Terpentintollwut Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 So I've been pretty much blown away after playing Uncharted 2 over my friend's projector (Acer P1100) and I want to get one myself. He paid 350 bucks (Euro) for his. It's only got a resolution of 800x600 but it still looked great. There was one thing that bothered me though - the black areas weren't really black, they were dark-grey-ish. So scenes that had a lot of dark tones in them looked kind of flat and I could always see the edge of the projection even when there was an entirely "black" frame. But that was my only complaint. I though I should probably buy something with a resolution that is a little higher, considering the trends in filming and gaming. I came across this: http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/product/fpjhomecinema/vpl-bw7/overview Looks pretty solid I think ... ? 1280x800 px is well enough for me, actual 16:9 sounds good too, the ANSI Lumen is not to high either, which could solve the issue I have with the blacks ( ) and I read the contrast was alright despite the relatively low value Sony puts up for it. Price is about 500 Euro, I could just about afford it. Any projector/beamer-experts around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Those white Epson ones are the shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 Like this one? http://www.beamershop24.net/epson-beamer/epson-beamer_epson-eb-w7.html Price is about the same. Pro: Longer durability of the lamp (Sony was 3000 h, this one is 5000) and the (supposedly) better contrast (1000:1 vs 2000:1). Con: Epson is brighter, thus possibly resulting in more grey blackness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think with projectors you just want as much bright as you can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 That would only apply if I was going to use it in a brightly lit room like for presenting some power point crap, I think. I read the manufacturers tend to advertise with brightness but it's actually pretty pointless regarding home cinema. I plan to use it in a completely dark room only. Wow why am I having a Déja-Vù now, like I typed this before, some months ago or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think with projectors you just want as much bright as you can get Yes - the lumens need to be as high as you can afford (and this is the one factor above most others that determines a projector's price), as the brighter it is, the more accurate it will be able to render blacks and other colours in a room that is anything but pitch black. Really think about these factors when considering a projector: Am I going to watch TV, movies and games on it and use it as my primary television? (if so, consider bulb replacement cost, as some projector bulbs can get expensive and not last long [look at the bulb life rating]) Is the room I am going to have it in able to be darkened sufficiently? (again, higher lumens will allow you to put it in a room without having to resort to blackout curtains if it has any windows) Is the room I am going to put it in big enough? (how big of an area do you have to project on, and is the room ventilated enough to withstand the heat projectors produce) What am I projecting on? (are you going to buy a screen (also a factor in picture quality), or are you going to project against a wall (is the wall textured heavily, or painted anything but white or a light gray)? You can easily end up wasting money and not get a projector that suits your intended needs, so do some research on how projectors work and others' experiences before buying (you took the first step posting a thread here, but also read the home theatre enthusiast forums and sites). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think with projectors you just want as much bright as you can get Yes - the lumens need to be as high as you can afford (and this is the one factor above most others that determines a projector's price), as the brighter it is, the more accurate it will be able to render blacks and other colours in a room that is anything but pitch black. How do I need to understand "render blacks" ... ? From what I have read, professional home cinema people use no more than ANSI 800 in order NOT to get these grey blacks. That makes sense to me, which is why I was more excited about the relatively low ANSI value of the Sony model, which was about 1400. The Epson one has 2000. Of course, if it's 400 or something, the image will look like shit, even in a dark room. My room is ideal for the purpose I think - my wall is about 4 meters wide and near 3 meters high, white, no texture, and I can go back about 8 meters. When I used my friend's projector, it was the only light source in the room, and it looked great and well bright enough, except the black bits, which were too bright (his had ANSI 2000). And I'd mainly use it for gaming and watching films/series, probably not TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 I'm looking at some forums now, but I'd still like some more advatmm as they will probably tell me to spend ∞ $ See I rather want the thing on the right, not the thing on the left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spike Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 go back to your friends house and adjust the contrast and brightness on the projector, see if that satisfies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 i like how people start these question threads and then it turns out they knew everything about the subject all along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 I do that in real life a lot, too. I learn best while explaining something to somebody else. But, I don't know everything about projectors, it's just that what you and Joyrex have said is the opposite of what I've read, so I'd like to know what is right. I didn't find the Epson projector by myself and it looks pretty good, mainly because of the longer lamp life, so the thread was already worth it no? edit: go back to your friends house and adjust the contrast and brightness on the projector, see if that satisfies.... I don't think that will have any effect as the brightness will probably only adjust the input image and not the actual lamp brightness. The result of setting the brightness to the lowest level would then be getting a bigger portion of the projection to