Guest Z_B_Z Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Z_B_Z: what is your take on the crowley/hubbard/parsons connection? i tried to find this jack parsons bio that i read to refresh my memory, but i must have lost it. from what i recall, parsons was renting this large home in los angeles that he would in turn rent out to various artists, eccentrics and bohemian types, and it was in this environment that he met hubbard. i guess they bonded over a shared interest in crowley, or the occult and decided to undertake that moonchild ritual you talked about. someone described it pretty well earlier in the thread. long story short, hubbard screws parsons out of some money and steals his woman. i find all the military connections highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 But Parsons was a rocket scientist with major tie to the MIC and Hubbard was in the navy, so therein lies some connection to the military.... I think I know what book you are speaking of and I need to read it but it is in storage right now.... 'Secret Agent 666' about Crowley is pretty interesting, but who knows how true it is... The fact that he had ties to British Intelligence is very evident for me after having read 'Moonchild'.... edit: at least according to wikipedia, you are correct about the ritual not taking place in England...I thought I read somewhere that it did....but took place at the Agape Lodge in California and this makes more sense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 well, i woudve said that the u.s. or british governments would shy away from percieved 'kooky' types but i just watched jon ronsons 'crazy rulers of the world' and now im not so sure.. also didnt the british love to hate on crowley? seems like the military wouldve stayed away from him for pr reasons alone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndspring1974 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 i recall 'the book of the law' as having some fascist overtones.. i could be wrong about that tho. its been a long time since ive read it. ive always wanted to read confessions.. anyone know if its anywhere on the internet? i know its out of print at the moment, or was the last time i checked... lol fascist? far from it. crowley is much closer to anarchism than fascism, though i wouldn't use either one to describe him. Yeah, not fascist, but there are some weird "might is right" passages. if someone is interested in crowley/ thelema etc. you really have to realize, that on the one side you have his bio (and he was a dirty old, drug-addict, shit-eater, sperm-drinker and all that) and it´s very easy to be offended by all this. but on the other side you have his works. and the basic stuff is very interesting. it´s about finding your "true will", and overcoming the ego that society created by ramming down your throat all it´s rules, values, conventions etc. you have to get rid of your socialisation to find your true inner self. Guy Rithie´s movie "Revolver" is a little bit about that (of course it´s not a crowley-movie, and you don´t have all the esoteric stuff). The astral-travelling enochian thing might sound cheesy and stupid, the invocation/ evocation, choronzon/ abyss stuff too. but most, if not all, these things don´t necessarily need to exist outside of the magicians brain - so it´s mostly about interesting psychological experiments. will that make sense to me if i haven't read the first parts of that series? i´d say yes. it explains a lot and is not as cryptic as other books he wrote. give it a try. http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/libers/lib_0004.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndspring1974 Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 and don´t let all these gruesome and absurd stories about "sacrificing children" fool you. "sacrificing a child" is simply a phrase for an ejaculation used in a magickal ritual. it´s really all about sperm and menstrual blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 well, i woudve said that the u.s. or british governments would shy away from percieved 'kooky' types but i just watched jon ronsons 'crazy rulers of the world' and now im not so sure.. also didnt the british love to hate on crowley? seems like the military wouldve stayed away from him for pr reasons alone.. Well, spies are never really out in the open.... And the bad press Crowley wanted and received would've helped in the denying of any military connections to Britain or any other countries by simply saying, "Why would we work with a known satanist and most likely, mentally unstable person?" Which he wasn't either imo. I think since he was actually a brilliant mind and if you notice, he looks different in almost every photo taken of him, he would be a perfect candidate for spying... The ties between secret societies and early intelligence agencies seems to me to be common knowledge now... But who knows? Crowley did look an awful lot like Churchill....perhaps he was a stand in at times? Speculation of course but the book 'Secret Agent 666' is pretty interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 meh, it all seems a bit far fetched. but i guess anythings possible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 There will most likely never be definitive answers, but 'Moonchild' is quite revealing and an amazing novel....it being staged as fiction makes me believe it more than anything he says in 'Confessions'. doublespeak, hide in plain sight ideas...anyone interested in him should read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 as far as i can recall the most scholarly discussion of the issue i read of crowley's involvement with the british gov during the war is in richard kaczynski's "perdurabo" (mind you i haven't read anything published in the last ten years or so). kaczynski's account indicates that basically crowley did serve the semi-official function of ratting out traitors to the allies working in the papers he wrote for when he moved to the states and i think this was even rather unofficial in the beginning, i.e., crowley just took it upon himself to do this. of course, crowley publicly exaggerated his role and i believe that much of the "scholarship" on the issue is enchanted by the exciting legend of ian flemming basing his books off crowley or some shit. more generally speaking i have observed a trend in people's appreciation of crowley's law of do what thou wilt, trend of people really downplaying and "new ageing" his work as it suites them which seems to be exemplified in some of the posts in this thread. i think Atop's comment [no offense dude, i got your back]to the effect that crowley's law is that a person should "find what they love most in life and living that love for the rest of their life...." inadequate to say the least. this cannot be reconciled with the book of the law's claim that "the slaves shall serve" unless one suggests that they do so because being a slave is "what they love most in life." i do not think the objection that they serve because they are missing the point is serious, especially considering that it is the "book of the