my inner internet has died

[doorjamb]

it's not really all that confusing, or unsettling. makes perfect sense, really.

 

[Guest Helper ET]

or you could study, do some reading.

dualism isn't anything new.

 

i havent read up on "dualism", im skimming the wiki page now, maybe you could enter the discussion with substance rather than flashing a quick term and observe the outcome. im sorry, that sounds horrible. i meant i havent studied dualism so your comment has no real effect on me. please explain in simple words if you can

[Salvatorin]

ive seen life with less of these filters, and i wouldnt recommend anyone ever doing such a thing, unless one was psychologically prepared. i dont know how one could do that, i imagine though that it is possible and that some are very able to do it

 

i guess all im saying is that everyone is very different and are living in totally different realities...so much so that to even try to describe ones reality is completely impossible

 

Wow, you know...you are caught up on something that is second nature to a lot of people. You are stuck trying to grasp a concept (reality is just subjective interpretation) that is so ridiculously simple, it is the basis for nearly all forms of "thinking". Damn, if you are actually this hung up over such a simple fact of existence, I don't know what to say. If you'd gone further into dismantling these so-called "filters" you'd see there is quite a bit more to "consciousness" than what seems. What may seem like a pointless and dreamlike reality can change very quickly once you look deeper into the actual journey that our species has taken, which is moving exponentially faster every second. Look alive, if you don't off yourself or die in a gutter you may just be lucky enough to live through one of the most dramatic periods in Human history.

 

I'm not going to go into the nature of where our journey is leading us, because that is completely up to personal interpretation, but one thing can be ascertained: reality is what you make it, and you can make your own reality into an amazing experience if you just master that concept you struggle with: if you realize everyone lives in a subjective reality, you can manipulate your own to your liking. The world is a very large place, cities aren't. So I support you leaving the internet...get out onto the open road...but leave in a state of inspiration, not desperation.

[doorjamb]

1. listen to salvatorin

 

2.

no you say! ok, so then you admit there must be an objective universe outside of our minds then?! well what if every mind were to suddenly cease to exist? would the universe cease to exist as well because there would be no mind to perceive its existence. if you think it could remain without a conscious mind perceiving it, how could you possibly prove it? because there would be no conscious mind to do so in the first place, therefor, the universe must only be a product of our conscious mind, and nothing else

 

fallacious argument brutha

 

[thehauntingsoul]

ET have you ever read seriously into philosophy or is it all just internal and self generated?

 

Not to be a dick or anything but Dualism is one of the first things you will learn when you are trying to get down the basics of philosophy.

 

Personally I didn't read a word of philosophical text until I took a philosophy class in my second year of university and it fucking BLEW ME THE FUCK AWAY. I've never been so 100% interested, engaged, and personally invested in a class before. I highly recommend you take a philosophy class if you have not before. There are so many different theories.

 

It seems like you are struggling with the same problem Descartes was in The Meditations. He was essentially struggling because since you cannot prove that anything you experience is real, you can't prove anything because you need to have a strong foundation of knowledge upon which to base the whole of your conclusions. He was unable to come up with a reason that would disprove the possibility that we are actually in a dream or being entranced by an evil demon into believing this world exists.

 

Meditation I: Concerning Those Things That Can Be Called into Doubt

The first way that Descartes tries to undermine his beliefs is by considering the fact that he remembers that his senses have deceived him before. If he has been misled by sensory information in the past (e.g. he judged that the stick in the water was bent, when in fact it was straight), then he may be deceived now, "and it is prudent never to trust completely those who have deceived us even once."

 

He goes on to suggest more powerful reasons to doubt that his beliefs are true. In general, his method is that of forming skeptical hypotheses — methodic doubt. In the first meditation, he considers whether he is mad, dreaming, or deceived by an evil demon. If any of these scenarios were the case, many of his beliefs would be false.

 

The general form of these arguments is:

 

1. If I am dreaming/deceived, then my beliefs are not true.

 

Descartes' goal — as stated at the beginning of the meditation — is to suspend judgment about any of his beliefs which are even slightly doubtful. The skeptical scenarios show that all of the beliefs which he considers in the first meditation, including at the very least all of his beliefs about the physical world, are doubtful. So he decides to suspend judgment. He will henceforth give up all of his beliefs about the physical world. This is very difficult. At the end of the first meditation Descartes compares himself to a prisoner who enjoys an imaginary freedom while asleep, and dreads waking. In the same way Descartes slips back into his old beliefs, and dreads waking to toil "amid the inextricable darkness of the problems [he has] now raised."

