't really use the master stereo output of the Vermona, I tend to multitrack inside Ableton by taking the separate output of each channel directly into my soundcard.  These separate outputs also function as a insert point, with the returned processed audio coming out the master stereo channel.  Although this is helpful, my way of thinking, is that I can simply insert an FX box into the individual output signal before it goes into my soundcard for recording.

 

[VERMONA Kick] --> kick p/b back in <thru> kick p/b front out --> FX1 p/b front in <thru> FX1 p/b rear out --> [FX1 UNIT] --> FX1 p/b rear in <thru> FX p/b front out -->  Soundcard Chan1 p/b front in <thru> SC Chan1 p/b rear out --> [sOUNDCARD]

 

I don't know much about patchbays, but as far as I can work out, that should work right?  I'm not entirely sure whether it makes much of a difference being a normalled or half-normalled connection, since I want to create open connections, where the top and bottom ignore each other.  Providing the front and back panel has a cable in the top and bottom, this should create an open connection, regardless of the normalled/half-normalled selection correct?  Thinking to the extreme, I'd probably want a normalled connection if I had a drum pattern with more voices than I could individually record correct?  That way, everything automatically gets routed back to the Vermona and out through the master stereo, but I could insert a cable into the kick p/b front out and siphon that off to my soundcard, and it would break the automatic routing back into the Vermona, correct?

 

Regarding parallels, I understand they are for taking one output and multiplying it so it can go to several other inputs, but can they do they opposite?  I.e. Take multiple inputs and sum them down to one output.  I would love to be able to, for example take 2-4 channels of my Vermona, or perhaps something from the Minilogue and a few channels from my Vermona, send them off to an FX unit for general fuckery (one FX will a grain delay so really want to experiment with multiple sources all together).  Is that possible?  The work around would be to use Ableton as 'mixer', and group all the incoming sounds I want, send them to a single soundcard output (it has 6), which routes to the FX and then back into the soundcard, but that just sounds like a latency nightmare.

 

Could anybody recommend a patchbay that might be able to accomplish this?  What should I be looking out for when it comes to patchbays?  None of this extra patching should create too much noise correct? Something like this should work perfectly I think, except it doesn't have parallel capabilities.

[Guest Chesney]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to simply connect all your gears ins and outs to the rear of the patchbay and simply when you need to route whatever gear through, into others your just use a patch acable to link them up by the patchbay front panel. Everything is 100% flexible.

 

I just read your post again, damn, you make it complicated for yourself. I would personally do what I suggested above and get a mixer and connect all inputs and inserts etc to rear of patchbay for all your summing and effect routing needs, would be far more flexible and easier to keep track of.

[b born droid]

Because I don't really understand patchbays... i thought that was obvious 

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I was trying to describe though.  At least that's what I thought I'd be doing.

 

What about the parallel question though?

[Guest Chesney]

I added to the post above^^^

You can do quite a bit with patchbays but personally I keep everything normalled so I can keep track of what i'm doing and quickly set up ideas within seconds without too much thought, so I have not delved too much into other patchbay options. I have 5 behringer ultrapatch bays and they are the heart of my setup. I could not work without them.

[b born droid]

I have sort of made it complicated, true, but I'm trying to think through all possibilities, so I don't end up not being able to do something that I very purposely want to do.  I know I can't do everything but I want to be able to work in a way that I find creatively easy.  So far it does seem straight forward (to me), with the exception of whether it's possible to send multiple outputs into one single device on a patchbay.  As for getting a mixer involved in all this, I can kinda see how it'd make my life easier, and it would solve that problem, but I'd need a minimum of 10 inputs (which means I can't expand), a couple of FX inserts, and also separate sub groups so could multitrack what I want into Ableton.  There's no way I could find something half decent which fits into my 'budget'.

[Guest Chesney]

From what I can gather from my patchbays, you can only double up sockets, just like you would a Y cable. Theoretically a patchbay does nothing to sound so you could link patchbays internally to do what you wanted but because you might be spreading thinly you might need some resistors in between each one, that is only guessing with my very limited tech knowledge and lots of assumption.

[TubularCorporation]

Something that's really under the radar these days is broadcast audio switchers.  I got a 360 Systems AM16/b for something like $24 shipped last year, which was a completely average eBay price, and it's pretty amazing, basically a 16 in 16 out balanced patch bay with full MIDI control of the patching, an internal preset system, and hooks in the firmware meant for developing proprietary in-house software for it if that's something you'd do.  Patch switching is silent, signal path is analog. Only down side is that the input and output are on those 56 pin Elco connectors, so you're going to have to make a custom breakout cable for it (but old cables can be repurposed, including ADAT I think - cut one in half and solder the bare wires to 32 TRS 1/4" jacks in a box or something along those lines) but then you have hardware patching that can be sequenced. I haven't actually gotten to use mine much yet because I drug my feet on making the breakout cables but it works very well.  Still have to do a fair amount of soldering, but my ultimate pan is to wire it up to an old 1/4" patchbay so I can easily patch in arbitrary pieces of gear and then use the switcher to change the routing as a creative tool.

 

 

http://www.broadcaststore.com/store/model_detail.cfm?id=12993

[sheatheman]

Best way to understand patch bays is an expander for your mixer inserts. Inserts on the first half and effect units on the second half.

 

You can have them normaled for default workflow, or have most of them switched to thru (like I do), and do what you need to do when you need it.

 

Of course, patch bays can be used in more complex ways. I use mine as a front end of my sound card, also dedicated routing for my tape deck when I want to bounce to tape, and a few effects. I don't use any of my mixer inserts.

 

In fact, I recently switched out my epm12 for a tiny 802vlz4 so I have to focus on using my sound card and ableton as my mixer, which will end up in better recordings and is less lazy than recording my mixer's tape out (which is still a nice thing to do).