pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 i think the issue you have is that you only listen to music on your own in your darkened, semen drenched bedroom, whereas other people can get stuck in and involved in a musical scene full of likeminded people. meeting up with your friends to mix some records together and basically just have a good time is pretty much the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sljiva Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I just don't see the need for CDs when the same files on a CD (sounds the same) will be streamed from a Cloud network to all media devices. Vinyl listening is something that can be manipulated and enjoyed in ways that can't be by a digital format. Analog and Digital will always have their differences it seems. There are lots of people uncomfortable with faceless nature of digital files that at the same time don't want to bother with vinyl, for numerous reasons. And FLACs have been around for quite some time now, yet if that pie chart is anything to go by CDs still hold up pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 what are you on about, reading from computer screens is fuckin horrible compared to paper. it makes my eyes sore as hell after about 30 minutes of constant reading. i dont know alot about the subject but i know for a fact my dads eyes deteriorated really badly from spending 6-8 hours a day working on a computer because his doctor told him so. anyway, im not even sure why im still confronting you on this point. vinyl is an enjoyable way to own music for me, and millions upon millions of other people. your opinion means pretty much nothing to me or them. killing animals for fur and leather is also an enjoyable way to use clothing, it's exactly the same with vinyl. it's just shitty old habbit that'll take time to shake off. chopping down trees to make tables and refining oil to make plastic bowls is pretty grim aswell man, when we could all just sit on the floor and eat out of bowls made out the smashed skulls of orphans. you are a joke. (not that i actually agree with leather and fur, but vinyl is not slaughtering any animals) almost everything we do is somehow detrimental towards the environment, but there are things and actions that can be replaced with less detrimental versions without losing almost any of the original effect. is that so incomprehensible to your acid drenched brain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 yes it is. and the main point there is that you seem to think that using digital doesnt lose any of the original effect. music is quite often about more than sample rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 the original effect is music, the other things are superficialities of the outdated music industry which you can easily live without with a bit of self-persuasion and the realization of the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 ah, bugger off. i hope a magnet falls on your harddrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 You keep saying its killing the environment, but if Vinyl was dead right now, would there really be any environmental improvement thats worth all your fuss? Thats why I brought up the impact of digital devices and how that train is gonna continue to increase with speed, especially with an economic recession, so corporations are taking short cuts on producing those materials by enslaving human beings and building more and more factories across seas. The digital revolution can't be celebrated as some kind of environmental revolution when it is just promoting more and more consumption across all mediums. (advertising) jesus, im not saying it's killing the environment, but comparing it to other means of achieving exactly the same thing. youre asking the wrong question again, it's not about whether it is as detrimental as oil refineries or whatever. anything is worth a "fuss", if all the vinyl buying/collecting people would start using flacs instead it would be beneficial for the environment, that's for sure. How beneficial though? Relative to spending more money on digital devices, which in turn supports slave labor and feeds corporate exploitation. You haven't provided anything concrete to justify calling vinyl enthusiasts hipster anti-environmentalists... at least you seem to have a problem with people who enjoy collecting vinyl... while have no problem with the structural ills that come with this digital wave. 356.5 carrots per nautical mile more beneficial..why does it matter how much, it would be more beneficial, or less detrimental, that's the point. i just don't understand..let's take you for example (and obviously there are many more like you) why would you spend more money on some additional device if you wanted to switch to digital ? you already have a computer, amp and speakers. so for you to start acting more environmentally friendly it would not cost anything, and that switch would not cause some latent environmental damage, do you realize that ? i provided an academic article that claims that buying digital instead of cds is about 65% less impactful on the environment(co2 emission wise) (as if it wasn't intuitive enough without an academic article). and it is very intuitive to assume that the figure is probably similar when talking about vinyl. We are so knee deep in this digital wave, that you justify your point by claiming I won't need to buy more digital stuff... Therefore you admit that digital devices are also bad for the environment. Basically you are applying your subjective appreciation for digital mediums as the right one, so even if one was able to rid themselves of this digital wave and only listen and pursue music through analog formats, they still would be causing more harm to the environment, despite not financially supporting corporations that enslave people and care little about the environment (hence why there are so many Western corporations in China). But because of the nature of digital files and how they are essentially thin air... all of this other stuff that has happened so you can enjoy this digital existence is irrelevant somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 ah, bugger off. i hope a magnet falls on your harddrive. and what then ? i'll need like 2 days to redownload it all back ? you're living in a past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redruth Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 the world is gone. conversations like this provide proof. we are mutants and the most disturbing thing about it is most of us don't even know the difference anymore. i am mutated and i know i am and i know why. i admit it and i am trying to reverse my mutations. i take responsibility for my actions. i will not pass my mutation, my sickness on to my children. the disease stops with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 you're living in a past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You keep saying its killing the environment, but if Vinyl was dead right now, would there really be any environmental improvement thats worth all your fuss? Thats why I brought up the impact of digital devices and how that train is gonna continue to increase with speed, especially with an economic recession, so corporations are taking short cuts on producing those materials by enslaving human beings and building more and more factories across seas. The digital revolution can't be celebrated as some kind of environmental revolution when it is