Is the Internet destroying our sense of discovery?

[karmakramer]

Making this quick, can't be assed to fully express what I am trying to get it, but hopefully this makes sense... By having access to all the information in the world, you essentially have all the answers at your finger tips... wanna know what movie to watch, but can't think of any... hmmm well "i'll just search the top 100 movies of all time and pick one of those"... "sweet, this is the 30th best film of all time, I am going to watch this... this is probably most likely one of the best movie of all time"...

 

Now sure its great having this knowledge, but doesn't this create a sort of hive mind...? will people never experience the concept of going out to the video store, browsing endlessly through shelves... reading the descriptions... looking for some mysterious wonder, some lost treasure... something absolutely brilliant that you have never heard of... because now... now I can just search specifically what I want... I can ask opinions about it on forums with thousands of members. I am essentially told what to explore... and the reality of a new frontier is lost... because anyone who wants to take a few seconds of their day, can now know the world's "top 100 movies" of all time"... and with this knowledge what is an opinion worth anymore... if an opinion about anything can basically be read at anytime, there is no such thing as individual conclusions anymore. When you have conversations with people, you don't know if this is the conclusion of this person, or if its the conclusion of a majority or critic.

 

Most importantly, I myself have felt a sense of loss.... looking back to the 90's I sense culture has too. Driving up to the video store back then, it felt like I was traveling to uncharted territories. I was going into the unknown. And this can be said about most things. Music, Books, TV shows, etc... most forms of media/entertainment/art.... It is now all neatly ranked somewhere on cyberspace.

[keltoi]

seems like there is more to discover. it's often obvious when someone is regurgitating someone elses opinions. it's healthy to ignore other people's opinions anyway when it come to the appreciation of arts, entertainment, etc.

[Dementia]

More important than your sense of discovery is that the Internet now allows any person who has access to it to learn what they wish to learn, come across topics that they'd not ever have discovered in their own lifetime and all at their own pace. It's the greatest teacher to have ever existed. The Internet is God.

[karmakramer]

I think the sense of discovery is a powerful motivator and has probably inspired a lot of art/media today. It's an emotion, and that's something far more important then quantity of knowledge imo. You could still gain knowledge through hard work before the internet... it just allows the lazier to understand more, and to therefore have less reasons to go out and do something.

[Blir]

I'm discovering more things than ever thanks to the internet. I have WATMM to thank for quite a lot of discoveries I wouldn't have found otherwise. Like good music, films etc.

[karmakramer]

And I don't mean physically lazy, I mean mentally lazy. People who can't be bothered to form their own opinions so they look it up on the internet.

[keltoi]

*googles for opinion*

[chenGOD]

Short answer, no.

Before all you had to do was pick up a phone and call the video store, or your friend who had that book of 100 greatest movies of all time. Nowadays, people can go read descriptions on IMDB. How is that any different than browsing through shelves of videos? Less limiting to browse IMDB I suppose. For example, let's say you're a huge fan of John Travolta (maybe you like scientology? I dunno) and you click on his name, and you find out he was in a movie you've never heard of called "Blow Out". You click on that and findout the director is Brian De Palma. YOu can go and find it on bittorrent, or netflix if you're tehcnologically inclined, or you can click on the merchandising links and order the DVD from amazon or whatever store (I'm not getting into a debate about DRM and payment schemes or what have you, just the methods) and wait for it to arrive. I fail to see how that's any different, except you don;t get the tactile touch of the DVD case?

Besides, if discovering new media more easily is the pinnacle of discovery, we've got bigger problems...

 

Edit: and people who were mentally lazy would just wait for friends/advertising to tell them what to watch before the internet.

[karmakramer]

I'm discovering more things than ever thanks to the internet. I have WATMM to thank for quite a lot of discoveries I wouldn't have found otherwise. Like good music, films etc.

 

Again you fall right into what I was talking about. Basically I am saying the quantity might be more, but the quality factor is completely undermined by the power of knowing anything in a matter of seconds. Same thing can be said of the music from the 90's versus now. Because the tools make it so easy for anyone to start whipping together a tune, the actual artists have lost their sense of discovering and of achieving something completely new and unheard of to "themselves". Sure what they could be producing could also be produced in many different homes across of the world at the same time... but the feeling of having something extremely alien but personal is what's important. And the internet in a way is destroying that imo

[keltoi]

ps. there's alway been people who can't form their own opinion. before the internet they'd get their opinions from the news, media, peers.

