Accents / MIDI velocity, etc... bringing some dynamic depth into your tracks

[Lucas]

Hey,

 

I know you all have a lot to read on the internet today but come on you know you can do even more.

 

I make music since 2007 and even if I've used a lot of techniques to bring some dynamic depth into my tracks, I kind of took my time before I started using (more consequently) the most obvious one : simple volume tweaks on each note / sample / event, or say on the relevant ones. Of course I did that before but it's only during the last couple of years that I realized how much depth it can bring to a track.

 

So I just wanted to discuss this subject, and ask how you guys do that specifically (depending on what your tools are). The thing is (and it's the same with anything really), when you start to think about that, you can come to the conclusion that EVERY event could be fine-tuned. If you're psychically stable enough I guess you won't do that (because when you gave every event a specific volume you realize you can do the same with pitch, etc...) but let's say you'll have to find a reasonable amount of relevant events (L-Event) where it definitely worth it to be specifically tweaked. But that's pretty time consuming and the danger with that kind of stuff (at least that's what happens to me) is that at some point you'll lose the track of what you're doing exactly and you won't have enough distance with your track anymore (lost in the details). If this happens too much you get bored and you might stop to work on the track (then I hope for you the it's complete enough to be considered finished ; if it's not it's always kind of painful, I know that quite well).

 

Anyway, if you get a nice workflow and sort out those kind of questions in the most efficient way possible, chances are you'll come up with a good result. That's the reason I wanted to open this discussion.

 

Here's how I deal with it : for my Renoise beats, I use the "note volume" pattern command. It's ok but I find it being a lot of programming sometimes when the beat is complex. The other thing is, the stuff you write as pattern commands is pre-FX so your dynamic effects will "distort" the result of what you write on the pattern. Which is sometimes cool though but yeah my overall feeling about this technique is that it's a lot of programming.

 

A thing which I love when I do beats on my Electribe SX1 is its "Motion Sequence" feature. It lets you record the movement of a knob for the duration of the pattern, so it's pretty perfect for what I'm talking about because it's really direct (+ you do it with your hands which is always a plus imo).

 

So something I've been thinking about for mimicking that in a software environment is to create kind of automation loops that you record with a MIDI controller (nothing that crazy actually but I'm sure it'll be a very efficient little plus). It's one of those things I think about but which I still never did because even if it's simple to do you still have to think about it at the right moment and to set it up before you can actually play with it.

 

Using randomness for that kind of stuff is also a great way to go if you want really tinny parameter changes.

 

Ok those are just thoughts, now that I wrote this thread I'm kind of confused because it might all be obvious somehow. But I don't know maybe you guys come with other ideas or maybe what I wrote is interesting to some of you, let's see..

[Tessier Ashpool]

Hmmmph. . . interesting question. . . . the following are just kind of random thoughts/mental noodlings here, so apologies if this is not too too helpful (just my thoughts/experience - but maybe there is no knowledge that is not power?). Anyway:

 

Now, control of velocity does not = control of volume, but one could draw a certain 1:1 correlation there, particular in terms of something like drum sounds. Although I haven't used it in ages, Digital Performer has my favoriate, favorite drum programming/piano roll function, whereby you can draw in a midi not but ALSO indicate the velocity strength by height. Let me see if I can find a pic. Ok. take a look at the images here and here. It's not quite the same as a direct physical control via knob, but it's loads more efficient (or maybe, just to my brain) than inputting notes, looking up the pertinent adjustable value in the paramater area below when you put the notes in (most DAW's have velocity there), having to drag multiple points. . . again, maybe that's just a personal thing. . . but, really, I wish I could find ANY other DAW that cause this (what seems to me) very basic, important function.

 

I don't know much about Renoise (Reaper is the current DAW of choice) but I imagine you might be able to finagle some different ways of affecting volume (or many other parameters) via midi plugins that are then controlled via knobs. Since you like the knob twiddling, it might be worth investigating if there are some VST's out there that might attack the particular parameters you are looking to adjust. If you have a DAW that has midi learn (wait, don't all DAW's these days have that?), it may be a very easy way to get what you're looking for, with a minum of fuss. Of course, you probably won't get the exactness of hand programming things but, as you point out above, that can be a fast road to getting mired in the swamp of details.

 

Maybe that helps? At the very least, to generate new ideas?

 

Good luck!

[chim]

I have yet to find a more reliable method than going at it note by note, so this is one area where I don't take shortcuts. If you stick to one instrument, and a minute or less of midi at a time, you retain your sanity. I never feel that I "lose track" of what I'm doing since I'm doing it for a specific reason in the first place - velocity and expression etc makes sense if you do it by ear and don't pay so much attention to what it looks like. At the end of the day the modulation envelopes look like the bitcoin stock index but at that point I bounce the instrument track to audio and save a new iteration of the project.

 

By the way, don't most DAW's indicate velocity by note brightness these days?

[Guest]

In renoise I use whatever I feel a bit of sound, a section needs;

 

pattern commands (advanced editor for interpolation),

volume column interpolation (I like seeing the note events and pattern-command, note-column values in the pattern editor at the same time using the advanced edit for interpolation between column values),

volume automation in automation editor (mostly spanning >1 patterns, for more gently dynamic gestures or fade-in & outs),

signal follower controlling levels (signal loudness of one track influences levels, parameters in others -> sidechaining)

rendering patterns to .wav and using the sample editor for dynamic change (great with stereo samples, varying left & right channel fades),

Keytracker hooked up to a custom Lfo envelope (volume envelope is triggered every time a note event hits it, setup multiple destination outputs through a hydra device),

Velocity tracker for balancing levels in other tracks,

Use script(s) to generate volume gestures either in the pattern and/or automation editor (automatron, automasher etc etcetera).

