Warmth and Width

[xox]

 

i agree with a few points but there's still a bit of a contradiction here. this thread is asking about warmth, but you seem to be both advocating for and arguing against colouring the signal.

 

 

that's because 1) perception of the "warmth" is not as objective as we usually speak about it 2) i'm not convinced that adding saturation is the first thing one should do to when aiming to achieve it

 

1) peakings shoud always be below -6 dbfs. they mustn't be louder at any stage of processing

why? there's no real reason for this. -6db used to be the ideal headroom back in 16bit recording days for S:N reasons but with 24+ bits we don't need to worry about this. if you're concerned about clipping, fine, but many plugins can handle signals over 0db and not clip due to the magic of floating point processing. don't get me wrong, it's a good idea to aim for -6db, but not as essential as you are implying

 

firstly, everything i've said about the subject was an over-exaggeration, only for didactical purposes. 

now, i know that you're very knowlagable but i don't get your 16 vs 24 bit state... imo, it's the opposite. maybe you didn't see that i wrote "below -6dbfs".

what 24 bit gave us is that we don't need to record near the zero level cause it has bigger dynamic range, nothing else. processings whitin daws operate at 32 bit floating point math, not 24 bit which is a fixed point and which only gives you bigger headroom of 144 db vs 96 db of 16 bit. only the floating point has headroom that passes the 0 dbfs level, but that's the 32 bit internal math of daws. the problem is when ppl record internal tracks, hw synths or hw processings as 24 bit signal thinking they can pass the zero without clipping. internal recording we can easily set to be recorded as a 32 bit floating point file in daw's settings but recording through an ad converter is still max at 24 bit fixed point, in practice closer to 21-22 bit. so, why did i said to restrict peakings to -6 dbfs? 1) peak meters are not 100% accurate 2) not every file, audio nor sw synthesised, is really based on 32 bit floating point math 3) even if it is, not every plug-in is able to process accurately at 32 bit floating point level 4) ad converters operate at 24 bit fix point at its best 5) i'm just trying to cover as many bad scenarios as possible

 

2) first try to mix a track completely without saturators and other plugs that deliberately add harmonics. there are many. compression by default adds harmonics... 

what about when the saturator is important to the texture of the sound? you'll just have to go through and mix everything again.

 

 

imo it's better to try to shape the sound without the saturator as far as we can go and then to add the saturator. i promise that it'll sound much better. #30-days-money-return

and yes, mixing and production in general goes in circles, that's normal imo... maybe spiral is even better word

 

3) use limited plugs with a melow tone like duende channel strip or softube summit audio grand channel on every channel (turn down the saturation knob on this one). knowing a (good sounding but limited) tool is the key here.

i agree that using one effect well is much better than using two effects haphazardly but i don't think expensive high end plugins are necessary on every channel. you're right that using a 'good sounding but limited' plugin is the key here, but this is highly subjective and therefore problematic in this context. you'd be fine with just your DAWs stock standard EQ and a compressor - it will be the most transparent thing in your arsenal when used correctly.

 

 

yes, it's subjective. but there's a reason why some hw eqs are so famous and imo factors that matters the most are their ergonomy, psychology they bring and their curves. i've managed to null the duende eq and the summit eq to -60/70 db with fabfilter's pro-eq but when i use only the fabfilter for some reason my tracks sound terrible and now i use that kind of eq only for surgical duties. if you're good with stock plugs, that's even better. more money for other stuff. i mean, i can mix with anything but if i'd have to choose... that's it, nothing else.

 

4) use good low/high pass filters a lot. some of my fav are the filters on the duende cs and cytomic the drop. other great are softube's sa eqf100 and trident a-range. again, turn down the saturaton knobs.

use them "a lot" or just when necessary? if we're talking warmth then yeah lowpass filters are a key tool for rolling off sizzling or harsh high frequencies. i think this contradicts your point about avoiding signal colouration, though. if you use those filters a lot then you will be adding in harmonic content, right?

 

 

when necessary but it's debatable what's necessary here. i tend to use them a lot.  

i meant avoiding signal colouration more by avoiding clipping and adding saturators if you must and as last effects. as i've said earlier, we can't totally avoid colouring cause compression it self adds harmonics but some compressor add more pleasing harmonics then others. filters too, yes. what we can do is to use 32 bit floating points cause it minimise potentional noise associated with filtering and to use either higher sample rates in a complete signal line or plug-ins with quality build-in oversampling algorithms to minimise aliasing. 

 

5) eq effects on returns

just to clarify, do you mean "make sure your return effects have EQ on them"? just to extend this thought, i would recommend placing a highpass filter after reverb to get rid of rumble that will muddy up the low end.

 

 

yes, that's what i mean. i agree, lots of crazy things can be achieved by manipulating send/returns.

 

6) use compressors only if you must

true and this rule should apply for any effect outside of a strictly experimental context.

 

anyway apologies if i'm being too picky. i'm sure there is more context to what you're saying that i need to understand

 

general compression rant not aimed at you:

the concept of compression is a bit of a touchy issue on watmm for people who don't properly understand it imo. no one has a problem with any other effect, but compression and limiting in particular will agitate the purists. i get it, it's abused and there's the whole loudness war thing. but that's no reason to completely swear off them. i used to be deathly afraid of compressors thinking that they were bad and ruined the dynamics. actually when used correctly they enhance the dynamics, by giving you control over how things 'pump' and 'breathe'. getting big drum sounds that cut through the mix would be virtually impossible without compression. it can make a mix go from sounding weak and amateurish to bold and professional. and this is the gift and curse - it can mask a shitty song and the loudness will trick people into thinking it's good, but it can also enhance great songs and help ensure that the elements in the mix are present and distinguishable. and compression + limiting on the master just helps glue things together when done tastefully.

 

lol noooo you're not being too picky and i'm not some dsp guru, i'm just sharing my observations ;)

 

totally agree with your views on compression/limiting 

[TubularCorporation]

If it sounds good it sounds good.

[xox]

If it sounds good it sounds good.

 

 

lol

 

you should have said it before. would same my time

 

 

 

[Guest Chesney]

If it sounds good it sounds good.

 

Absolutely. 

[hma]