anybody want to start a topic about music production feels or philosophy rather than tech

[Ragnar]

 

Somebody earlier mentioned psytrance in this thread. I like to listen to psytrance but the events I have been to (and sometimes organized) have more or less put me off. I think mostly because even though the psy rave culture and PLUR on the surface seems super welcoming and all the songs are filled with Terence McKenna quotes about opening your consciousness or whatever, the genre itself is more or less stuck in the same tropes and most of the people seem to only be open to only to slight variations of the "psy" theme. Seems like everybody is trying to relive their own best rave experiences which means that of course the music has to be same in a way. But for me I get really tired mentally of the constant 4/4 blast with the every song having same effects, melodies, McKenna samples just rearranged in a slightly different way.

 

 

did I mention the guy at starbucks who liked all the 90s techno in his youth and I like I'm trying to legitimately be nice, told him about The Orb and he never heard them at the time. I also play DJ NATE IMA DOG IMA DOG and like he doesn't like it, but he can't even be like dignified about it he's like full on techno granpa mode 'wat is dis shit' even if I don't /love/ footwork I feel there's the same creative energy going on as old rave stuf. I can see why Paradinas wanted to promote it

 

*washed up old PLUR raver dude who's that guy who's way too old at the rave, sobs while hitting an illegal dildo bong*

[Ragnar]

but yeah I joke a lot my music isn't intentionally supposed to be dark, I think people mistake ANTI-VIBES for dark/evil vibes sometimes

 

https://new.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=jellies+nth&t=500&a=n

 

song title/subtitle of mine, 'jellies nth'. guess

[thawkins]

 

did I mention the guy at starbucks who liked all the 90s techno in his youth and I like I'm trying to legitimately be nice, told him about The Orb and he never heard them at the time. I also play DJ NATE IMA DOG IMA DOG and like he doesn't like it, but he can't even be like dignified about it he's like full on techno granpa mode 'wat is dis shit' even if I don't /love/ footwork I feel there's the same creative energy going on as old rave stuf. I can see why Paradinas wanted to promote it

 

*washed up old PLUR raver dude who's that guy who's way too old at the rave, sobs while hitting an illegal dildo bong*

 

 

I think you got to be stealth with guys like that. Like if DJing you should mostly play their favorite stuff, but then every once and a while mix in something which contains some of the same elements, but is kind of different in a good way. Some will probably come to you after the set and moan about "those weird parts" but hopefully there will also be people who like it. Also it's probably some peer pressure and idol worship thing - like if $BIGNAMEARTIST now says that "yea psy triplets are the future" then this will convince a bunch of people faster than some rando releasing a good album with them. I guess a lot of it has something to do with people's taste developing in certain years and then not developing at all after that, and then you have to mindfuck or trick them to accept new things.

[Ragnar]

I mean this guy definitely had other things going on. re: depressiontechno

 

https://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/kscale-protractorg-c-a3-test

 

writer's block not as bad

[thawkins]

OK found it - this is the most innovative psytrance album I have encountered. Still has those damn triplets though...

 

[Rotwang]

thawkins, what do you think of this track?

 

https://soundcloud.com/dark-prisma-records/kashyyyk-fourth-dimension

[Ragnar]

OK found it - this is the most innovative psytrance album I have encountered. Still has those damn triplets though...

 

 

did I post this? I found this once but it's still technically "IDM", doh. Is ektoplazm an accredited source for classifying albums as IDM

 

http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/virus-installer-the-scientific-method

 

for some reason this random person, I respect their opinion sometimes but they were saying this is the psytrance/ektoplazm equivalent of me? Trying to paint as this ROGUE ELEMENT within the psy scene. I dunno, don't get it

 

http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/facehead-forgotten-files-and-love-songs

[Ragnar]

https://soundcloud.com/supergrandmatales324/kscale-protractorg-c-a3-finished

 

writer's block gone enough to do a full track even if it's short

[thawkins]

thawkins, what do you think of this track?

 

https://soundcloud.com/dark-prisma-records/kashyyyk-fourth-dimension

 

I think that style's called hi-tech or something (at least in my circles it used to be). Usually they played it around 3-4AM. My impression of the style is basically that it's psytrance sped up, which is great in the sense that I do like hypnotic repetitive stuff at 180bpm, but what irritates me personally with that style (and this track) is that it goes way way way way overboard with sprinkling all sorts of sounds and effects all over the place and it can not seem to decide on any one melody or theme. Not even the bass line or the drums seem to be something to rely on. It sounds more like a mini-mix of 4-5 tracks (which makes sense since there seem to be many authors).