be grey, but not getting the grey spots black. I think. But I'm not entirely sure ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktait2 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 http://www.beamershop24.net/epson-beamer/epson-beamer_epson-eb-w7.html we lend these out to students at my university. so far they have been great for me but only after some sort of color calibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 I may have found the one: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Acer_H5360_home_theater_projector_review.htm native lumen is 2500, but: I preferred the movie mode for HDTV and most film based Blu-ray material, but utilized the 'dark cinema' mode for content with a low average picture level such as the Blu-ray of True Blood, Season 2. The 'dark cinema' mode lowered the black level of the H5360 and helped to maintain shadow detail at the expense of some top end brightness. Brightness in 'movie' and 'dark cinema' modes measured 974 lumens and 623 lumens respectively. it also supports 3D (I just read all about 3D and know that's a bit of a trick and that it will only work with a PC + appropriate graphics card, but it's not a must-have for me anyways) ebay and amazon sellers have it for amazingly low 499 dollars. so it's just as cheap as my friend's projector. only problem is, none of these sellers ship to places outside the US (the bastards) and German online stores charge over 550 EURO for the thing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spike Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 also, try projecting onto a black surface. I found the best contrast in this way for certain projectors. I used to work a/v so i had some funky try and error history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Mhhh ... I could spraypaint my wall if it does look better that way. It needs a new paint job anyways. I just realized that when buying from a US seller, I'd have to pay some import tax wouldn't I? Wonder if it'd still be less, considering the German price is about 1.5 times the US price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plstik Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Mhhh ... I could spraypaint my wall if it does look better that way. It needs a new paint job anyways. I just realized that when buying from a US seller, I'd have to pay some import tax wouldn't I? Wonder if it'd still be less, considering the German price is about 1.5 times the US price import taxes and shipping would be higher altogether I think. If your import is worth more than 150€ you have to pay around 30% taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirezzi Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I'd really like to own a projector, too. I was watching Antonioni's The Eclipse projected on a 10' x 15' wall the other day, from a SHITTY projector (RGB, standard def) and it still managed to feel spectacular to me. I'd take a hit in image quality just to get an image thrown that big for a film. It's such a great experience. Beats the shit out of 40-50" LCD or plasma setups IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 I'd really like to own a projector, too. I was watching Antonioni's The Eclipse projected on a 10' x 15' wall the other day, from a SHITTY projector (RGB, standard def) and it still managed to feel spectacular to me. I'd take a hit in image quality just to get an image thrown that big for a film. It's such a great experience. Beats the shit out of 40-50" LCD or plasma setups IMO. that's exactly my thought until about two days ago, cause I thought bigger rez projectors would be WAY more expensive. But the one I picked seems to be alright. It's not Full HD but I don't care, I was also very impressed by the sheer size of the projection with the SD one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Heya, I did buy a Full HD projector after all. Acer H7530 - it said it would also have that "dark cinema" mode that allows for a proper black tone, but it turns out that "mode" is just a preset for the color adjustment, so it doesn't do what I hoped. BUT it's proper 16:9 so there's no black/grey bars and it's not all that noticeable all together. I'm starting to think that what I wanted (full black) simply doesn't exist, as it would automatically mean not enough brightness for proper colors. I am immune to the infamous rainbow effect, I don't see it. The resolution is amazing, just the PS3 menu blew me away. ____ Now, the problem - I connected the projector via HDMI cable and set up the PS3 properly to 1080p. When I turned it on I noticed a flickering glitchy looking image that appeared two or three times, for about half a second, but I didn't think much of it. After that, it worked just fine for a while, I played the Killzone 3 demo and it looked great. Then I put on the music visualization as a test and watched it for a while - suddenly the glitchy image was back, and this time it stayed. It was a huge mass of "white noise snowstorm", only in color. Pretty much every single pixel had a completely different color than the one next to it, except in the lower portion of the frame there were some square-like masses of colored pixels. Just glitched, bad. Also the projector started doing a strange clicking noise. I quickly turned off my PS3, the projector went back to it's initial screen, stopped clicking. After re-boot of both, it worked again for maybe half an hour, then I got the picture yet another time, only for two or three seconds, during video playback. What the fuck ... ? I hope it is the HDMI cable. I borrowed it from a friend, but he said it was new. I bought another one today, gonna hook it up soon. I'm thinking the clicking noise could be the projector trying to go to a different resolution as the defected cable feeds it an impossible input format and generally glitched data ... ? sounds reasonable to me ... any other ideas? I'd hate to return the projector ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyrex Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Heya, I did buy a Full HD projector after all. Acer H7530 - it said it would also have that "dark cinema" mode that allows for a proper black tone, but it turns out that "mode" is just a preset for the color adjustment, so it doesn't do what I hoped. BUT it's proper 16:9 so there's no black/grey bars and it's not all that noticeable