france bans the face veil/burqa

[Guest jim]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1375770/France-burka-ban-Burka-alien-cultural-monstrosity-CAN-banned-Britain.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

As usual the Daily Mail helps to solve a difficult ethical riddle with a massive xenophobic axe. Burqa rights FTW.

[Guest disparaissant]

At least we don't let them cut the hands off thieves and stone homosexuals to death...even though they want to...because it's their culture...and that's immutable, right?

 

yeah for real

 

all muslims cut hands off thieves and stone homosexuals to death

right

especially the ones who live in fucking france

jesus christ that is some of the dumbest shit i have ever read.

 

i mean by that logic, all christians are abortion clinic bombers and all jews refuse to wear cotton/poly t-shirts

 

what is it about islam that causes otherwise intelligent people to just throw logic right out the fucking window?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1375770/France-burka-ban-Burka-alien-cultural-monstrosity-CAN-banned-Britain.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

As usual the Daily Mail helps to solve a difficult ethical riddle with a massive xenophobic axe. Burqa rights FTW.

 

ahaha oh god.

my friend was telling me that whenever anyone links him to the daily mail he just goes to daily mail o matic and posts the headline he gets instead.

i got "HAVE THE P.C. BRIGADE STOLEN FROM YOUR PETS?"

[Blir]

Fucking Daily Heil, LOL

 

"Moreover it stops sunlight giving women essential vitamin D!"

 

Fuck off

[acidphakist]

At least we don't let them cut the hands off thieves and stone homosexuals to death...even though they want to...because it's their culture...and that's immutable, right?

 

yeah for real

 

all muslims cut hands off thieves and stone homosexuals to death

right

especially the ones who live in fucking france

jesus christ that is some of the dumbest shit i have ever read.

 

i mean by that logic, all christians are abortion clinic bombers and all jews refuse to wear cotton/poly t-shirts

 

what is it about islam that causes otherwise intelligent people to just throw logic right out the fucking window?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1375770/France-burka-ban-Burka-alien-cultural-monstrosity-CAN-banned-Britain.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

As usual the Daily Mail helps to solve a difficult ethical riddle with a massive xenophobic axe. Burqa rights FTW.

 

ahaha oh god.

my friend was telling me that whenever anyone links him to the daily mail he just goes to daily mail o matic and posts the headline he gets instead.

i got "HAVE THE P.C. BRIGADE STOLEN FROM YOUR PETS?"

 

If you can't understand what I'm hinting at, then you lose.

 

I'll try and explain it here in small words for you, cheesehead: It isn't entirely acceptable to let someone from another culture come to your country and do what they did back home. There are many practices that we can agree should be illegal, such as maiming criminals and killing homosexuals (and for your information, these things do happen in many Muslim countries and who are YOU to assume the same beliefs aren't held by transplants).

 

So, the argument that they should be allowed to continue on just as they did back home is tenuous.

[Guest disparaissant]

 

 

If you can't understand what I'm hinting at, then you lose.

 

I'll try and explain it here in small words for you, cheesehead: It isn't entirely acceptable to let someone from another culture come to your country and do what they did back home. There are many practices that we can agree should be illegal, such as maiming criminals and killing homosexuals (and for your information, these things do happen in many Muslim countries and who are YOU to assume the same beliefs aren't held by transplants).

 

So, the argument that they should be allowed to continue on just as they did back home is tenuous.

ah yes it's an argument i'm not even making that's tenuous, not the idea that this actually happens in france. or that this happening in muslim countries is a justification for laws in france. i'd ask which point you're trying to make, but they're both so tenuous and utterly fucked it doesn't matter.

 

oh wait i guess there's a third option, are you trying to say that wearing a burqa/niqab is entirely equivalent to cutting off people's hands or stoning them to death?

 

i mean this is all i can see you getting at, feel free to clarify. my stupid cheesehead mind just can't make heads or tails of your logic!

[acidphakist]

 

 

If you can't understand what I'm hinting at, then you lose.

 

I'll try and explain it here in small words for you, cheesehead: It isn't entirely acceptable to let someone from another culture come to your country and do what they did back home. There are many practices that we can agree should be illegal, such as maiming criminals and killing homosexuals (and for your information, these things do happen in many Muslim countries and who are YOU to assume the same beliefs aren't held by transplants).

 

So, the argument that they should be allowed to continue on just as they did back home is tenuous.

ah yes it's an argument i'm not even making that's tenuous, not the idea that this actually happens in france. or that this happening in muslim countries is a justification for laws in france. i'd ask which point you're trying to make, but they're both so tenuous and utterly fucked it doesn't matter.