 

I think this may be a very personal pet peeve because people seemed to like that style at the parties. I am the sort of person who likes to get into the track and listen and see how it evolves - with this track it's impossible because there seems to be no backbone to attach to - everything is in constant movement and it's really disorienting and distracting. Maybe I would understand better if it was 4AM and I was chock full of uppers and really perceived time differently so that 4 bars feel like eternity already, but still I am pretty sure there's no godhead to attain there, it's just bells and whistles all the way down (or up).

 

Also that descriptive text is like eating a breakfast that's just a bowl of raw sugar. I wish buzzword bingo would pay out real prizes.

 

Edit: I honestly like psytrance, sorry that I came out as a sour puss.

 

Edit 2: I think the core of the matter is that my idea of trance, soul searching and meditation involves closing my eyes and focusing, whereas the vibe I get from psy rave culture and this sort of music is that instead you should overwhelm and distract yourself with all sorts of stuff (psy visuals are always really detailed fractals or patterns, etc). I think I have been more convinced by the techno approach, which is a lot more laid back somehow (though I haven't been in a lot of clubs).

[Ragnar]

 

thawkins, what do you think of this track?

 

https://soundcloud.com/dark-prisma-records/kashyyyk-fourth-dimension

 

I think that style's called hi-tech or something (at least in my circles it used to be). Usually they played it around 3-4AM. My impression of the style is basically that it's psytrance sped up, which is great in the sense that I do like hypnotic repetitive stuff at 180bpm, but what irritates me personally with that style (and this track) is that it goes way way way way overboard with sprinkling all sorts of sounds and effects all over the place and it can not seem to decide on any one melody or theme. Not even the bass line or the drums seem to be something to rely on. It sounds more like a mini-mix of 4-5 tracks (which makes sense since there seem to be many authors).

 

I think this may be a very personal pet peeve because people seemed to like that style at the parties. I am the sort of person who likes to get into the track and listen and see how it evolves - with this track it's impossible because there seems to be no backbone to attach to - everything is in constant movement and it's really disorienting and distracting. Maybe I would understand better if it was 4AM and I was chock full of uppers and really perceived time differently so that 4 bars feel like eternity already, but still I am pretty sure there's no godhead to attain there, it's just bells and whistles all the way down (or up).

 

Also that descriptive text is like eating a breakfast that's just a bowl of raw sugar. I wish buzzword bingo would pay out real prizes.

 

Edit: I honestly like psytrance, sorry that I came out as a sour puss.

 

Edit 2: I think the core of the matter is that my idea of trance, soul searching and meditation involves closing my eyes and focusing, whereas the vibe I get from psy rave culture and this sort of music is that instead you should overwhelm and distract yourself with all sorts of stuff (psy visuals are always really detailed fractals or patterns, etc). I think I have been more convinced by the techno approach, which is a lot more laid back somehow (though I haven't been in a lot of clubs).

 

 

did u hear my one attempt at psytrance I threw on the last album

 

https://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/red-and-green-together

[thawkins]

 

 

did u hear my one attempt at psytrance I threw on the last album

 

https://djsaint-hubert.bandcamp.com/track/red-and-green-together

 

 

I started listening to that album a couple of days back, but couldn't get too far along because it was a bit too distracting to listen to while working.

 

This track is pretty good though, I like how it is quite recognizably psytrance but also clearly something else. Seems a little bit like Spiral Tribe type of live improv techno as well in the first half. I think I like stuff that's like made to sound like a certain style, but all the other influences of the artist still show through. Feels like it has more life somehow.

 

Sometimes I think of psytrance (or any genre really) tracks not really as tracks, but as pieces of someone's DJ set because in the end that is what they are mostly used for. In that sense, your track is much better than the Kashyyyk one, because it leaves more space for the DJ to fill with other stuff he might want to mix in. Sometimes also psy/techno/whatever tracks have recognizable build-ups (like break every 16 beats, no bass in the intro) making it easier for DJs to do transitions. In that sense would be nice if your track had a more gradual build-up or something like that (you seem to like unexpected stuff so I wonder what would happen if you decided to make a transition from melody A to B, but in a weird way so that even though going from A to B is a logical chord progression, the transition itself throws the listener totally off balance).

