Bob Herbert's last piece for the NYT.

[Guest Mirezzi]

Losing Our Way

 

By BOB HERBERT

Published: March 25, 2011

 

So here we are pouring shiploads of cash into yet another war, this time in Libya, while simultaneously demolishing school budgets, closing libraries, laying off teachers and police officers, and generally letting the bottom fall out of the quality of life here at home.

 

Welcome to America in the second decade of the 21st century. An army of long-term unemployed workers is spread across the land, the human fallout from the Great Recession and long years of misguided economic policies. Optimism is in short supply. The few jobs now being created too often pay a pittance, not nearly enough to pry open the doors to a middle-class standard of living.

 

Arthur Miller, echoing the poet Archibald MacLeish, liked to say that the essence of America was its promises. That was a long time ago. Limitless greed, unrestrained corporate power and a ferocious addiction to foreign oil have led us to an era of perpetual war and economic decline. Young people today are staring at a future in which they will be less well off than their elders, a reversal of fortune that should send a shudder through everyone.

 

The U.S. has not just misplaced its priorities. When the most powerful country ever to inhabit the earth finds it so easy to plunge into the horror of warfare but almost impossible to find adequate work for its people or to properly educate its young, it has lost its way entirely.

 

{FULL ARTICLE}

[BobDobalina]

Spot on.

 

The current maldistribution of wealth is also scandalous. In 2009, the richest 5 percent claimed 63.5 percent of the nation’s wealth. The overwhelming majority, the bottom 80 percent, collectively held just 12.8 percent.

 

This inequality, in which an enormous segment of the population struggles while the fortunate few ride the gravy train, is a world-class recipe for social unrest. Downward mobility is an ever-shortening fuse leading to profound consequences.

[azatoth]

Too many Americans are still trapped in the illusion of the American Dream to make a social uprising and they still have it relatively comfortable. They keep OK'ing the tax-breaks for the rich because they still think they will one day be one of them. To quote George Carlin "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

 

But the widening gap between the rich and poor is not a sign of a healthy society.

[chenGOD]

Yeah like Azatoth said - this is not a new thing, and yet no revolution. With all the guns and shit you guys have floating around down there, get it together.

Oh i know what the problem is - that would mean acting collectively, and that's like communism or socialism or nazism or fascism. Or all 4 put together.

 

Hopefully up here in the frozen arctic we can vote out the neo-Con lite party that's been sucking the corporate teat for some time.

[Guest Ranky Redlof]

[azatoth]

Yeah like Azatoth said - this is not a new thing, and yet no revolution. With all the guns and shit you guys have floating around down there, get it together.

Oh i know what the problem is - that would mean acting collectively, and that's like communism or socialism or nazism or fascism. Or all 4 put together.

 

Hopefully up here in the frozen arctic we can vote out the neo-Con lite party that's been sucking the corporate teat for some time.

 

Exactly, Americans have some weird sense of individualism that somehow excludes working together to make things better collectively. And the well indoctrinated Red Scare makes any hint of socialism an anathema among the wider populace in the US. Get your shit together. I could see the US breaking down into separate states with independent governments, some might keep a loose federation and other will probably become Randian capitalists wet-dreams and others straight-up christian theocracies.

[chenGOD]

I could see the US breaking down into separate states with independent governments, some might keep a loose federation and other will probably become Randian capitalists wet-dreams and others straight-up christian theocracies.

 

Totally agree - and it would be a weird weird confirmation of Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations".

[Guest Sprigg]

Yeah like Azatoth said - this is not a new thing, and yet no revolution. With all the guns and shit you guys have floating around down there, get it together.

Oh i know what the problem is - that would mean acting collectively, and that's like communism or socialism or nazism or fascism. Or all 4 put together.

 

We're also collectively lazy, uninformed or misinformed and apathetic. We expect our politicians to actually do what we think is best for us (which is usually just what benefits the person voting), and when they don't, we get upset and bitch but don't actually try to do anything about it, cuz after all 'politics is their job, not mine.' Most people (myself included) don't really know what we can do to change things or feel like we won't be able to if we try.

[SR4]

i love how people talk about Americans righteous sense of individualism, as if that never existed anywhere prior to the US. its all about public manipulation.

 

if you make the history about individualism, it becomes individual.

 

and the thing with Huntington, yeah..I definitely see that.

 

 

only problem is, I don't see anyone else in the world supporting the federal-state (and perhaps for good reason), and we would be crushed pretty quickly by the militarist theocrats.

[mistymountainhop]

we would be crushed pretty quickly by the militarist theocrats.

[chenGOD]

i love how people talk about Americans righteous sense of individualism, as if that never existed anywhere prior to the US. its all about public manipulation.

 

if you make the history about individualism, it becomes individual.

 

and the thing with Huntington, yeah..I definitely see that.

 

 

only problem is, I don't see anyone else in the world supporting the federal-state (and perhaps for good reason), and we would be crushed pretty quickly by the militarist theocrats.