 

It is important to keep in mind when reading the Meditations that Descartes intends to lead the reader along with him gradually. He begins with skepticism and attempts to offer a solution. Thus, he should not be uncharitably read as contradicting himself when, for instance, he thinks of something as doubtful in the first meditation and as certain in the last. Several of his objectors fail to read the meditations as a guide, in which the order of the arguments is important, and so make this mistake.[2]

 

your move

[oyster]

Sometimes when I'm really bored I bang my head against a brick wall until I go blind or pass out.

[Guest Helper ET]

it's not really all that confusing, or unsettling. makes perfect sense, really.

 

i find all this extremely unsettling. i will go back to the filters thing. everyone lives behind these filters which cover the true nature of reality. the more filters you remove, the clearer reality seems, and probably, the more uncomfortable it becomes. ive been close to death countless times through the form of panic attacks. was i actually close to death, probably not, but my point lies in my perception of things when i am having these experiences. almost all of the filters are gone, if not all of them completely. maybe im weak, but when i get in these states, i desperately try to grab hold of any filter i can somehow conjure. i pray for a filter, because perception without filters is sheer terror, for me at least. as i said, i imagine some can view the world without these filters and just relax in it all...in fact im sure some people can. you can pump countless amounts of lsd into some people and they just sit there and smile at you. im not at the state, im somewhere in between completely filtered reality, and completely filter less reality, like a mixture of both, and i have to say, in my experience its far worse than living in any of the two extremes. i feel like im getting stretched to a form where i can live in both views, but im only so big, i can only stretch so much, i will naturally slip into one side or the other. ive been living the filtered reality side almost my whole life, and i see that it is impossible. my only choice is to enter the other side, but im so terrified as it believe doing so required the recognition of the self, which to me is the equivalent of death, and i can handle that right now. and for all you naysayers...next time you go to the mall or grocery store, imagine finding yourself some kind of insane columbine type situation, and thinking you might actually die. really imagine it happening! its so crazy!!!!! its insane!!!!! it fells to me like most people see this type of reality and dismiss it because its either uncomfortable or they simply cant go there with there minds. this is a false way of thinking though, because everyone is going to die one day and find themselves in a terrifying situation, so i guess the question is...do you want to be prepared for the inevitable or do you want to suffer horribly? "suffer horribly" is actually an amateur phrase of looking at this. this is beyond vocabulary. you are going to die one day! ive been there. every becomes so different you will go insane! i promise you. if you dont, and you die some day and somehow escape this switch of perception, than thank God you didnt have to go through it. the fact is though, people go through this at a rate of a few people a second if im not mistaken. and we are sitting here on the internet laughing and joking about how funny things are, when you just have to turn your head, and you can see some person getting blown into pieces yet remaining alive for a few minutes, in complete, sheer, terror, about there impending doom. ive seen it i tell ya! it aint pretty! its so fucking crazy! my life has become a constant search for preparation of my own death, because ive been so close to it, that unpreparedness of such a thing is almost beyond human conception

 

sorry about no paragraphs

[thehauntingsoul]

dude your problem is that you are stuck in what appears to be a permanent acid thought loop. You are kind of chasing bad assumptions and forming facts on them etc

 

next time you go to the mall or grocery store, imagine finding yourself some kind of insane columbine type situation, and thinking you might actually die. really imagine it happening! its so crazy!!!!! its insane!!!!! it fells to me like most people see this type of reality and dismiss it because its either uncomfortable or they simply cant go there with there minds. this is a false way of thinking though,

 

The reason is that its much more logical for there to be filters that prevent you from having to worry about dying at every waking second. Sure its more realistic to acknowledge that there are infinite possible ways to die at any given second, but it does not benefit us much in the long scale goal of surviving.

 

Here is a good example of your train of thought pushed to the extreme just to illustrate the problem for you:

 

Any time you walk past a hobo he could jump on you and hold you down and rape you until you cry. Now you could be worried of this of every homeless person you pass because its a real possibility, there are some crazy fucking people on the street but do you really do yourself anything other than add extra worry to your mind by thinking this? Paranoia and worrying and basically any intense negative feeling associated with over thinking adds so much fucking stress to your mind and the best way I've found to defeat it is logic. Basically its much more logical to simply filter out the bad ideas because even if they are inevitable that doesn't at all mean you should let it affect your ability to function in everyday life, and piling stress onto your mind DOES affect your ability to function as a normal person.

