health care

[GORDO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVYugB5uy-o

[Guest hahathhat]

the government will, as usual, continue to do whatever the fuck it wants. it seems to want privatized health care.

[Guest Yegg]

Rush Limbaugh yesterday had a rare moment of truth break through in his show

 

you know how most of the time republican talk show hosts keep up this fake line of 'the Obama care plan is radically left wing socialist' ?

 

well a vetern called Rush a few days ago and said 'I thought the whole point of the Obama care plan was to help the uninsured, but if they are finining people who don't buy private health insurance how is that going to help the uninsured?' Rush then seemed to turn into a different 'character' on his show, one that actually knew the truth and he responded 'well see that's the whole trick, they tug on the heart strings by proposing something humanitarian, but in reality the law will actually line the pockets of private corporations' It was the only time i've listened to his show where he turned off the fake character of republican talking point machine and actually said something accurate

 

 

edit: in fact most of the people i've mentioned this to literally do not believe me. A good friend of mine stayed here on Christmas who supported the healthcare bill and i mentioned to him this 'fine' that will hapenn via the IRS if you don't buy a private plan. He looked at me in total disbelief and i had to show him like 5 news articles online about it before i convinced him it was true

 

sorry if im coming off spiteful in this discussion, i'm at my wit's end with people who have been loyal to obama regardless of his policies. I've watched a great deal of people i know be on sedatives for the past year and its beyond disturbing.

 

Didn't he recently have a heart attack? Maybe it put things in perspective for Rush.

[Guest Fishtank]

[goDel]

is there such a thing as solidarity in the us? the whole idea behind insurance is solidarity. you know, we all pay a small amount to make sure that whenever we're actually in need for help it's all been paid for. yes, you pay a small amount for someone elses help. and yes, you will not go bankrupt (or be actually helped) whenever you're in need of help. or, in other words, you pay a small amount to not have to worry about anything. and it only works when everyone is with it. the more people there are in the program, the more benefits there are for all the people in the program. is it really that hard to understand?

[Guest leprechaun]

I think one of the differences between the US and other countries that have nationalized health care is that we (needlessly?) spend a lot more on defense/military. If we cut a good chunk of our defense spending and redirected it toward health care, I would hazard a guess we would have more than enough.

[Dan C]

Reading this thread as an outsider is incredibly interesting... and lulzy.

[Dale]

is there such a thing as solidarity in the us? the whole idea behind insurance is solidarity. you know, we all pay a small amount to make sure that whenever we're actually in need for help it's all been paid for. yes, you pay a small amount for someone elses help. and yes, you will not go bankrupt (or be actually helped) whenever you're in need of help. or, in other words, you pay a small amount to not have to worry about anything. and it only works when everyone is with it. the more people there are in the program, the more benefits there are for all the people in the program. is it really that hard to understand?

Insurance is not there to help - if insurers could pay every claim, they will go out of business and it would defeat the whole object of a "business" -- this is simple economics.. However, take the NHS = if there is a pre-existing medical condition, the British Government nor the staff at the NHS care about the pre-existing problem at hand, or the financial consequences - their main concern is helping the patient get better with no profit motive involved, however - insurance is the complete opposite - they will decline your claim if your condition is pre-existing before the inception (start date) of the insurance policy.. insurers need to maintain their pathetic market share which holds absolutely zero social relevance or human concern. Isn't it easy to see how backwards the medical system works in the US? Doesn't anyone work in insurance or even understands how it works?

[azatoth]

is there such a thing as solidarity in the us? the whole idea behind insurance is solidarity. you know, we all pay a small amount to make sure that whenever we're actually in need for help it's all been paid for. yes, you pay a small amount for someone elses help. and yes, you will not go bankrupt (or be actually helped) whenever you're in need of help. or, in other words, you pay a small amount to not have to worry about anything. and it only works when everyone is with it. the more people there are in the program, the more benefits there are for all the people in the program. is it really that hard to understand?

the american way of thinking is basically 'fuck you, got mine'

[Guest Z_B_Z]

i think the u.s. is bent on self destruction. its sounds cliche but its all about greed run amok.

 

the american way of thinking is basically 'fuck you, got mine'

 

or 'dont worry, im good for it'.

[Dale]

i think the u.s. is bent on self destruction. its sounds cliche but its all about greed run amok.

 

the american way of thinking is basically 'fuck you, got mine'

 

or 'dont worry, im good for it'.

Capitalism will crash at some stage - it can't keep going the way it is at the moment

That being said, the very relevancy of money must also come into question when we have excellent technological advancements year-by-year.

[goDel]

is there such a thing as solidarity in the us? the whole idea behind insurance is solidarity. you know, we all pay a small amount to make sure that whenever we're actually in need for help it's all been paid for. yes, you pay a small amount for someone elses help. and yes, you will not go bankrupt (or be actually helped) whenever you're in need of help. or, in other words, you pay a small amount to not have to worry about anything. and it only works when everyone is with it. the more people there are in the program, the more benefits there are for all the people in the program. is it really that hard to understand?

Insurance is not there to help - if insurers could pay every claim, they will go out of business and it would defeat the whole object of a "business" -- this is simple economics.. However, take the NHS = if there is a pre-existing medical condition, the British Government nor the staff at the NHS care about the pre-existing problem at hand, or the financial consequences - their main concern is helping the patient get better with no profit motive involved, however - insurance is the complete opposite - they will decline your claim if your condition is pre-existing before the inception (start date) of the insurance policy.. insurers need to maintain their pathetic market share which holds absolutely zero social relevance or human concern. Isn't it easy to see how backwards the medical system works in the US? Doesn't anyone work in insurance or even understands how it works?

