Ableton live DJing

[Guest Promo]

Dude. Set you master tempo to the tune's tempo. Click Warp. Set the first & last marker. If the drummer isn't human, you're done.

 

edit: metronome, good.

First off I have to know the tempo. Often people don't know the exact tempos but have a rough idea what it is to the nearest 5-10 bpm. And what markers are you talking about, the default markers, my markers ... what exactly? I'm pretty well much at a loss with Ableton. I hear the potential but there is too much possibility of a fuck up in a er live situation unless every aspect is nailed.

[Guest Promo]

Fuck Ableton up the ass ... stupid fucking program doing random shit.

[Guest Promo]

Fuck fuck fuck!!! Ableton is speeding up a track half way through for no apparent reason .... what the fuck is going on?!?!?!

[Guest blicero]

haha, good to know i'm not alone. i think different people have minds that work better with different software.

 

mine apparently is incompatible with live.

[Guest Promo]

haha, good to know i'm not alone. i think different people have minds that work better with different software.

 

mine apparently is incompatible with live.

I want to crack Live otherwise for the moment I'll have to stick with the limitations imposed by using Traktor. Traktro 3.1 is certainly better than 2.5 but my frikken controller won't work with the damn thing otherwise it'd give me a few fun effects to add to what I do.

[b born droid]

I found that Ableton Warp Technique guide a while ago, I don't follow it exactly since after a while you quickly work out what size loops to use.

 

I don't get why it's so hard. Takes me about 10 mins per track to warp properly, sometimes less, sometimes more. It would be cool if it were less, but you can't put a price on piece of mind knowing you've done it yourself and it's fucking tight.

[Guest Promo]

I found that Ableton Warp Technique guide a while ago, I don't follow it exactly since after a while you quickly work out what size loops to use.

 

I don't get why it's so hard. Takes me about 10 mins per track to warp properly, sometimes less, sometimes more. It would be cool if it were less, but you can't put a price on piece of mind knowing you've done it yourself and it's fucking tight.

Yeah but how? I followed the instructions too but although I managed to get it close its never close enough. I totally get the idea of it and once its nailed you're sorted forever. But like how the heck do you warp market a drum n bass tune or anything else that just isn't 4/4?

 

At the moment the best I can manage was a few very simple 2 bar loops which I had to cut up manually in an audio editor so they fitted the Warp marker grids tightly. I tried a couple of drum and bass samples but they came up with weird bpms such as 110!!!!

 

I seriously reckon I need someone to show me because I just don't get want I'm missing. Maybe you could post a video or something to help 'cause that would seriously help man.

[Guest Promo]

Ha ha this is so fuckin pissing shitting annoying!!! I swear this bastard Altern 8 track is perfectly sync warped whatever the fuck you call it. Reads 138 bpm which sounds about right and yet the bastard drifts out of time with any samples I add to it. Its just impossible to get anywhere with this fuckin program!!!

[Guest Promo]

Okay I nailed that bastard (Altern 8) it seems. Managed to play the bastard for its duration and it stayed in time. Looked odd 'cause the bpm wasn't exact in the end. Was 128.82bpm!?!?!

[BCM]

fuck Ableton for DJing. i'm starting to use it to make tracks though....

[b born droid]

Yeah but how? I followed the instructions too but although I managed to get it close its never close enough. I totally get the idea of it and once its nailed you're sorted forever. But like how the heck do you warp market a drum n bass tune or anything else that just isn't 4/4?

 

At the moment the best I can manage was a few very simple 2 bar loops which I had to cut up manually in an audio editor so they fitted the Warp marker grids tightly. I tried a couple of drum and bass samples but they came up with weird bpms such as 110!!!!

 

I seriously reckon I need someone to show me because I just don't get want I'm missing. Maybe you could post a video or something to help 'cause that would seriously help man.

 

1) Marking a tune that's not in 4/4, I've never done it. But I assume you just change the master time signature and the warp markers will adjust accordingly when you're doing it manually. I assume they'll stay the same once you then change the time signature.