 

On the other hand I also sometimes can't stand how you can basically set your clock to the different transitions a track goes through. Drum and bass does this a lot - every track goes through intro, buildup, chorus, breakdown, ambient section, buildup, chorus but more badass maybe, breakdown, end. It kind of makes my head hurt if I think of a DJ set that's basically 100% aligned to some robotic program because the music is made so rigidly so the DJ has only a few ways to mix a song, and as a listener you can always know that any fricken cool melody or bassline will always be there for only 2-3 minutes no matter if people dig it or not.

[thawkins]

Both of those ektoplazm links are pretty good btw!

[joshuatxuk]

 

 

Somebody earlier mentioned psytrance in this thread. I like to listen to psytrance but the events I have been to (and sometimes organized) have more or less put me off. I think mostly because even though the psy rave culture and PLUR on the surface seems super welcoming and all the songs are filled with Terence McKenna quotes about opening your consciousness or whatever, the genre itself is more or less stuck in the same tropes and most of the people seem to only be open to only to slight variations of the "psy" theme. Seems like everybody is trying to relive their own best rave experiences which means that of course the music has to be same in a way. But for me I get really tired mentally of the constant 4/4 blast with the every song having same effects, melodies, McKenna samples just rearranged in a slightly different way.

 

 

did I mention the guy at starbucks who liked all the 90s techno in his youth and I like I'm trying to legitimately be nice, told him about The Orb and he never heard them at the time. I also play DJ NATE IMA DOG IMA DOG and like he doesn't like it, but he can't even be like dignified about it he's like full on techno granpa mode 'wat is dis shit' even if I don't /love/ footwork I feel there's the same creative energy going on as old rave stuf. I can see why Paradinas wanted to promote it

 

 

Some sales / product promo guy asked about my Aphex Twin shirt and when I mentioned the name and music type he said he'd never heard of him but that he was into raves in Cali back in the 90s - he mentioned Waveform Records, a Bay Area label,  so he wasn't bullshitting but it was interesting how much of a bubble certain folks can get into scene wise by time and place and subgenre.

[Ragnar]

 

 

 

Somebody earlier mentioned psytrance in this thread. I like to listen to psytrance but the events I have been to (and sometimes organized) have more or less put me off. I think mostly because even though the psy rave culture and PLUR on the surface seems super welcoming and all the songs are filled with Terence McKenna quotes about opening your consciousness or whatever, the genre itself is more or less stuck in the same tropes and most of the people seem to only be open to only to slight variations of the "psy" theme. Seems like everybody is trying to relive their own best rave experiences which means that of course the music has to be same in a way. But for me I get really tired mentally of the constant 4/4 blast with the every song having same effects, melodies, McKenna samples just rearranged in a slightly different way.

 

 

did I mention the guy at starbucks who liked all the 90s techno in his youth and I like I'm trying to legitimately be nice, told him about The Orb and he never heard them at the time. I also play DJ NATE IMA DOG IMA DOG and like he doesn't like it, but he can't even be like dignified about it he's like full on techno granpa mode 'wat is dis shit' even if I don't /love/ footwork I feel there's the same creative energy going on as old rave stuf. I can see why Paradinas wanted to promote it

 

 

Some sales / product promo guy asked about my Aphex Twin shirt and when I mentioned the name and music type he said he'd never heard of him but that he was into raves in Cali back in the 90s - he mentioned Waveform Records, a Bay Area label,  so he wasn't bullshitting but it was interesting how much of a bubble certain folks can get into scene wise by time and place and subgenre.

 

 

ha I read the name Bluetech, I think there's sorta tangentially related to psytrance but like downtempo stuff? seemed like the corniest artist name, I had synthesia dat one time and saw BLUE SHIT but didn't make a big deal out of it. Or if I did it would be titled like 'shitting blue bricks like original Nintendo Power Mario' i dunno

 

the 'downtempo' genre name always confused me, what if some old guy is just looking for laid back jazz stuf and comes across it. what the heck

 

Edit: "translucent walnut oryx" stealth synthethesia title

[TubularCorporation]

Oh man, I am so far behind on this thread, I'm looking forward to catching up during the slow part of the afternoon at work tomorrow.