 

 

Come on Smetty - you have to admit that the US has taken the notion of individualism to a whole new level. Of course individualism existed before the US, but it's really been pushed in the States.

 

I can see other nations recognizing the federal-state, much as other nations recognize Taiwan for example.

[Guest Gary C]

Isn't Individualism another word for Democracy? Man, you guyz is fucked, son.

[Guest Mirezzi]

To quote George Carlin "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

[chenGOD]

Isn't Individualism another word for Democracy?

 

Not at all.

[Guest Z_B_Z]

thanks for posting that. so true and very scary. im reminded of a quote from hubert selby jr - "What we call success is about getting, getting, getting. Getting money, prestige, feeding the ego. When you follow that path in life, you're really breaking down the gates of hell. We're taught in this country to worship getting things. No one tells you that the purpose in life is giving. We have the whole thing upside down."

[SR4]

i love how people talk about Americans righteous sense of individualism, as if that never existed anywhere prior to the US. its all about public manipulation.

 

if you make the history about individualism, it becomes individual.

 

and the thing with Huntington, yeah..I definitely see that.

 

 

only problem is, I don't see anyone else in the world supporting the federal-state (and perhaps for good reason), and we would be crushed pretty quickly by the militarist theocrats.

 

 

Come on Smetty - you have to admit that the US has taken the notion of individualism to a whole new level. Of course individualism existed before the US, but it's really been pushed in the States.

 

I can see other nations recognizing the federal-state, much as other nations recognize Taiwan for example.

 

 

how do you mean? like the idol worship of the idea? because the reality is usually far from it, unless you find agreement with the "Great Man" theory.

[Guest Gary C]

Isn't Individualism another word for Democracy?

 

Not at all.

Joking. I love everything about this thread so far (aside from the crushing capitalism).

[chenGOD]

Yes the idol worship of the idea - for example Thoreau and Emerson. However the idea has manifested in reality for example in the car culture that is prevalent in much of the US. The "me" generation wasn't called that for nothing.

[SR4]

Yes the idol worship of the idea - for example Thoreau and Emerson. However the idea has manifested in reality for example in the car culture that is prevalent in much of the US. The "me" generation wasn't called that for nothing.

 

 

it does have its basis in European imperialism though.

 

I mean, following the Seven Years War there are hundreds of sources of Brits saying that the British are the most noble people on earth, finally overcoming the bane of French continental supremacy and the tyranny of absolutist kings...Cato's Letters and Bailyn mentions the swath of pro-British propaganda damning the recent establishment of strict monarchical rule in Denmark and France. The government of Britain was the greatest ever to exist because it allowed commerce to survive successfully, and the greatness of individuals was seen as key to that.

 

It continued even further when you have African and Asian colonization. Whereas the "brutish" Belgian and German colonies failed due to military repression, the British hypocritically viewed themselves as saviors to the respective populations.

 

Ok, so the individual line is furthered even more when you see the rise of propaganda related literature, and at its apex with the film industry during and post-Second World War. Here it is the failures of the British government, but the steadfast and benevolent characteristics of great colonial administrators and officials that save and benefit those they rule over. I mean, most powerful civilizations throughout history begin with the premise of our government is superior, and as conflict continues to rise, the individualism of certain great men help reform and reinvigorate...so in a sense its like saying they managed to create the greatest government on earth because they had the greatest individuals on earth.

 

And yes, I am aware of how ridiculous that sounds, but that's my whole point. It's always a mixture of the two, the idea of individualism as the arbiter of great civilizations is used to reaffirm cultural/state superiority over those subjugated and/or disillusioned with the exact same government's corruption/repressive techniques.

 

I think we tend to focus on America because well, save for China, it has been the superpower for quite some time...but given that this is the century of incredibly advanced communications, we are bombarded with the idea of it for more than previous generations....though I still say, if you search back for popular documents/fiction/histories when these countries were at their apex, you find something incredibly similar.

 

So I agree with you to a point, but its a propaganda tool that is seen as separate from the culture as a whole when in fact it is a group-think concept to begin with.

 

tons of grammar problems in here, but im lazy. hopefully that made some sense.

[chenGOD]

I never said that it didn't, obviously with writers like Locke and Hobbes the ideas of that individualism were very strong. I'm saying that in modern America, the idea has taken hold like never before. Look at how much hue and fuss there was over Obama's healthcare reform (which is in no way at all anything like universal health care), or the hullabaloo over states' rights. You don't see that coming anywhere else really in the industrialized world. I agree - propaganda plays a large role, but in prior situations, all ye goode men never really bought into the lie. They were peasants and serfs and even the landholders wouldn't have gotten in on the act. In America though it really seems that many more have been hoodwinked by the idea.