 

2) What's so hard about drum n bass? Granted I've not warped much DnB, but i've not found it too much different.

 

3) In terms of how I do it, I just set up a 4 bar loop, make sure you start the first point at the start of the first beat like it's shown in one of the pictures of the instructions. Find the start of bar 5. You'll be able to hear whether the loop loops naturally or not. Once you've got that, do the "right click -> warp from here (straight)" thing it tells you to do. then just flick the 4 bar loop over to the start of bar 5, make sure that loop loops fine and then double click the marker at bar 9 to mark it. Keep repeating that a few times and you'll notice that by the 4th or 5th time the amount you'll have to nudge the marker to lock it reduces each time. After a while throughout the song you can even make the loop 8 or 16 bars. Obviously you are doing all this to the metronome and/or 4/4 kick drums.

 

It's just a case of being to 'read' the .wav file. Looking at the file (and listening to it and seeing it) and realising where the bar starts. Most bars will start with a kick drum which looks different to the end of the bar. After a while you just get so used to reading it, you can almost do it without having to use loops throughout the songs and just go off the metronome. Turn the loop off, but still use the 4/8/16 bar loop interval as a good reference tool, using the end of each loop to set a new marker. Letting the song run you can just flick through each loop section whilst the song is playing, adjust accordingly because you can clearly see where the bar/kick starts and then listen to it when it gets to that point.

 

I don't know if that makes much sense. I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, I'm sure someone like Mosca is far better at Ableton than me and could give you a better guide. But I know this works for me. There are some tunes that are real cunts to mark for various reasons but I'd say this gives me a 9/10 success rate.

 

If you want I could make write it out properly and do some screenshots because that method is probably quite garbled. I'm not sure if I described it properly.

 

 

Okay I nailed that bastard (Altern 8) it seems. Managed to play the bastard for its duration and it stayed in time. Looked odd 'cause the bpm wasn't exact in the end. Was 128.82bpm!?!?!

Yeah you'll find that. At least - I do. It's mainly because it looks at all your all warp markers and I think it takes an average or something. It's something to do with the way it works out the tempo. I wouldn't worry too much. If your markers are a few samples out then it will affect the bpm reading. But if anyone can tell the difference between 0.18bpm then more power to them, I know I can't. When there's so many samples within a song, it's natural to get a marker slightly off. If it's around 0.5bpm off, then maybe a few markers might need tweaking slightly.

[Guest Iain C]

OK, Promo is one of those special breed of people who think DnB isn't in 4/4.

 

I don't think the problem's with Ableton...

[Guest blicero]

but we're still talking about loops, right? not whole songs? i was trying this with hip hop, where you can't just loop the same 4 bars of vocals... you need to play the whole track.

 

warping a 3-5 minute track seems either impossible or EXTREMELY time intensive.

[BCM]

Yeah but how? I followed the instructions too but although I managed to get it close its never close enough. I totally get the idea of it and once its nailed you're sorted forever. But like how the heck do you warp market a drum n bass tune or anything else that just isn't 4/4?

 

At the moment the best I can manage was a few very simple 2 bar loops which I had to cut up manually in an audio editor so they fitted the Warp marker grids tightly. I tried a couple of drum and bass samples but they came up with weird bpms such as 110!!!!

 

I seriously reckon I need someone to show me because I just don't get want I'm missing. Maybe you could post a video or something to help 'cause that would seriously help man.

 

1) Marking a tune that's not in 4/4, I've never done it. But I assume you just change the master time signature and the warp markers will adjust accordingly when you're doing it manually. I assume they'll stay the same once you then change the time signature.

 

2) What's so hard about drum n bass? Granted I've not warped much DnB, but i've not found it too much different.