[chenGOD]

I'm discovering more things than ever thanks to the internet. I have WATMM to thank for quite a lot of discoveries I wouldn't have found otherwise. Like good music, films etc.

 

Again you fall right into what I was talking about. Basically I am saying the quantity might be more, but the quality factor is completely undermined by the power of knowing anything in a matter of seconds. Same thing can be said of the music from the 90's versus now. Because the tools make it so easy for anyone to start whipping together a tune, the actual artists have lost their sense of discovering and of achieving something completely new and unheard of to "themselves". Sure what they could be producing could also be produced in many different homes across of the world at the same time... but the feeling of having something extremely alien but personal is what's important. And the internet in a way is destroying that imo

 

You still need to learn how to differentiate between what you like and don;t like. Or in the case of "factual" based learning, you need to be able to synthesise information better than ever.

[karmakramer]

Short answer, no.

Before all you had to do was pick up a phone and call the video store, or your friend who had that book of 100 greatest movies of all time. Nowadays, people can go read descriptions on IMDB. How is that any different than browsing through shelves of videos? Less limiting to browse IMDB I suppose. For example, let's say you're a huge fan of John Travolta (maybe you like scientology? I dunno) and you click on his name, and you find out he was in a movie you've never heard of called "Blow Out". You click on that and findout the director is Brian De Palma. YOu can go and find it on bittorrent, or netflix if you're tehcnologically inclined, or you can click on the merchandising links and order the DVD from amazon or whatever store (I'm not getting into a debate about DRM and payment schemes or what have you, just the methods) and wait for it to arrive. I fail to see how that's any different, except you don;t get the tactile touch of the DVD case?

Besides, if discovering new media more easily is the pinnacle of discovery, we've got bigger problems...

 

Edit: and people who were mentally lazy would just wait for friends/advertising to tell them what to watch before the internet.

 

Lol it was just an example, thats common. I agree with your points, but as I said above I still think having the knowledge at your fingertips sub-consciously is affecting our views and to continue with the movie theme, "is like having the climax at the beginning of the film"...

[Blir]

Are you saying there's something wrong with reading other peoples opinions on things and checking them out for yourself?

 

I don't like things because other people say they're good. I'm not on WATMM to learn about new music, I discuss music I know and finding out about other stuff is a bonus. If you're saying I should be relying on chance to find stuff I like then without the internet I wouldn't have found out about so many things I hold dear today.

 

I think your argument is a bit thin.

[lumpenprol]

This is related to a thread I made a while back...basically I think the future is going to be quite shit for people who crave real-world adventure. But don't get me started on that old-man grumpy rant.

[Blir]

I'm discovering more things than ever thanks to the internet. I have WATMM to thank for quite a lot of discoveries I wouldn't have found otherwise. Like good music, films etc.

 

Again you fall right into what I was talking about. Basically I am saying the quantity might be more, but the quality factor is completely undermined by the power of knowing anything in a matter of seconds. Same thing can be said of the music from the 90's versus now. Because the tools make it so easy for anyone to start whipping together a tune, the actual artists have lost their sense of discovering and of achieving something completely new and unheard of to "themselves". Sure what they could be producing could also be produced in many different homes across of the world at the same time... but the feeling of having something extremely alien but personal is what's important. And the internet in a way is destroying that imo

 

You still need to learn how to differentiate between what you like and don;t like. Or in the case of "factual" based learning, you need to be able to synthesise information better than ever.

 

Pretty much nailed it.

 

I think we have the internet to thank for a shit tonne of good and bad things. To be honest, I doubt that you would be bringing up such a subject had it not been for things you've probably read on the internet beforehand giving you a more "philosophical" mindset or whatever.

[chenGOD]

Short answer, no.

Before all you had to do was pick up a phone and call the video store, or your friend who had that book of 100 greatest movies of all time. Nowadays, people can go read descriptions on IMDB. How is that any different than browsing through shelves of videos? Less limiting to browse IMDB I suppose. For example, let's say you're a huge fan of John Travolta (maybe you like scientology? I dunno) and you click on his name, and you find out he was in a movie you've never heard of called "Blow Out". You click on that and findout the director is Brian De Palma. YOu can go and find it on bittorrent, or netflix if you're tehcnologically inclined, or you can click on the merchandising links and order the DVD from amazon or whatever store (I'm not getting into a debate about DRM and payment schemes or what have you, just the methods) and wait for it to arrive. I fail to see how that's any different, except you don;t get the tactile touch of the DVD case?