 

And recognize that your head tries to play tricks on you at every chance it gets, watch out for the tricks your mind plays on you, everyone's mind works differently so nobody can help you there, you just need to recognize when your mind is processing thought in a way that negatively affects your ability to be happy/function normally. It can be tough because since it is YOU that is thinking it, it feels like you are denying your truth by pushing the bad thoughts off.

[Guest Helper ET]

ive seen life with less of these filters, and i wouldnt recommend anyone ever doing such a thing, unless one was psychologically prepared. i dont know how one could do that, i imagine though that it is possible and that some are very able to do it

 

i guess all im saying is that everyone is very different and are living in totally different realities...so much so that to even try to describe ones reality is completely impossible

 

Wow, you know...you are caught up on something that is second nature to a lot of people. You are stuck trying to grasp a concept (reality is just subjective interpretation) that is so ridiculously simple, it is the basis for nearly all forms of "thinking". Damn, if you are actually this hung up over such a simple fact of existence, I don't know what to say. If you'd gone further into dismantling these so-called "filters" you'd see there is quite a bit more to "consciousness" than what seems. What may seem like a pointless and dreamlike reality can change very quickly once you look deeper into the actual journey that our species has taken, which is moving exponentially faster every second. Look alive, if you don't off yourself or die in a gutter you may just be lucky enough to live through one of the most dramatic periods in Human history.

 

I'm not going to go into the nature of where our journey is leading us, because that is completely up to personal interpretation, but one thing can be ascertained: reality is what you make it, and you can make your own reality into an amazing experience if you just master that concept you struggle with: if you realize everyone lives in a subjective reality, you can manipulate your own to your liking. The world is a very large place, cities aren't. So I support you leaving the internet...get out onto the open road...but leave in a state of inspiration, not desperation.

 

 

i agree with lots of this. i am indeed stuck in something which seems natural to most. i noticed this a few years ago. i feel though as if parts of me are stuck behind everyone else, and that other parta of me have gone forward beyond the average mind. that is what i meant when i said i am being stretched. sections of my consciousness are proceeding forwards, while other parts are holding on to old fmiliar ideas, like im a person, or a color is a color, or this is planet earth or, "i breathe air". it feels like the only way forward is to die. the only way i can truely let go of the old and into the new is to die. i dont want to die though. im not finished here, and even if i was, im not ready for the transition

 

i truely realize this concept of understanding everyones world is subjective. but you are saying that i must create my own subjective reality based on the understanding that everyone is living in their own version of it. what i am doing though, is trying to unravel the subjective nature of reality, and enter the real one, without dying. i dont see how i can do it, yet i see how inevitable my impending death is, so i feel trapped in the middle

 

 

[Guest Helper ET]

im reading and processing your stuff hauntingsoul it will just take a second

[doorjamb]

stop obsessing over the life-death transition. I am convinced it is largely superficial.

 

edit: bit off topic

[Guest Helper ET]

stop obsessing over the life-death transition. I am convinced it is largely superficial.

 

edit: to elaborate, you are a combination of matter and energy. the universe you live in is also a combination of matter and energy. when you die, your matter does not disappear, it reenters the universal soup. you aren't going anywhere.

 

 

im looking for proof that i can enter this universal soup, while maintaining my awareness

[thehauntingsoul]

stop obsessing over the life-death transition. I am convinced it is largely superficial.

 

edit: to elaborate, you are a combination of matter and energy. the universe you live in is also a combination of matter and energy. when you die, your matter does not disappear, it reenters the universal soup. you aren't going anywhere.

 

 

im looking for proof that i can enter this universal soup, while maintaining my awareness

 

I swear to god, you need to do a big fat line of Ketamine, and then you will understand what it feels like to enter the universal soup while maintaining your awareness. Fucking changed my life.

[doorjamb]

im looking for proof that i can enter this universal soup, while maintaining my awareness

 

it may be possible, but it seems pointless to me. you are a part of the universe, alive or dead, aware or unaware. may I ask what are you hoping to retain your individual awareness for?

[goDel]

try to read "radical honesty" by brad blanton. it's basically about how to deal with all the crap your mind produces. there's nothing deep or philosophical about it. it's just that people have the tendency to not get past their own bullshit because they're either proud of it, or otherwise emotionally attached to it. it's one of the most confrontational books i have read, and would recommend it to anyone.