[thawkins]

 

 

 

Somebody earlier mentioned psytrance in this thread. I like to listen to psytrance but the events I have been to (and sometimes organized) have more or less put me off. I think mostly because even though the psy rave culture and PLUR on the surface seems super welcoming and all the songs are filled with Terence McKenna quotes about opening your consciousness or whatever, the genre itself is more or less stuck in the same tropes and most of the people seem to only be open to only to slight variations of the "psy" theme. Seems like everybody is trying to relive their own best rave experiences which means that of course the music has to be same in a way. But for me I get really tired mentally of the constant 4/4 blast with the every song having same effects, melodies, McKenna samples just rearranged in a slightly different way.

 

 

did I mention the guy at starbucks who liked all the 90s techno in his youth and I like I'm trying to legitimately be nice, told him about The Orb and he never heard them at the time. I also play DJ NATE IMA DOG IMA DOG and like he doesn't like it, but he can't even be like dignified about it he's like full on techno granpa mode 'wat is dis shit' even if I don't /love/ footwork I feel there's the same creative energy going on as old rave stuf. I can see why Paradinas wanted to promote it

 

 

Some sales / product promo guy asked about my Aphex Twin shirt and when I mentioned the name and music type he said he'd never heard of him but that he was into raves in Cali back in the 90s - he mentioned Waveform Records, a Bay Area label,  so he wasn't bullshitting but it was interesting how much of a bubble certain folks can get into scene wise by time and place and subgenre.

 

 

I think that's why it used to be a big deal game changer when some guy just went on a trip and bought vinyls and played them back home to their friends. Pretty sure that in many ways it still is - for some bands to start or genres to forment you do need that initial genesis moment which can be irrevocably gone up even if someone goes to the toilet for too long and doesn't comment to another rando at the party that "man this song would just sound so much better with more bpm and some cowbell on it" and doesn't end up finding the new drummer for his band or something. I sort of remember the times when just having some piece of equipment was a big deal in town as you just couldn't spin up some VST and make everything that you would ever want.

 

I imagine there's a lot of "lost" material out there and for every group that hit it big and got recorded, there's probably 10 of those who didn't and all they have is some crappy tape somewhere and then the bassist had to move out of town and now they all grew up to be squares, but when you listen to that tape with the right ears, there is a whole world in it - it just never got properly built.

[Ragnar]

 

I imagine there's a lot of "lost" material out there and for every group that hit it big and got recorded, there's probably 10 of those who didn't and all they have is some crappy tape somewhere and then the bassist had to move out of town and now they all grew up to be squares, but when you listen to that tape with the right ears, there is a whole world in it - it just never got properly built.

 

I should really listen to that DJ Guy's stuff on Bandcamp. It's a cool little time capsule, it's not full-on Aphex Twin weirdness but weird enough that I'm not sure what other kind of music existed like that at the time? It could even secretly be Aphex at times when he wanted to make some more toned-down halfway normal tracks, and is an alias for the more mundane material, who knows.

 

if some of the DJ Guy stuff is made in software and not in hardware, does "Hard DJ Guy" and "Soft DJ Guy" exist then

[TubularCorporation]

 

 

 

I imagine there's a lot of "lost" material out there and for every group that hit it big and got recorded, there's probably 10 of those who didn't and all they have is some crappy tape somewhere and then the bassist had to move out of town and now they all grew up to be squares, but when you listen to that tape with the right ears, there is a whole world in it - it just never got properly built.

 

 

 

I'd put the ratio at closer to 1000:1

[Ragnar]

dj guy fieri, there was a rumor he is soft dj guy too, some odd reference about slurping spaghetti or something

[thawkins]

 

 

 

 

I imagine there's a lot of "lost" material out there and for every group that hit it big and got recorded, there's probably 10 of those who didn't and all they have is some crappy tape somewhere and then the bassist had to move out of town and now they all grew up to be squares, but when you listen to that tape with the right ears, there is a whole world in it - it just never got properly built.

