karmakramer Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i hope the 20 minute preview i saw had very rough implementation of 3d. If the movie was rated on it's 3d filmmaking techniques alone, the live action shots blow away anything else out there, the depth is pretty impressive. I was a little disappointed when Pandora is full CGI with how 'deep' the 3d looked in certain parts. Like the scene they keep showing on the trailer of them getting on the back of that dragon, it;s like a 100mph drop straight down. In 'A Christmas Carol' for example the opening credits were just an arial view flying over the city felt a lot more 3d and tactile than that scene i watched in Avatar. In a Christmas carol you almost feel as if you are floating because of how fast the acceleration is, in avatar i didn't get the same effect during the massive fly over shots. I even noticed distinct 2d planes being positioned to create the illusion of 3d. For example a bunch of grass and trees in the background with the 3d glasses on looked more like a cardboard cutout than an actual object in front of you. I'm going to go with the theory that SOME of the 3d implementation is not finished. I do remember one amazing looking 3d CGI shot though of jake being chased through the jungle by a giant creature, there were definitely fleeting moments while i was watching that part thinking 'ok he's right this is really groundbreaking' I saw Christmas Carol last night and it was definitely extremely impressive in many scenes (the flying was awesome)... the one thing I have been noticing is that the more you see 3D the more it becomes more natural for your brain to process and therefore more real. The first time I saw Coraline in 3D some of the action sequences were a little glitchy and whatnot, but the second viewing those glitches were gone. My friend who saw Christmas Carol (was only his second time for 3D) said that he had more problems with it then I did... and he said when he saw Monster vs. Aliens it was basically impossible to tell what was going on. It might just be coincidental but it seems like every viewing gets your mind more and more accustom to the 3D effect. The 3D previews before the movie are actually really there because it allows the audience to ease into the effects before the movie starts. Overall even when things don't work perfectly with 3D I still think its just far more interesting and enjoyable then 2D. nice, glad to hear you saw it. flying was probably the best use of 3d in the whole movie, although i got some crazy uncanny valley effects while watching. Did you feel like at any time , maybe 2-8 second bursts that you were actually watching a real human being? some of the parts with gary oldman and the ghost of christmas present (when he's decaying with the lighting flickering) really blew me away. It depends I thought the Ghost of Christmas Present was the most real looking in terms of the CG... I noticed that the more normal looking humans (children/women) were far more fake looking then the people who had a more distinct look. And yeah the 3D at times made some of characters feel eerily real and as if they were right in front of you. The one shot in that "clock room" with the Ghost of Christmas Present and the single light was lit from above, it looked completely real. I thought they switched to live-action for a second LOL edit: and yeah there was a few 3D bumper graphics, one for Imax (a count down), and two for the production companies of the Christmas Carol. Pretty crazy stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 . The one shot in that "clock room" with the Ghost of Christmas Present and the single light was lit from above, it looked completely real. I thought they switched to live-action for a second LOL dude, YES that freaked me out a lot. were there any kids in the theatre with you? there was like an 8 and 10 year old girl sitting directly next to me and they were SOOO scared for most of the movie. hats off to zemeckis for getting away with a genuinely scary christmas family film! times are a changing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakramer Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 . The one shot in that "clock room" with the Ghost of Christmas Present and the single light was lit from above, it looked completely real. I thought they switched to live-action for a second LOL dude, YES that freaked me out a lot. were there any kids in the theatre with you? there was like an 8 and 10 year old girl sitting directly next to me and they were SOOO scared for most of the movie. hats off to zemeckis for getting away with a genuinely scary christmas family film! times are a changing LOL yeah that film was not really for kids. When the guys mouth fell off, I turned to my friend and was like "this is suppose to be a kids movie?!.... Damn" What was that rated PG? The dialogue also seemed pretty advanced for a kids movie. Didn't bother me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremymacgregor87 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I wear glasses, how does this affect me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakramer Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I wear glasses, how does this affect me? The Imax ones are big enough that I think you could have glasses on underneath... not sure about other theaters. I'm sure its been thought of when they design the 3D glasses so I doubt it will be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremymacgregor87 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I wear glasses, how does this affect me? The Imax ones are big enough that I think you could have glasses on underneath... not sure about other theaters. I'm sure its been thought of when they design the 3D glasses so I doubt it will be a problem. hooray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 when i saw