Besides, if discovering new media more easily is the pinnacle of discovery, we've got bigger problems...

 

Edit: and people who were mentally lazy would just wait for friends/advertising to tell them what to watch before the internet.

 

Lol it was just an example, thats common. I agree with your points, but as I said above I still think having the knowledge at your fingertips sub-consciously is affecting our views and to continue with the movie theme, "is like having the climax at the beginning of the film"...

 

Whereas i think having the knowledge at your fingertips (and it isn't always you know, somethings you really have to scramble and dig to find out what you want) is like having an open doorway, leading to a path, that has many forks on it, and each of those forks has innumerable forks on it.

[karmakramer]

Are you saying there's something wrong with reading other peoples opinions on things and checking them out for yourself?

 

I don't like things because other people say they're good. I'm not on WATMM to learn about new music, I discuss music I know and finding out about other stuff is a bonus. If you're saying I should be relying on chance to find stuff I like then without the internet I wouldn't have found out about so many things I hold dear today.

 

I think your argument is a bit thin.

 

I'm saying the process is so incredibly different that the emotion and feeling of finding something great is a lot less then what it use to be. I am specifically talking about people like us who do in fact have a need to search out knowledge about good music, films etc... but I think there is something more noble about spinning thousands of records at a shop and writing down/memorizing artists and whatnot, looking for something... i mean look at electronic music for example... sure this is subjective, but if I were to ask who is some of the best experimental electronic music, I think a lot of us could agree that the music on this forum is kind of the top shit or is up there at least. I mean we spend quite a lot of time researching, browsing music of this nature, I would hope we would have a good idea... so no longer do I have this feeling of like "wow this music is great, I wonder what I'll find next at the record shop!"

[Guest mohamed]

ps. there's alway been people who can't form their own opinion. before the internet they'd get their opinions from the news, media, peers.

 

i agree with that. i totally disagree with saying that one has to deal with something 'completely alien' in order to go out and do something. basically you're limiting whatsoever knowledge only to those who have the position to gain that via other rl channels, and that usually includes being in higher layers of the society with expensive university courses or stuff like that. it's up to the person to understand what to do once reached x goal, to know that little more about themselves and actually do something. i think it's in the context following the information that one has to undersand that the internet does not subsitute your brain and your ability to think and discover.

[karmakramer]

Interesting point, I'm kind of playing a little devil's advocate here, just to see where some thoughts go.

[Blir]

Are you saying there's something wrong with reading other peoples opinions on things and checking them out for yourself?

 

I don't like things because other people say they're good. I'm not on WATMM to learn about new music, I discuss music I know and finding out about other stuff is a bonus. If you're saying I should be relying on chance to find stuff I like then without the internet I wouldn't have found out about so many things I hold dear today.

 

I think your argument is a bit thin.

 

I'm saying the process is so incredibly different that the emotion and feeling of finding something great is a lot less then what it use to be. I am specifically talking about people like us who do in fact have a need to search out knowledge about good music, films etc... but I think there is something more noble about spinning thousands of records at a shop and writing down/memorizing artists and whatnot, looking for something... i mean look at electronic music for example... sure this is subjective, but if I were to ask who is some of the best experimental electronic music, I think a lot of us could agree that the music on this forum is kind of the top shit or is up there at least. I mean we spend quite a lot of time researching, browsing music of this nature, I would hope we would have a good idea... so no longer do I have this feeling of like "wow this music is great, I wonder what I'll find next at the record shop!"

 

"Noble" is a matter of perspective. Sounds to me like someone longing for the 'good ol days', for no real reason.

 

Reminds me of something someone said to me when I was younger. Made some ridiculous statement about fighting with a sword is more honorable than fighting with a gun. Putting the obvious violence statement aside, I pointed out that surely two men fighting with swords is just as honorable as two men fighting with guns. The fact is he was arguing that somethign being older than something makes it automatically more respectable. But I think that perhaps when you're bringing up such an argument on an IDM forum you should take into consideration that a lot of music mentioned on here is simply not in the stores - so that renders a lot of your sifting through vinyls argument null. And certainly until I started working in the city, I had limited access to music that I can now find out about and order online.