 

3) In terms of how I do it, I just set up a 4 bar loop, make sure you start the first point at the start of the first beat like it's shown in one of the pictures of the instructions. Find the start of bar 5. You'll be able to hear whether the loop loops naturally or not. Once you've got that, do the "right click -> warp from here (straight)" thing it tells you to do. then just flick the 4 bar loop over to the start of bar 5, make sure that loop loops fine and then double click the marker at bar 9 to mark it. Keep repeating that a few times and you'll notice that by the 4th or 5th time the amount you'll have to nudge the marker to lock it reduces each time. After a while throughout the song you can even make the loop 8 or 16 bars. Obviously you are doing all this to the metronome and/or 4/4 kick drums.

 

It's just a case of being to 'read' the .wav file. Looking at the file (and listening to it and seeing it) and realising where the bar starts. Most bars will start with a kick drum which looks different to the end of the bar. After a while you just get so used to reading it, you can almost do it without having to use loops throughout the songs and just go off the metronome. Turn the loop off, but still use the 4/8/16 bar loop interval as a good reference tool, using the end of each loop to set a new marker. Letting the song run you can just flick through each loop section whilst the song is playing, adjust accordingly because you can clearly see where the bar/kick starts and then listen to it when it gets to that point.

 

I don't know if that makes much sense. I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, I'm sure someone like Mosca is far better at Ableton than me and could give you a better guide. But I know this works for me. There are some tunes that are real cunts to mark for various reasons but I'd say this gives me a 9/10 success rate.

 

If you want I could make write it out properly and do some screenshots because that method is probably quite garbled. I'm not sure if I described it properly.

 

 

Okay I nailed that bastard (Altern 8) it seems. Managed to play the bastard for its duration and it stayed in time. Looked odd 'cause the bpm wasn't exact in the end. Was 128.82bpm!?!?!

Yeah you'll find that. At least - I do. It's mainly because it looks at all your all warp markers and I think it takes an average or something. It's something to do with the way it works out the tempo. I wouldn't worry too much. If your markers are a few samples out then it will affect the bpm reading. But if anyone can tell the difference between 0.18bpm then more power to them, I know I can't. When there's so many samples within a song, it's natural to get a marker slightly off. If it's around 0.5bpm off, then maybe a few markers might need tweaking slightly.

 

Sounds fucking complicated. Fuck that. Fuck DJing with a laptop - waaaaay to much hassle, no intuity, no spontanaity. Sure, do a live set on Ableton and just use lots of different bits of your tracks and that, but screw DJing with it. And Traktor (I know I said I liked it, but I'm getting pissed off with the whole digital DJing thing) - just get some fucking records and start learning to mix. It's sooooo much more fun and sounds so much better and you can do cuts and spinbacks and all sorts of shit. Grumble grumble.

 

OK, Promo is one of those special breed of people who think DnB isn't in 4/4.

 

I don't think the problem's with Ableton...

 

I don't think he meant that it was in 3/4 time or something. Just thing he meant like, 4 to the floor. As in Techno etc.

[Guest blicero]

Sounds fucking complicated. Fuck that. Fuck DJing with a laptop - waaaaay to much hassle, no intuity, no spontanaity. Sure, do a live set on Ableton and just use lots of different bits of your tracks and that, but screw DJing with it. And Traktor (I know I said I liked it, but I'm getting pissed off with the whole digital DJing thing) - just get some fucking records and start learning to mix. It's sooooo much more fun and sounds so much better and you can do cuts and spinbacks and all sorts of shit. Grumble grumble.

 

well, i really want serato for this reason. i can carry my entire music collection on my laptop, and call up tracks faster than i can find records, and I can throw in digital only tracks, and not tear up my records. but still get all of the functionality of mixing with vinyl, which cannot be improved or replicated by any software.

 

plus, i'd love to be able to finish making a track, and then boot up serato and be able to mix and scratch with it, without having to own my own dubplate press.

[Guest Promo]

OK, Promo is one of those special breed of people who think DnB isn't in 4/4.