Something I like doing lately for snare variation in Hip Hop stuff is using the cycle or random overlap modes in the instrument editor. Setting up variations of the same snare sound, and/or processed versions of it with different loudness settings in a multi-sample instrument (you can also use a lfo on random, synced to beats, controlling the volume in the modulation section of the instrument editor). This in combination with groove and varying delay settings will give a more organic flow to the beats.

 

Also what is nice to do, something what I should do more myself, is recording live mixing. Loop a section of patterns, hook up a bunch of midi controller knobs/sliders to volume controls and play around with, record the dynamics in real-time. Too many options ;-) .

[Grain Bastard]

I have used Cubase's midi plugins for years, brilliant tools imo.

 

I would have said that using velocity is pretty common (or fucking should be!!!!) and is linked into the sound design process in such a way that the two are inseperable - I often turn down the 'volume to velocity' and use it for lots of other things like pitch and filter cut-off etc

 

No different to automating any other parameter imo and we all do that.........

[Lucas]

@ T35513R : no problem, my post was also random noodling / mental thoughts (??). Nice idea they had with Digital Performer. In Reaper you do it with click/drag at a specific place of the notes, which changes its velocity and color. It's pretty good but the annoying thing is that the notes gets triggered really quickly when you click/drag and it's quite loud. I don't know why I never looked at the program's settings to see if you can get rid of that behavior.

 

On Renoise you can write the velocity of each note directly on the pattern (with two digits). It's ok but can be time consuming, especially if you tend to compulsively press play every time you write a new value like I do. I really have to restrain myself doing that. In this new Aphex interview there's a very interesting bit where he says he can almost write a MIDI sequence for a melody he thought about in one shot. I guess it's a good idea to go that way the most you can : programming a whole pattern of the thing you have in mind and listening to it after you gave it a first take, tweaking it further after that.

 

But as Djeroek pointed out, there are really a plenty of way to edit velocity (or such) in Renoise. I find that LFO are incredible in this program. But as long as you have to record something (say some MIDI CC action) I don't really like the workflow and prefer to do that kind of stuff on Reaper.

 

 

By the way, don't most DAW's indicate velocity by note brightness these days?

 

Reaper does it (well it does it with colors from light green to deep red) and I guess it's the case of almost every modern DAW. It's a very intuitive way to read it anyway.

 

 

I have used Cubase's midi plugins for years, brilliant tools imo.

 

I would have said that using velocity is pretty common (or fucking should be!!!!) and is linked into the sound design process in such a way that the two are inseperable - I often turn down the 'volume to velocity' and use it for lots of other things like pitch and filter cut-off etc

 

No different to automating any other parameter imo and we all do that.........

 

yeah in the end everything being discussed here works for automating other parameters. I just started the thread that way because I realized some time ago that I neglected those kind of volume changes for too long.

[Grain Bastard]

I have used Cubase's midi plugins for years, brilliant tools imo.

 

I would have said that using velocity is pretty common (or fucking should be!!!!) and is linked into the sound design process in such a way that the two are inseperable - I often turn down the 'volume to velocity' and use it for lots of other things like pitch and filter cut-off etc

 

No different to automating any other parameter imo and we all do that.........

 

yeah in the end everything being discussed here works for automating other parameters. I just started the thread that way because I realized some time ago that I neglected those kind of volume changes for too long.

 

Just re-read what I typed and it came across a bit abrupt :-0 - sorry about that.

 

Your reply made me think of my mantra and that is 'remember what worked before...' - often I finish tracks that have elements I'm not happy with and remember that I forgot to do some technique that I've been doing for years to eleviate that particualr issue for example. Its usually eq based for me but can be really simple things!!! I also had a period of not using delays for some reason.

 

I try to constantly learn with production but its also important to not forget :)

[Lucas]

 

Just re-read what I typed and it came across a bit abrupt :-0 - sorry about that.

 

Your reply made me think of my mantra and that is 'remember what worked before...' - often I finish tracks that have elements I'm not happy with and remember that I forgot to do some technique that I've been doing for years to eleviate that particualr issue for example. Its usually eq based for me but can be really simple things!!! I also had a period of not using delays for some reason.

 

I try to constantly learn with production but its also important to not forget :)

 

 

I know what you mean but in the other hand I guess it's normal to let some things aside as you learn new ones. If there's something like an economy of music making, it's evident that you can not do "everything" in a given amount of time spent on a track (say the time before you get bored about making it) so in some extent it's normal that new things push other things out. That said I agree that it's very important to keep in mind what you learned, especially for production I guess because when you start you really don't know how to make a track sound well and the whole time you need to have a clearer idea about that is very precious (you don't wan't to forget the basic things you learned in that time).

 

Anyway periods of time where you forget might lead you to some weird results but you will definitely learn from it eventually (and then probably go back to some things you learned before and try to see how you can get the both work together).

 

ps. I didn't think what you wrote was too abrupt