[SR4]

I never said that it didn't, obviously with writers like Locke and Hobbes the ideas of that individualism were very strong. I'm saying that in modern America, the idea has taken hold like never before. Look at how much hue and fuss there was over Obama's healthcare reform (which is in no way at all anything like universal health care), or the hullabaloo over states' rights. You don't see that coming anywhere else really in the industrialized world. I agree - propaganda plays a large role, but in prior situations, all ye goode men never really bought into the lie. They were peasants and serfs and even the landholders wouldn't have gotten in on the act. In America though it really seems that many more have been hoodwinked by the idea.

 

But the idea of "individualism" has nothing to do with the individual, or at least far, far less than corporate socialism

 

and like i said, its because of this centuries' use of communication for propaganda usage. given the US as the "savior" of the world twice over in world wars, its easy for most people to blindly accept that our roles are more individualistic. It seems that way, but it isn't. If Britain or France still had the dominance that they did a century ago, its pretty likely that they would be trumpeting the same nonsense.

 

I don't know that much about the current British, Canadian, French, or other Western governments, but I wouldn't be surprised that the same idea lingers in certain power groups nonetheless.

 

the hullabaloo (nice word) over states rights has to be experienced at least in the United Kingdom. Perhaps it doesn't always take center stage, but I have seen enough Parliamentary proceedings to tell that certain provinces or nations within the UK want more self-determination, especially now with the current economic climate. Can't say I know whats shakin in Canada relative to that, other than the Quebecois secession movement. (Creation of Nunavut? probably not, that was mostly over native american land disputes, no?)

 

Chomsky said it best, the American system of propaganda was so overwhelmingly successful that just about every other industrialized nation in the world uses it to some degree...so to that extent the propaganda of this ethereal notion of "individualism" is dominated by the US, sure...but I wouldn't say that this is an anomaly in Western history other than for technological reasons.

[SR4]

this article is awesome though, and reminds me of a long convo i had with a pro-tea party bartender one night.

 

"the government is too big, it has its hands in everything, we can never be safe."

 

"yes, you are right. look at the Patriot Act."

 

"But the Patriot Act is to keep out terrorists"

 

"Agreed, that is an excellent idea. Another good one is spending taxpayer money to have a commission on Muslim affiliations."

 

"Yup, thats a great idea."

 

"But yeah, big government is just horrible. When will the government learn to stop wasting tax payers money?"

 

"Yup. Im for the Tea Party, small government, and less wasteful government spending of our hard earned money."

 

 

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but it was literally so bad that I was pretending to agree with her while exposing how ridiculous her beliefs were...she didn't notice once...and this was for three hours.

[Guest Z_B_Z]

lol jesus.. not a surprise at all. tea partiers are easily duped/manipulated..

[chenGOD]

 

 

But the idea of "individualism" has nothing to do with the individual, or at least far, far less than corporate socialism

 

 

You're gonna have to rephrase that so i can parse it better. I'm guessing you mean that the idea of individualism is simply a propaganda tool? I'm not disagreeing with that. What I am saying is (and maybeprobably it's because of the increased ability through mass media to spread ideas) that particular idea has taken hold in the American psyche like never before. The idea in Canada of secession from the dominion is never seriously entertained, beyond the less than 50% of people who voted for it in Quebec. There are of course advocates for things like the "nation of cascadia" but that is a marginal group at best. I can't comment on England, but there is of course the traditional north-south divide.

 

oh yeah and full on lol at your tea party conversation...

[SR4]

 

 

But the idea of "individualism" has nothing to do with the individual, or at least far, far less than corporate socialism

 

 

You're gonna have to rephrase that so i can parse it better. I'm guessing you mean that the idea of individualism is simply a propaganda tool? I'm not disagreeing with that. What I am saying is (and maybeprobably it's because of the increased ability through mass media to spread ideas) that particular idea has taken hold in the American psyche like never before. The idea in Canada of secession from the dominion is never seriously entertained, beyond the less than 50% of people who voted for it in Quebec. There are of course advocates for things like the "nation of cascadia" but that is a marginal group at best. I can't comment on England, but there is of course the traditional north-south divide.

 

oh yeah and full on lol at your tea party conversation...

 

i guess in support of what you are saying you could use the whole history of Americans as independent in the sense of westward expansion, manifest destiny, 54/40 or fight!, Mexican War...thats a hard pill to defend against. However, there are some people overturning these ideas as reality..and there are comparisons to other empires..the difference is that they aren't continentally (is that a word) linked?

 

(as in, the French or British didn't want to spread "Frenchness across Europe" or "Britishness across Europe" by military means, that was for outlying imperial posts in Africa/Asia and so on.) But they did spread their culture by other means. I really think Americans hold onto the idea of "individualism" because its used to define our greatest national successes, which were usually territorial acquisition...we haven't hit our wane of imperialism yet to a noticeable degree...but as we all know, its coming...and I would bet that when it does come, our national perception will drastically change, and probably resemble something more along the lines of former Western powers...this is all hypothetical though i spose