Christmas Carol and Avatar preview in the theatre they gave out crappy 3d glasses that had no hinges, you just bend the 1 piece of plastic (it's basically a headband with polarized lenses) around your head to a fit. I remember when i saw Beowulf they gave out these really nice real feeling glasses, they actually looked like any pair of cheap sunglasses you would pick up at a Rite aid. could be a trademark of 'Real3d' , i think that was the format i saw it in. Anyways i hope by the time Avatar comes out they have some better glasses. edit: maybe the ones im complaining about are the imax ones? i think they could construct something a little more comfortable. they seem basically like disposable glasses , it's strange they make you return them at the end of the showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakramer Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 when i saw Christmas Carol and Avatar preview in the theatre they gave out crappy 3d glasses that had no hinges, you just bend the 1 piece of plastic (it's basically a headband with polarized lenses) around your head to a fit. I remember when i saw Beowulf they gave out these really nice real feeling glasses, they actually looked like any pair of cheap sunglasses you would pick up at a Rite aid. could be a trademark of 'Real3d' , i think that was the format i saw it in. Anyways i hope by the time Avatar comes out they have some better glasses. edit: maybe the ones im complaining about are the imax ones? i think they could construct something a little more comfortable. they seem basically like disposable glasses , it's strange they make you return them at the end of the showing. I think from what I have heard and from my own experience RealD is the best way to experience 3D... because its digital so you get a brighter/more saturated image and the glasses are definitely the best. Imax is nice, but honestly I find the screen size to be a little overwhelming for films because you often have to scan your eyes around to see the whole screen, and with the 3D effects it can be hard to know where you should focus your eyes, which can cause some problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Any Na'vi porn yet? Yes, I've seen the Smurf porn before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 a thought experiment: What age were you when you first saw Aliens? I was 14 Imagine yourself at that age. Now imagine watching a James Cameron film with: - marines in mech suits - alien dinosaur things - marines in mech suits fighting alien dinosaur things - helicopters - aliens riding dragons - helicopters fighting aliens riding dragons - all in ultra high quality 3D Do you think your younger self would enjoy that? Very good point. And did I just see 'ONLY IN CINEMAS'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazen Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Still pimping my avatar thread. here's a good video at Rotten Tomatoes (not embeddable unfortunately) that shows a lot of the human hardware from the film, with a lot of combat clips that weren't in the trailers. http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/dor/objects/800318/avatar/videos/avatar_hardware.html;jsessionid=37f2lrfodptv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesomeperson Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 - aliens riding dragons Mm... no, giant blue cat people riding dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 here's a 4 minute clip from the movie - the Thanator chase scene. Its a bad quality camcord rip of something playing on an xbox for some reason, but it gives a good sense of how the Avatars move. Check out Sigourney. edit: old link is down. new link: http://www.aceshowbiz.com/video/download/00010849/ they showed a shorter version of this scene in Imax 3D on 'Avatar Day' thans for posting the link, that was probably the most impressive part they showed at Avatar Day, i especially like it without the music i hope they keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 i think maybe part of why this scene works so well (besides how beautiful the 3d depth was during the chase) is that the avatars are wearing normal human clothing where the physics of it responding to their movements looks real. The navi bodies without clothing on suffer a little too much from the 'rubbery' cgi look i think in comparison. edit: im a little confused on Jake's character, is he a US marine? if he is why in the preview is he speaking in an australian accent about what the Avatars are? In this he's doing an american accent edit2: i guess after seeing the trailer again, it's not Jake talking to us for that brief scene in the trailer, it's Sam Worthington. odd & jarring to say the least edit3: have we talked about the horrible font choice yet for the Avatar title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 at that resolution it just looks like a videogame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary C Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 The weapons and vehicles do actually look awesome. Definitely comparable to Aliens' awesomeness. It's just the soppy side of this film that may suck balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazen Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Something I noticed the second time I watched that Thanator clip, was how good the camerawork and editing is. e.g. Look at the shot at 00:31, the camera is looking past Jake to Sigourney in the background as she talks. Thats the first point in the scene that their relative positions get shown. The camera only stays in that position for a second or two, then Jake lifts his gun and the camera moves more onto him. Its a very subtle shot. The main reason that filmmakers like Jackson and Speilberg are talking about Avatar being revolutionary, and a game-changer, is not actually because of the