 

oh wait i guess there's a third option, are you trying to say that wearing a burqa/niqab is entirely equivalent to cutting off people's hands or stoning them to death?

 

i mean this is all i can see you getting at, feel free to clarify. my stupid cheesehead mind just can't make heads or tails of your logic!

 

Your cheesehead mind has melted into nacho cheese. You aren't bothering to read, rather...you are enraged and clacking away creating strawmen which I tire of burning down.

 

Please, relax.

[acidphakist]

And for anyone else that's just tuning in, DisP was talking about reeducation by the state being wrong, and "1984" was mentioned.

 

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

[Guest Babar]

does this mean makeup and masks are banned in public as well?

 

yes. But their are some excpetions, Mardi Gars, that kind of celebrations.

 

it's basically a law about covering your face in public. Burqas are banned, veils can stay.

 

But actually it's just about gaining far-right voters votes.

[Blir]

Yeah, but how does that have any bearing on dress code?

 

Edit: @phakist.

[soundwave]

there are many different ways of interpreting islam, sure theres the extream chopping your hands off but (as a western muslim mate of mine tells me) there's also plenty of other stuff in there for other solutions before that stage but I know fuck all about Islam and I know live in a big muslim town and I've never had any trouble if anything quite the opposite

 

for me anyone should have the right to wear what the fuck they want outside I mean if I was wearing a Care Bear outfit for a laugh would this mean the rozzers would have to pounce on me?

 

on the other hand I think it should be also be acceptable to ask for the burqa to be taken off in certain circumstances for common security and identity purposes just like taking your hood down or hat off

 

there has to be some give and take within reason

[Guest Dirty Protest]

Where do you start =)

 

 

Youre American. Youre all foreigners. You fucking tit.

[acidphakist]

Yeah, but how does that have any bearing on dress code?

 

Edit: @phakist.

 

To me, covering your entire face in public isn't a matter of dress code, it's a matter of security. I personally am unsettled by it. It can provide cover for wanted felons, would be felons and perverts could use it to get inside female bathrooms...etc.

 

Therefore it's relevant to what I was saying because it's a culture clash, and in my opinion when there's such a culture clash you cede to the local culture.

[Guest disparaissant]

And for anyone else that's just tuning in, DisP was talking about reeducation by the state being wrong, and "1984" was mentioned.

 

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

dance around it all you want, you're equivocating wearing a piece of religious garb with stoning people to death.

[acidphakist]

And for anyone else that's just tuning in, DisP was talking about reeducation by the state being wrong, and "1984" was mentioned.

 

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

dance around it all you want, you're equivocating wearing a piece of religious garb with stoning people to death.

 

Strawman, plain and simple. I'm arguing that certain cultural practices aren't acceptable in certain places. We are talking about full facial covering here, too...not a head wrap.

[vamos scorcho]

Might as well make it illegal for Jews to wear yarmulkes or for American hipsters to wear Converse

 

 

 

 

dig that!

[Guest disparaissant]

And for anyone else that's just tuning in, DisP was talking about reeducation by the state being wrong, and "1984" was mentioned.

 

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

dance around it all you want, you're equivocating wearing a piece of religious garb with stoning people to death.

 

Strawman, plain and simple. I'm arguing that certain cultural practices aren't acceptable in certain places. We are talking about full facial covering here, too...not a head wrap.

you're the one that made the comparison, not me.

besides, your entire argument boils down to "well felons could maybe hide behind a veil!" which is a ridiculous argument that is entirely conjecture, "i'm scared!" which is just kind of hilarious, and "it's different!" which is just sad.

[Guest Iain C]

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

 

newsflash you intellectual algae, not all muslims are immigrants.

[acidphakist]

And for anyone else that's just tuning in, DisP was talking about reeducation by the state being wrong, and "1984" was mentioned.

 

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

dance around it all you want, you're equivocating wearing a piece of religious garb with stoning people to death.

 

Strawman, plain and simple. I'm arguing that certain cultural practices aren't acceptable in certain places. We are talking about full facial covering here, too...not a head wrap.

you're the one that made the comparison, not me.

besides, your entire argument boils down to "well felons could maybe hide behind a veil!" which is a ridiculous argument that is entirely conjecture, "i'm scared!" which is just kind of hilarious, and "it's different!" which is just sad.

 

You're the one creating the strawmen. Your anger is leading you to the darkside. Chill out for a second!