 

the whole pre-existing conditions thing is invented by the american pseudo-health-insurance industry. it is not what makes insurance insurance. perhaps in america you're made to think that way. the rest of the world works 'slightly' different. in many way the american health industry is the exception to the rule. this is one of those exceptions. you're free to believe what you want, of course.

 

ps. i work in the dutch health-insurance industry

[Dale]

is there such a thing as solidarity in the us? the whole idea behind insurance is solidarity. you know, we all pay a small amount to make sure that whenever we're actually in need for help it's all been paid for. yes, you pay a small amount for someone elses help. and yes, you will not go bankrupt (or be actually helped) whenever you're in need of help. or, in other words, you pay a small amount to not have to worry about anything. and it only works when everyone is with it. the more people there are in the program, the more benefits there are for all the people in the program. is it really that hard to understand?

Insurance is not there to help - if insurers could pay every claim, they will go out of business and it would defeat the whole object of a "business" -- this is simple economics.. However, take the NHS = if there is a pre-existing medical condition, the British Government nor the staff at the NHS care about the pre-existing problem at hand, or the financial consequences - their main concern is helping the patient get better with no profit motive involved, however - insurance is the complete opposite - they will decline your claim if your condition is pre-existing before the inception (start date) of the insurance policy.. insurers need to maintain their pathetic market share which holds absolutely zero social relevance or human concern. Isn't it easy to see how backwards the medical system works in the US? Doesn't anyone work in insurance or even understands how it works?

 

the whole pre-existing conditions thing is invented by the american pseudo-health-insurance industry. it is not what makes insurance insurance. perhaps in america you're made to think that way. the rest of the world works 'slightly' different. in many way the american health industry is the exception to the rule. this is one of those exceptions. you're free to believe what you want, of course.

 

ps. i work in the dutch health-insurance industry

Sure, I understand what you mean - but declining claims under a "pre-existing" clause is not exclusive to the American health insurance industry. It doesn't matter about the type of insurance - their agenda is to minimise on claim costs (this is not looking out for the person being insured), this is only looking out for the company's survival.. Customers buy insurance, under a false belief that they have a "fully covered policy".. when in fact there is small print involved which a very small number of people actually read through, there is a whole team of underwriters who set out terms and conditions to their profitable advantage, there is a whole degree of subjectivity involved e.g the insurers interpretation of the policy wording will always prevail. I could go on, but realising that you work in insurance indicates you probably know a lot of this any way. Insurance is a complete irrelevancy to society, there are other ways and means of solving problems.

[goDel]

is there such a thing as solidarity in the us? the whole idea behind insurance is solidarity. you know, we all pay a small amount to make sure that whenever we're actually in need for help it's all been paid for. yes, you pay a small amount for someone elses help. and yes, you will not go bankrupt (or be actually helped) whenever you're in need of help. or, in other words, you pay a small amount to not have to worry about anything. and it only works when everyone is with it. the more people there are in the program, the more benefits there are for all the people in the program. is it really that hard to understand?

Insurance is not there to help - if insurers could pay every claim, they will go out of business and it would defeat the whole object of a "business" -- this is simple economics.. However, take the NHS = if there is a pre-existing medical condition, the British Government nor the staff at the NHS care about the pre-existing problem at hand, or the financial consequences - their main concern is helping the patient get better with no profit motive involved, however - insurance is the complete opposite - they will decline your claim if your condition is pre-existing before the inception (start date) of the insurance policy.. insurers need to maintain their pathetic market share which holds absolutely zero social relevance or human concern. Isn't it easy to see how backwards the medical system works in the US? Doesn't anyone work in insurance or even understands how it works?

 

the whole pre-existing conditions thing is invented by the american pseudo-health-insurance industry. it is not what makes insurance insurance. perhaps in america you're made to think that way. the rest of the world works 'slightly' different. in many way the american health industry is the exception to the rule. this is one of those exceptions. you're free to believe what you want, of course.

 

ps. i work in the dutch health-insurance industry

Sure, I understand what you mean - but declining claims under a "pre-existing" clause is not exclusive to the American health insurance industry. It doesn't matter about the type of insurance - their agenda is to minimise on claim costs (this is not looking out for the person being insured), this is only looking out for the company's survival.. Customers buy insurance, under a false belief that they have a "fully covered policy".. when in fact there is small print involved which a very small number of people actually read through, there is a whole team of underwriters who set out terms and conditions to their profitable advantage, there is a whole degree of subjectivity involved e.g the insurers interpretation of the policy wording will always prevail. I could go on, but realising that you work in insurance indicates you probably know a lot of this any way. Insurance is a complete irrelevancy to society, there are other ways and means of solving problems.

 

first of all: health insurance is not just any kind of insurance. in non health-insurance, lets say car-insurance, it's normal that people with more risk of making costs, must pay a higher fee. in health-insurance this is, to my knowledge, not normal. in america there are such things as pre-existing conditions. you mention other countries work similar as well. if you can point them, i'd be happy to believe, but at this point i highly doubt it.

for health-insurance it is not 'common sense' to make people pay a higher fee because of a serious illness they may have had earlier in their life. the main reasoning behind this difference is ethical in nature. people have a right for care. it is a basic right. and because of this right, in what seems like all other countries but america, insurance companies can not force people to pay more for care. it's as simple as that. this is not the case when your car breaks down. in general, people don't have a basic right for their car to be fixed. and it is by not having this basic right that insurance companies can use these pre-existing condition construct you're referring to. apparently, in america, being sick is equal to having a broken car. let me repeat: this is not normal!

your whole point of reference seems to be the american health insurance industry, and sure all the points you bring to the table are probably common sense from this american point of view. but the point i'm trying to make is that there's is a whole other world out there where things work differently.