[karmakramer]

Are you saying there's something wrong with reading other peoples opinions on things and checking them out for yourself?

 

I don't like things because other people say they're good. I'm not on WATMM to learn about new music, I discuss music I know and finding out about other stuff is a bonus. If you're saying I should be relying on chance to find stuff I like then without the internet I wouldn't have found out about so many things I hold dear today.

 

I think your argument is a bit thin.

 

I'm saying the process is so incredibly different that the emotion and feeling of finding something great is a lot less then what it use to be. I am specifically talking about people like us who do in fact have a need to search out knowledge about good music, films etc... but I think there is something more noble about spinning thousands of records at a shop and writing down/memorizing artists and whatnot, looking for something... i mean look at electronic music for example... sure this is subjective, but if I were to ask who is some of the best experimental electronic music, I think a lot of us could agree that the music on this forum is kind of the top shit or is up there at least. I mean we spend quite a lot of time researching, browsing music of this nature, I would hope we would have a good idea... so no longer do I have this feeling of like "wow this music is great, I wonder what I'll find next at the record shop!"

 

"Noble" is a matter of perspective. Sounds to me like someone longing for the 'good ol days', for no real reason.

 

Reminds me of something someone said to me when I was younger. Made some ridiculous statement about fighting with a sword is more honorable than fighting with a gun. Putting the obvious violence statement aside, I pointed out that surely two men fighting with swords is just as honorable as two men fighting with guns. The fact is he was arguing that somethign being older than something makes it automatically more respectable. But I think that perhaps when you're bringing up such an argument on an IDM forum you should take into consideration that a lot of music mentioned on here is simply not in the stores - so that renders a lot of your sifting through vinyls argument null. And certainly until I started working in the city, I had limited access to music that I can now find out about and order online.

 

Fighting with swords is more noble though because it takes more mastery to be good at it. Anyone can shoot a gun.

[Blir]

Are you saying there's something wrong with reading other peoples opinions on things and checking them out for yourself?

 

I don't like things because other people say they're good. I'm not on WATMM to learn about new music, I discuss music I know and finding out about other stuff is a bonus. If you're saying I should be relying on chance to find stuff I like then without the internet I wouldn't have found out about so many things I hold dear today.

 

I think your argument is a bit thin.

 

I'm saying the process is so incredibly different that the emotion and feeling of finding something great is a lot less then what it use to be. I am specifically talking about people like us who do in fact have a need to search out knowledge about good music, films etc... but I think there is something more noble about spinning thousands of records at a shop and writing down/memorizing artists and whatnot, looking for something... i mean look at electronic music for example... sure this is subjective, but if I were to ask who is some of the best experimental electronic music, I think a lot of us could agree that the music on this forum is kind of the top shit or is up there at least. I mean we spend quite a lot of time researching, browsing music of this nature, I would hope we would have a good idea... so no longer do I have this feeling of like "wow this music is great, I wonder what I'll find next at the record shop!"

 

"Noble" is a matter of perspective. Sounds to me like someone longing for the 'good ol days', for no real reason.

 

Reminds me of something someone said to me when I was younger. Made some ridiculous statement about fighting with a sword is more honorable than fighting with a gun. Putting the obvious violence statement aside, I pointed out that surely two men fighting with swords is just as honorable as two men fighting with guns. The fact is he was arguing that somethign being older than something makes it automatically more respectable. But I think that perhaps when you're bringing up such an argument on an IDM forum you should take into consideration that a lot of music mentioned on here is simply not in the stores - so that renders a lot of your sifting through vinyls argument null. And certainly until I started working in the city, I had limited access to music that I can now find out about and order online.

 

Fighting with swords is more noble though because it takes more mastery to be good at it. Anyone can shoot a gun.

 

Anyone can swing a sword. But that's beside the point.

[keltoi]

kids today will never experience the excruciating slow death of the plague... they just don't know they're born.

[Guest mohamed]

to reinforce my point i'll add that the pure 'knowing of something' does not actually chance anything in the realm of hard work. and that finding informations about something previously obscure requires an ability to think, and recognize by itself that was there before the internet was created.

[Guest Coalbucket PI]

I'm cool with it