 

 

 

I'd put the ratio at closer to 1000:1

 

 

I have a bunch of friends/acquintances back home who have a weekly jamming session, they do a kind of stoner rock psych stuff but they record each rehearsal with a handheld recorder (at least they used to). I have listened to them a couple of times playing and at least once I heard them play an absolutely wonderful krautrock style jam (maybe I wasn't completely sober at the time, because I never found it in their recordings later on). But they never played live and pretty much never want to as well as I understood.

 

I guess in their case putting their music out is behind some psychological or motivational block and I never pushed it further than just saying that their stuff is good (and their work ethic seemed a lot better than ours). A lot of other promising bands or proto-bands also seemed to dissolve because at some point rehearsals devolved more and more into just hanging out and drinking. And in other cases making music did really not get past behind the phase of sitting at a pub and saying hey we should jam out some time.

 

Yeah I think the ratio could definitely be that high.

[Ragnar]

 

 

 

 

 

I imagine there's a lot of "lost" material out there and for every group that hit it big and got recorded, there's probably 10 of those who didn't and all they have is some crappy tape somewhere and then the bassist had to move out of town and now they all grew up to be squares, but when you listen to that tape with the right ears, there is a whole world in it - it just never got properly built.

 

 

 

I'd put the ratio at closer to 1000:1

 

 

I have a bunch of friends/acquintances back home who have a weekly jamming session, they do a kind of stoner rock psych stuff but they record each rehearsal with a handheld recorder (at least they used to). I have listened to them a couple of times playing and at least once I heard them play an absolutely wonderful krautrock style jam (maybe I wasn't completely sober at the time, because I never found it in their recordings later on). But they never played live and pretty much never want to as well as I understood.

 

I guess in their case putting their music out is behind some psychological or motivational block and I never pushed it further than just saying that their stuff is good (and their work ethic seemed a lot better than ours). A lot of other promising bands or proto-bands also seemed to dissolve because at some point rehearsals devolved more and more into just hanging out and drinking. And in other cases making music did really not get past behind the phase of sitting at a pub and saying hey we should jam out some time.

 

Yeah I think the ratio could definitely be that high.

 

 

btw a friend

 

https://prison-planet.bandcamp.com/

 

I think he's in denial about the band name tho

[thawkins]

 

 

btw a friend

 

https://prison-planet.bandcamp.com/

 

I think he's in denial about the band name tho

 

 

This sounds like Public Image Limited. Not one of my favorite bands but it has a certain soul which I like. Probably this sort of music is good at a live music concert for a more direct experience.

[Ragnar]

 

 

 

btw a friend

 

https://prison-planet.bandcamp.com/

 

I think he's in denial about the band name tho

 

 

This sounds like Public Image Limited. Not one of my favorite bands but it has a certain soul which I like. Probably this sort of music is good at a live music concert for a more direct experience.

 

 

maybe I should link the solo stuff, I thought I did

 

https://planetquestionmark.bandcamp.com/

 

supposedly he's using Max/MSP or the other one by this point. Not sure where it comes into play but cool to make the effort

[thawkins]

 

 

 

 

btw a friend

 

https://prison-planet.bandcamp.com/

 

I think he's in denial about the band name tho

 

 

This sounds like Public Image Limited. Not one of my favorite bands but it has a certain soul which I like. Probably this sort of music is good at a live music concert for a more direct experience.

 

 

maybe I should link the solo stuff, I thought I did

 

https://planetquestionmark.bandcamp.com/

 

supposedly he's using Max/MSP or the other one by this point. Not sure where it comes into play but cool to make the effort

 

 

Thanks, this was a nice listen. Pretty good if he made all that with Max/MSP because it sounds more traditional electronic instruments. Maybe he just sequenced it with Max?

[Ragnar]

 

 

 

 

 

btw a friend

 

https://prison-planet.bandcamp.com/

 

I think he's in denial about the band name tho

 

 

This sounds like Public Image Limited. Not one of my favorite bands but it has a certain soul which I like. Probably this sort of music is good at a live music concert for a more direct experience.

 

 

maybe I should link the solo stuff, I thought I did

 

https://planetquestionmark.bandcamp.com/

 

supposedly he's using Max/MSP or the other one by this point. Not sure where it comes into play but cool to make the effort

 

 

Thanks, this was a nice listen. Pretty good if he made all that with Max/MSP because it sounds more traditional electronic instruments. Maybe he just sequenced it with Max?

 

 

I can't get in touch with the guy so not sure