all together. I'm starting to think that what I wanted (full black) simply doesn't exist, as it would automatically mean not enough brightness for proper colors. I am immune to the infamous rainbow effect, I don't see it. The resolution is amazing, just the PS3 menu blew me away. ____ Now, the problem - I connected the projector via HDMI cable and set up the PS3 properly to 1080p. When I turned it on I noticed a flickering glitchy looking image that appeared two or three times, for about half a second, but I didn't think much of it. After that, it worked just fine for a while, I played the Killzone 3 demo and it looked great. Then I put on the music visualization as a test and watched it for a while - suddenly the glitchy image was back, and this time it stayed. It was a huge mass of "white noise snowstorm", only in color. Pretty much every single pixel had a completely different color than the one next to it, except in the lower portion of the frame there were some square-like masses of colored pixels. Just glitched, bad. Also the projector started doing a strange clicking noise. I quickly turned off my PS3, the projector went back to it's initial screen, stopped clicking. After re-boot of both, it worked again for maybe half an hour, then I got the picture yet another time, only for two or three seconds, during video playback. What the fuck ... ? I hope it is the HDMI cable. I borrowed it from a friend, but he said it was new. I bought another one today, gonna hook it up soon. I'm thinking the clicking noise could be the projector trying to go to a different resolution as the defected cable feeds it an impossible input format and generally glitched data ... ? sounds reasonable to me ... any other ideas? I'd hate to return the projector ... Sounds like you got a bad projector - that clicking sound might be the colour wheel out of balance... Do the messed up pixels show up on the default projector screens (like the boot up screen, menus, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 They haven't done that yet. When they do show up, it's always the entire picture that is messed up, not just a portion with the original source being still visible underneath. It looks pretty much like this over the entire wall: but with RGB equally distributed, no yellow tint, and those weird rectangular artifacts that can somehow be seen in between. The clicking noise was rhythmic, like one click every two seconds or so. It sounded just like the usual clicking noise my camcorder makes when I turn it on. I'd call Acer but they're charging 1 Euro per minute, which is obscene. It kinda sucks cause now, even when I do try the new cable and it looks fine, I still don't know whether there's something wrong with the projector that might show up again in the future ... I got my friend coming over Friday to finish Uncharted 2. I think I'm gonna see if I can get it to work but then bring it back to the shop to be safe. I'll still be within the 2 week bring-in warranty (and there's 2 years on the projector in general, luckily) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 277: 930-933 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think you've got a HDCP issue. Try reconnecting etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaen Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 i dont know shit but spend as much as you can possibly afford otherwise i doubt it will be worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Member Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Your projector is very bright, that's why you struggle with the blacks, the light "bleeds" onto the rest of the image. Make sure you've got projector the lamp set to eco mode, that should help some with the black level (and projector noise). I don't know wtf is up with the ps3 connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terpentintollwut Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I think you've got a HDCP issue. Try reconnecting etc. I don't understand - you mean I'm getting fucked up images because of some intentional copyright thing ... ? But then I wouldn't have been able to get an image before ... ? And the clicking? I've never heard of this HDCP and I don't fully grasp the wiki article i dont know shit but spend as much as you can possibly afford otherwise i doubt it will be worth it good projectors have become more affordable, I have spent 770 euro on it, which is pretty much as much as I can afford, and the projected image looks absolutely amazing, great color, sharpness etc. and it's full HD. Three years ago this would have cost 2000 at least. I think they're making room for the new hot shit that is 3D, like the price drop on DVD's. It's an awesome projector, if it wasn't for this issue (but that will be fixed, either it's a connection thing or I'm gonna get it returned) Your projector is very bright, that's why you struggle with the blacks, the light "bleeds" onto the rest of the image. Make sure you've got projector the lamp set to eco mode, that should help some with the black level (and projector noise). I don't know wtf is up with the ps3 connection. I set it to eco mode right away, mostly because it almost doubles the lamp life, and I noticed how it helped the blacks a little bit, just not quite enough to get rid of the "bleeding" entirely. It's not that bad, but it's not dark-dark. However, I doubt I would have been able to get a considerably less bright projector for an affordable price. I read professional projectors run at 800 ANSI Lumen in order to get these proper dark blacks. But pretty much all I've seen for sale were somewhere between 2000 and 2500 ANSI Lumen and were advertising with it (probably cause a lot of people like to use theirs in a brightly lit room during the day ... ) - A review I read at projectorcentral said it would go down to 600 ANSI Lumen once you use the 'dark cinema' mode. But apparently, the genius who wrote this just measured the resulting room brightness, not the lamp brightness, so yeah ... pretty stupid thing to do. A little disappointing regarding what I was expecting, but no drama. I played a bit of Dead Space and it was convincingly dark. I only see it as a little problematic with movies that are wider than 16:9, cause then the black bars might become noticeable. But there's always black duct tape ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.