law" and that "the law is for all;" clearly this is a facet of thelema. it seems quite obvious that crowley's system, while being a really fascinating and even genuine counter to the victorian morality of mores, was indeed infected with much of the time period's colonialist ideology at least. i mean, just take a look at his attitude toward black, "coolies," his easy and reckless appropriation of arabic poetry (which reveals no sense of respect for it outside of reverence for richard francis burton), the very fact that he could "translate" the tao teh ching without actually being able to read it in the original language, a crime he would never commit against his precious shelley, keats or swinburne (the latter of which he grossly plagiarizes, particularly in his "rites of elseusis"). i mean, the fact is he began his career as a millionaire victorian and much of his attitude and insight is deeply embedded in the victorian weltanshauung. but it needs to be said that he deserves real credit for trying to (and in many respects succeeding) in restoring the dignity of the occult arts from the precious vulgarity of the arts as practiced by yeats and co. basically, for treating occultism as a real art he made a serious impact in the world. not only this, but the curriculum he crafted is actually really excellent and puts the postmodern globalist style approach to shame. ultimately he was a pretty sweet badass, a genuine poet (although not as good as he thought), a real artist, etc; some one who lived a life that was an artwork as it were (i'm drunk and that sounds gay), just don't be a pussy about reading him you faggots. last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maantecaaa!!! Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Strange Angel is one of the biographies about Jack Parsons. I finished it a month ago. It's inferred that Hubbard is very calculating and manipulative, observing Parsons and what made his lodge successful. In addition to running off with Parson's girl, they also ran off with alot of his money that they were supposed to use for a boat rehabilitation/resale business. Parsons literally had to track him down across country to get part of his money back. I'd agree with the statement that a lot of this 'occult' business was really an excuse for debauchery(not that I have problem with that!). Also that a lot of it is meant to psychological propel your ego past it's societal conditioning towards your own ends. On a side note, the Church of Satan has a reasonably good list of recommended reading: Happy fun times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 ^^ totally reasonable post however, while the church of satan's reading list is fine it's nothing compared to crowley's list which is way more intelligent and organized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr_Nova Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Well shit, I quoted Do What Thou Wilt last night before going to bed, this thread's the first thing I see when I log into watmms, and my gmail inbox has just hit 666. If ever there were a time for my schizophrenic tendencies to kick in, now would be it. Thank you Crowley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I know I simplified the true meaning but that love could be applied to any facet of human direction/occupation/role in society... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Z_B_Z Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 the church of satan and anton lavey seemed to be more about deliberate button pushing and showmanship as opposed to crowleys genuine devotion mysticism (tho thats not to say crowley wasnt a showman that liked to push buttons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 however, while the church of satan's reading list is fine it's nothing compared to crowley's list which is way more intelligent and organized. A friend of mine has read his whole list....needless to say he is grateful for doing so I have read a few of the books, Jurgen being the last (which might not be on his list but the OTO's) and an amazing read it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 jurgen is awesome, Atop. how'd you like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 So much that I can't really put into words without reading the book twice more.... I have some other works by Cabell that I want to read but 'Jurgen' seems to have answers to questions I have had for years as well as ones I didn't know I needed answers to...not sure if he could top that one a friend once told me that he felt like it was novel for men and their point of view going through life's twists and turns.... Not sure if I agree with this.... It feels very universal in its surreal nature and probably tells a different story to each reader on an individual basis, be them male or female... A story with a life of its own most definitely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Well shit, I quoted Do What Thou Wilt last night before going to bed, this thread's the first thing I see when I log into watmms, and my gmail inbox has just hit 666. If ever there were a time for my schizophrenic tendencies to kick in, now would be it. Thank you Crowley. yea since i posted this i have had some weird synchronicities myself. on my way to work this morning i swear i saw this kid i used to hang out with. when the car turned off behind me, i could see it wasnt him but looked just like him. aside from the fact i havent seen this guy in years, i thought nothing of it. when i pulled into the parking lot at work i saw someone else who looked identical to him. i laughed to myself but the guy got out of his car at the same time as me and i was like holy shit its him! i started walking over to say hello when i realized it wasnt him at all in fact but looked almost exactly like him. so i sit down at my desk and within the hour my phone rings and its the guy i thought i saw twice calling from some strange number asking if i silll did design, he needed a website. i swear the last time this dude called me had to be around 2003 or 2004. wtf are the odds of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 23 to 0 so is Crowley the synchronicity catalyst? I thought R A Wilson was.... or Jung.... interesting stuff you guys, keep 'em coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 jung related topic om the board too. maybe its a coincidence they are there? maybe one spurred the other? chicken or egg? your phone is about to ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cult fiction Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I was given a copy of Moonchild, but his writing style is really obnoxious and I haven't been able to get through more than a dozen pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 "Looks like we have ourselves a reada.." bless you Bill Hicks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atop Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 No military connections? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._F._C._Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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