 

My argument IS indeed that people can use full body covering for nefarious purposes. The fact that this is conjecture is irrelevant. It's conjectured that I might use a handgun for something other than home defense (which most people consider just) and yet they were banned in Chicago out of, *gasp* people's "I'm scared" fears!

 

Next?

 

I'm taking the counter point that when you move somewhere with a different culture from yours, it's on YOU to change YOUR ways. It isn't up to your host country to bend to your former culture.

 

newsflash you intellectual algae, not all muslims are immigrants.

 

What, exactly, is your point? Are you trying to argue that they therefore have a cultural foothold in the nation which should begin to yield?

[Guest disparaissant]

blah blah blah stupid

let's see

a handgun is a tool designed to use a cartridge with a propellant that accelerates a piece of metal up to speeds that cause enough kinetic energy to kill a human being.

a niqab is a piece of fucking cloth.

who is creating strawmen here?

 

i could throw a bag over my head for nefarious purposes. or use groucho marx glasses for nefarious purposes. or wear a fucking hoodie for nefarious purpose.

or look down at the ground for nefarious purposes.

 

you're saying all of that should be illegal?

drop the pretense, man.

[Guest Iain C]

I'm not arguing any specific point, just pointing out that your assumption about the nature of french muslims is incorrect. your argument that the 0.003% of french people who wear the veil are so dangerous that it needs to be legislated against is utterly ludicrous. please point out exactly where the danger lies, because I think that what it really boils down to is "I personally am unsettled by it".

[acidphakist]

blah blah blah stupid

let's see

a handgun is a tool designed to use a cartridge with a propellant that accelerates a piece of metal up to speeds that cause enough kinetic energy to kill a human being.

a niqab is a piece of fucking cloth.

who is creating strawmen here?

 

i could throw a bag over my head for nefarious purposes. or use groucho marx glasses for nefarious purposes. or wear a fucking hoodie for nefarious purpose.

or look down at the ground for nefarious purposes.

 

you're saying all of that should be illegal?

drop the pretense, man.

 

 

If you were to walk around a Metropolitan area with your face fully covered I would expect you to be stopped and questioned by the police. If you were to walk into a bank, I would expect there to be panic. And so on.

[Guest disparaissant]

I'm not arguing any specific point, just pointing out that your assumption about the nature of french muslims is incorrect. your argument that the 0.003% of french people who wear the veil are so dangerous that it needs to be legislated against is utterly ludicrous. please point out exactly where the danger lies, because I think that what it really boils down to is "I personally am unsettled by it".

jesus, this.

niqab = gun

niqab = stoning gays

niqab = hanging adulterers

ridiculous shit, just say you think it's stupid and move on.

it'd be nice if, in the mean time, you admitted that your personal feelings on it shouldn't have any bearing on the law, but that's not even necessary.

[soundwave]

we have plenty of 'hoodies' that pose far more of a threat than any muslim woman choosing to wear a burqa to go shopping with the kids

[acidphakist]

I'm not arguing any specific point, just pointing out that your assumption about the nature of french muslims is incorrect. your argument that the 0.003% of french people who wear the veil are so dangerous that it needs to be legislated against is utterly ludicrous. please point out exactly where the danger lies.

 

I've already stated my concerns: security. I personally am not comfortable with anyone running around with their entire body covered, and I'm not alone. I don't think it's an unfair tradeoff for that .003% to simply uncover their face so as to not provide the sorts of cover I mentioned for criminals.

 

I'm not arguing any specific point, just pointing out that your assumption about the nature of french muslims is incorrect. your argument that the 0.003% of french people who wear the veil are so dangerous that it needs to be legislated against is utterly ludicrous. please point out exactly where the danger lies, because I think that what it really boils down to is "I personally am unsettled by it".

jesus, this.

niqab = gun

niqab = stoning gays

niqab = hanging adulterers

ridiculous shit, just say you think it's stupid and move on.

it'd be nice if, in the mean time, you admitted that your personal feelings on it shouldn't have any bearing on the law, but that's not even necessary.

 

It'd be even nicer if you'd stop mischaracterizing my argument.

[Guest disparaissant]

It'd be even nicer if you'd stop mischaracterizing my argument.

usually that phrase is followed up with "what i'm TRYING to say is..."

but you didn't follow it up with that.

i get your point, it's a cultural minority. fine, whatever. it makes you uncomfortable. i get it. neither of those facts are a good argument for preventative legislation.

but that doesn't erase the fact that you explicitly made those comparisons? i mean if you didn't want that to be your argument, maybe you shouldn't have made fuckin ludicrous comparisons like that?