 

I don't think the problem's with Ableton...

Please dude I know that most drum n bass is 4/4 lol. But yeah I'm pretty much doing what B Born Droid describes how he does it and so have managed to get a number of tunes working pretty much in time. It does take time though but once a tune is nailed it should play more of less in time.

 

My gripe about Ableton is it seems a bit tempo fixed. I like to start slow and build up and I find its far easier to do that sort of thing with Traktor. Anyone got any good suggestions how to use Ableton without it being locked into the master tempo?

 

Anyways was doing some pretty sweet sounding mixes yesterday. Even though they're a bit primative at this stage.

[Solo Strike]

Sounds fucking complicated. Fuck that. Fuck DJing with a laptop - waaaaay to much hassle, no intuity, no spontanaity. Sure, do a live set on Ableton and just use lots of different bits of your tracks and that, but screw DJing with it. And Traktor (I know I said I liked it, but I'm getting pissed off with the whole digital DJing thing) - just get some fucking records and start learning to mix. It's sooooo much more fun and sounds so much better and you can do cuts and spinbacks and all sorts of shit. Grumble grumble.

 

There's plenty of improv stuff you can do in Traktor if you approach it the right way, you just have to be creative with it and learn what works. In some ways there can be more spontanaity as you can bang acapellas over the top of things and stuff like that in a really fluid way if you have your BPM's right... what I'm trying to say is that you can work really fast with Traktor if you know what you are doing. And yes you can do cuts!!

 

It's just horses for courses really, both can be equal amounts of fun in different ways. When I get 'in the zone' with Traktor it's the best thing in the world to dick about with! However when nothing is working for you it can be a right pain in the arse, but it's the same with vinyl.

[b born droid]

Sounds fucking complicated. Fuck that. Fuck DJing with a laptop - waaaaay to much hassle, no intuity, no spontanaity. Sure, do a live set on Ableton and just use lots of different bits of your tracks and that, but screw DJing with it. And Traktor (I know I said I liked it, but I'm getting pissed off with the whole digital DJing thing) - just get some fucking records and start learning to mix. It's sooooo much more fun and sounds so much better and you can do cuts and spinbacks and all sorts of shit. Grumble grumble.

Yeah I can appreciate what you're saying. And in some elements you are right.

 

However I do believe it is possible to be spontaneous......in a way. Personally whenever I hear a tune I think I'd like to chuck in a set, I whack it in my 'warp markered' folder on my laptop, mark it and there you go. For me that folder is the same as having a bag of vinyls. I can now pick and choose any record I feel like if i'm doing a set and thinking "oooh i wanna play this". I've got 38 hours of music so far.....not amazing, but enough to be spontaneous and pick and choose off the cuff. The downside being you obviously have to mark them before you use them, but like i say - it doesn't take too long, especially now i'm used to it.

 

also....

 

cracked copy of ableton & downloaded mp3's >>> decks and vinyls that cost money

 

unfortunately that's one of the big factors.

[Guest Iain C]

My gripe about Ableton is it seems a bit tempo fixed. I like to start slow and build up and I find its far easier to do that sort of thing with Traktor. Anyone got any good suggestions how to use Ableton without it being locked into the master tempo?

 

If you've got a midi controller of some kind, try assigning the mod wheel or something to the set's master tempo and tweak as necessary

[BCM]

My gripe about Ableton is it seems a bit tempo fixed. I like to start slow and build up and I find its far easier to do that sort of thing with Traktor. Anyone got any good suggestions how to use Ableton without it being locked into the master tempo?

 

If you've got a mind controller of some kind, try assigning the mod wheel or something to the set's master tempo and tweak as necessary

 

fixt

 

Sounds fucking complicated. Fuck that. Fuck DJing with a laptop - waaaaay to much hassle, no intuity, no spontanaity. Sure, do a live set on Ableton and just use lots of different bits of your tracks and that, but screw DJing with it. And Traktor (I know I said I liked it, but I'm getting pissed off with the whole digital DJing thing) - just get some fucking records and start learning to mix. It's sooooo much more fun and sounds so much better and you can do cuts and spinbacks and all sorts of shit. Grumble grumble.