quality of the CGI, or the 3D, but because of the way that Cameron filmed this thing. The performance capture technology he created for Avatar allowed him to point the camera at the actors and see a mock up of the CGI in real time. So he's able to use all the camera skills he's picked up as a traditional filmmaker and apply them to a virtual world. So all the way through that Thanator clip you get very human-feeling camerawork, with lots of movement. So it feels like you're watching a movie thats been filmed and edited in the traditional way. Contrast that with something like Beowulf, in which the camera still moves a lot, but in a less human way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 so no one else noticed that that scene has been done over and over in countless films/cartoons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Something I noticed the second time I watched that Thanator clip, was how good the camerawork and editing is. e.g. Look at the shot at 00:31, the camera is looking past Jake to Sigourney in the background as she talks. Thats the first point in the scene that their relative positions get shown. The camera only stays in that position for a second or two, then Jake lifts his gun and the camera moves more onto him. Its a very subtle shot. The main reason that filmmakers like Jackson and Speilberg are talking about Avatar being revolutionary, and a game-changer, is not actually because of the quality of the CGI, or the 3D, but because of the way that Cameron filmed this thing. The performance capture technology he created for Avatar allowed him to point the camera at the actors and see a mock up of the CGI in real time. So he's able to use all the camera skills he's picked up as a traditional filmmaker and apply them to a virtual world. So all the way through that Thanator clip you get very human-feeling camerawork, with lots of movement. So it feels like you're watching a movie thats been filmed and edited in the traditional way. Contrast that with something like Beowulf, in which the camera still moves a lot, but in a less human way. I agree that sounds good, as a 3D artist myself I wonder how that works in practice, though. If he is able to view some sort of mock-up in realtime I can't imagine it looks that good. Probably just some grayscale block-ins. Don't really see how it would be that advantageous either. It would be funny if what they actually did is create a camera that was basically just a big mouse for Cameron to swing around, that would control camera movement in the 3D scene, because he was too retarded to learn how to set up cameras in Maya. Edit: also a lot of the 3D in that rottentomatoes sequence looks surprisingly shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazen Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 I agree that sounds good, as a 3D artist myself I wonder how that works in practice, though. If he is able to view some sort of mock-up in realtime I can't imagine it looks that good. Probably just some grayscale block-ins. Don't really see how it would be that advantageous either. Yeah. he says in the interview that the real-time quality is not very good. But its enough to show where the various real and virtual characters are in relation to each other. And it means you have a human operating the camera, moving it slightly when a character speaks, making subtle subconscious cameraman judgements about where the camera should point at each moment. Thats the advantage. You get a very different feel to the camera-work compared to just programming a camera position in software after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 . Contrast that with something like Beowulf, in which the camera still moves a lot, but in a less human way. i disagree, i don't see any camera work in any of the avatar stuff i've seen that shows any level of technology or 'human' beyond what was done in Beowulf. Some parts of the chase look awesome because it's made i think to look like a shakey cam style. The rest of the camera sweeps i'm seeing look pretty software driven artificial to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zaphod Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 wasn't that same technology used eight years ago in lord of the rings? i remember watching one of the behind the scenes things on the cave troll sequence in the first movie and they had set up a virtual camera that could block in effects live. looked like crap but i guess it allowed them to move around the special effects with more ease or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakramer Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 . Contrast that with something like Beowulf, in which the camera still moves a lot, but in a less human way. i disagree, i don't see any camera work in any of the avatar stuff i've seen that shows any level of technology or 'human' beyond what was done in Beowulf. Some parts of the chase look awesome because it's made i think to look like a shakey cam style. The rest of the camera sweeps i'm seeing look pretty software driven artificial to me Not saying your wrong, but again lets wait till we see the 3 hour movie before we claim one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazen Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Not saying your wrong, but again lets wait till we see the 3 hour movie before we claim one way or the other. Yeah, good point. I seem to be a speculation junkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmakramer Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 USC professor creates an entire alien language for 'Avatar' http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/11/usc-professor-creates-alien-language-for-avatar.html Spent 4 years on the language... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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