[Guest Helper ET]

ok hauntingsoul, here i go

 

so the homeless person situation. haha...i dont have to imagine it, i live it very frequently. and in thinking about your stuff, ive decided, as i have before a long time ago, that:

 

1. i am going to die one day

 

2. i am not ready to die

 

3. i see many things around me that can cause death

 

4. therefor i should avoid all of these things, while stile maintaining inner peace without paranoia and fear

 

avoidance of danger is not paranoia is it? if it is, then every person who uses a sea tbelt when they get in a car, is paranoid. under this mindset, every single person is paranoid. haha! yet it is true though! everyone has got the fear! its holding on! the only thing driving most people behaviors, as far as im concerned, is fear of losing their jobs, and fear of death, which in turn forms into one trying to enjoy life, behind the shallow guise of an impending death

 

you are very right! im living in an acid thought loop! i dont know how to escape it though!!! i see no exit! its very clear that there is nothing in front of us other than a giant black hole of unknown. i need the proof damn it! the proof! i must live forever in a form which allows me to recognize my own consciousness without melting into the universal melting pot and forgetting i exist!

[Guest Helper ET]

i cant reply to everyone at at once

 

lets all go to watmm chat and have an all interactive discussion about it there, then we can all get out 2 cents in. ill be there

 

for everyone who doesnt know, watmm chat is just a stickied topic above all the normal topics in general banter, you just click on the watmm chat topic and then go from there

 

see you there

 

ps drunk

[Dan C]

Living forever would suck.

[Salvatorin]

stop obsessing over the life-death transition. I am convinced it is largely superficial.

 

edit: to elaborate, you are a combination of matter and energy. the universe you live in is also a combination of matter and energy. when you die, your matter does not disappear, it reenters the universal soup. you aren't going anywhere.

 

 

im looking for proof that i can enter this universal soup, while maintaining my awareness

 

ha, now you have entered my realm of interest.

 

Now this is where you have to study religion. I am deliberately going to not mention my personal viewpoints on the subject of maintaining personal awareness in the next realm...but here is a fact: many religions have stressed that one must familiarize oneself with the afterlife before dying in order to maintain their ego in the next realm. The Hindus try to reach brahman, Buddhists try to reach nirvana, hell, Christian monks are technically doing the same process. Now what appeals more to an American consumer is the quick, surefire way: DMT. I said it. DMT can take you to the very edge of the bridge between our maintained consciousness unit (our brain) and the vast, undulating jelly of universal consciousness. And once you have been there, the trajectory of our species becomes quite clear...but I can't say it right now, it leaves me too ecstatically amazed to even type.

 

There is no proof that you can maintain your awareness in the next realm, but one can convince yourself that you will. Also, ask yourself: if you already struggle with being conscious now, do you really want to eternally sustain it? Doesn't the warm embrace of assimilation and eternal rest sound nice?

[thehauntingsoul]

I can't get into the chat, but I'm heading out, will continue this philosophical drabble whenever i get back to my computer

[Guest IRARI]

you ask for help too much... if your awareness does survive you might have to work things out on your own

[Guest hahathhat]

ive taken a long break from posting, with the exception of a few posts here and there, due to work mostly, and i find it almost impossible to relate to most of you now. i feel like anything i post is fake, like i have to adhere to a certain code in order to fit in, and im not willing to compromise my quality of being to make you laugh out loud. i dont have anything to say about most of the things people are talking about. have i died? am i be dead?

 

whats happening to me? ive never felt like this long before? now im back and i dont like it. am i dead? can someone please make me a bit more comfortable? you know...make me feel a bit at home

 

nope, im dead

 

before you go, could you send me that pyramid chart? you started a thread about it ages ago and i can't find it, but it's very important.

[Guest Helper ET]

you are the one who made a thread about it. i only keep bringing it up because it interested me. now you claim you dont even know it exists... right. you are one of them

[Guest hahathhat]

you are the one who made a thread about it. i only keep bringing it up because it interested me. now you claim you dont even know it exists... right. you are one of them

 

you smoke too much weed, your brain is scrambled, sort that out m'man

[keltoi]

ET you think too much. your perpetual navel gazing is pushing your head firmly up your arse... thing is there's nothing else up there apart from shite and stuff...

 

this image will help you...

 

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