Yeah I can appreciate what you're saying. And in some elements you are right.

 

However I do believe it is possible to be spontaneous......in a way. Personally whenever I hear a tune I think I'd like to chuck in a set, I whack it in my 'warp markered' folder on my laptop, mark it and there you go. For me that folder is the same as having a bag of vinyls. I can now pick and choose any record I feel like if i'm doing a set and thinking "oooh i wanna play this". I've got 38 hours of music so far.....not amazing, but enough to be spontaneous and pick and choose off the cuff. The downside being you obviously have to mark them before you use them, but like i say - it doesn't take too long, especially now i'm used to it.

 

also....

 

cracked copy of ableton & downloaded mp3's >>> decks and vinyls that cost money

 

unfortunately that's one of the big factors.

 

Fair enough, I'd like to know how to make smooth mixes on it, but I guess it just seems all to fiddly and annoying. Maybe I'll give it another go....

[Guest Promo]

My gripe about Ableton is it seems a bit tempo fixed. I like to start slow and build up and I find its far easier to do that sort of thing with Traktor. Anyone got any good suggestions how to use Ableton without it being locked into the master tempo?

 

If you've got a midi controller of some kind, try assigning the mod wheel or something to the set's master tempo and tweak as necessary

Yeah done that already but I really prefer for the actual tracks' real tempos to dictate the pace. I guess its the best one will have to do with. Cheers anyways.

[Guest dave1980]

well if your ripping vinyl and then trying to warp in Ableton then you are kinda pissing against the wind coz the movement and "the weight"

of the vinyl will cause drifts in the bpm so its never accurate.

on your turntable put your anti skating up full,put a heavyish coin on top of the needle,record your track etc,

if your recording dance tracks or attempting a dance mix then cue up your second track in the headphones while your recording your first one

as if you are actually dj-ing,then once you have your beats matched record the second track in and so on,

now your beats are more or less synced and you have your tracks in ableton,set your start pionts and run 2 tracks at the same time

and you will notice thier in sync(provided you can beat match on decks of coarse),if you hear any drifts whatsoever then ajust the markers your self

till it sounds right,if you do it like this you will rarely have to move markers as most of the syncing is already done earlier.

if your dealing with live drums,stuff thats not to the bar etc then try individually breaking the track up into 4bar sections or 8 bar sections, and tackle each

section separately,

Ableton Live is the best ever, work with it,dont work against it.

[Guest Promo]

Don't worry man I get the principle of Ableton. Its just that it so temperamental. Unless my ears deceive me usually I can hear when a loop is bang on.

 

I'll give u an example I'm working on setting it up for my own tunes for live tweakage. Well anyways I've exported various 4/8/16 bar loops as wav files from Cubase. Now all this files should sync 100% in time but knowing how stupid Ableton is they're probably drift out of time. The timing of loops in Cubase er stay in time so what's the difference for Ableton I ask myself? Essentially they're both sequencers so loops just shouldn't drift if they're going back to the same start point ad infinitum. I think the way they've coded the program seems fuckin odd to me. Anyways I'll soon find out if they stay in sync but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Solo Strike]

Be warned re coins on top of your stylus, can fuck your records up.

[ascdi]

near as i can tell, if you're bouncing shit out of another app and you KNOW it's at a definite integer tempo, you don't have to marker it at all. as long as there's no blank space at the front, you just set the clip tempo, right?

 

i imagine it would be easier to dj your own tracks (whether full or in pieces) because not only do you know the tempo, you know it doesn't drift at all. provided you record to a click. whereas even if there's bpm indicated on a record and you rip it, it's probably going to drift quite quick if you don't warp it.

 

i mean, right? after i sell some gear i think i am going to buy live.