just promoting more and more consumption across all mediums. (advertising) jesus, im not saying it's killing the environment, but comparing it to other means of achieving exactly the same thing. youre asking the wrong question again, it's not about whether it is as detrimental as oil refineries or whatever. anything is worth a "fuss", if all the vinyl buying/collecting people would start using flacs instead it would be beneficial for the environment, that's for sure. How beneficial though? Relative to spending more money on digital devices, which in turn supports slave labor and feeds corporate exploitation. You haven't provided anything concrete to justify calling vinyl enthusiasts hipster anti-environmentalists... at least you seem to have a problem with people who enjoy collecting vinyl... while have no problem with the structural ills that come with this digital wave. 356.5 carrots per nautical mile more beneficial..why does it matter how much, it would be more beneficial, or less detrimental, that's the point. i just don't understand..let's take you for example (and obviously there are many more like you) why would you spend more money on some additional device if you wanted to switch to digital ? you already have a computer, amp and speakers. so for you to start acting more environmentally friendly it would not cost anything, and that switch would not cause some latent environmental damage, do you realize that ? i provided an academic article that claims that buying digital instead of cds is about 65% less impactful on the environment(co2 emission wise) (as if it wasn't intuitive enough without an academic article). and it is very intuitive to assume that the figure is probably similar when talking about vinyl. We are so knee deep in this digital wave, that you justify your point by claiming I won't need to buy more digital stuff... Therefore you admit that digital devices are also bad for the environment. Basically you are applying your subjective appreciation for digital mediums as the right one, so even if one was able to rid themselves of this digital wave and only listen and pursue music through analog formats, they still would be causing more harm to the environment, despite not financially supporting corporations that enslave people and care little about the environment (hence why there are so many Western corporations in China). But because the nature of digital files and how they are essentially thin air... all of this other stuff that has happened so you can enjoy this digital existence is irrelevant somehow. man,drop the fucking corporations already. i don't justify anything, almost everything we do is somehow bad for the environment, i'm asking you a simple question: in your situation, having both turntable and a pc as a playback device, what method of consuming and playing music would be less detrimental towards the environment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 ah, bugger off. i hope a magnet falls on your harddrive. and what then ? i'll need like 2 days to redownload it all back ? you're living in a past. and you would be paying for all of it again aye? supporting the people who make the music you love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 i personally wouldnt be very happy having to spend 30,000 pound replacing a 15,000 tune collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 ah, bugger off. i hope a magnet falls on your harddrive. and what then ? i'll need like 2 days to redownload it all back ? you're living in a past. and you would be paying for all of it again aye? supporting the people who make the music you love? what does it have to do with it the topic? but if you're so interested..no i currently don't have enough income to pay for music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 You keep saying its killing the environment, but if Vinyl was dead right now, would there really be any environmental improvement thats worth all your fuss? Thats why I brought up the impact of digital devices and how that train is gonna continue to increase with speed, especially with an economic recession, so corporations are taking short cuts on producing those materials by enslaving human beings and building more and more factories across seas. The digital revolution can't be celebrated as some kind of environmental revolution when it is just promoting more and more consumption across all mediums. (advertising) jesus, im not saying it's killing the environment, but comparing it to other means of achieving exactly the same thing. youre asking the wrong question again, it's not about whether it is as detrimental as oil refineries or whatever. anything is worth a "fuss", if all the vinyl buying/collecting people would start using flacs instead it would be beneficial for the environment, that's for sure. How beneficial though? Relative to spending more money on digital devices, which in turn supports slave labor and feeds corporate exploitation. You haven't provided anything concrete to justify calling vinyl enthusiasts hipster anti-environmentalists... at least you seem to have a problem with people who enjoy collecting vinyl... while have no problem with the structural ills that come with this digital wave. 356.5 carrots per nautical mile more beneficial..why does it matter how much, it would be more beneficial, or less detrimental, that's the point. i just don't understand..let's take you for example (and obviously there are many more like you) why would you spend more money on some additional device if you wanted to switch to digital ? you already have a computer, amp and speakers. so for you to start acting more environmentally friendly it would not cost anything, and that switch would not cause some latent environmental damage, do you realize that ? i provided an academic article that claims that buying digital instead of cds is about 65% less impactful on the environment(co2 emission wise) (as if it wasn't intuitive enough without an academic article). and it is very intuitive to assume that the figure is probably similar when talking about vinyl. We are so knee deep in this digital wave, that you justify your point by claiming I won't need to buy more digital stuff... Therefore you admit that digital devices are also bad for the environment. Basically you are applying your subjective appreciation for digital mediums as the right one, so even if one was able to rid themselves of this digital wave and only listen and pursue music through analog formats, they still would be causing more harm to the environment, despite not financially supporting corporations that enslave people and care little about the environment (hence why there are so many Western corporations in China). But because the nature of digital files and how they are essentially thin air... all of this other stuff that has happened so you can enjoy this digital existence is irrelevant somehow. man,drop the fucking corporations already. i don't justify anything, almost everything we do is somehow bad for the environment, i'm asking you a simple question: in your situation, having both turntable and a pc as a playback device, what method of consuming and playing music would be less detrimental towards the environment ? LOL Well because I will always have a PC for other things other than music, the clear answer is PC because that entails having only one of two devices. However if I were to shed myself of computer devices and just have a room with a notebook, vinyl, and whatnot... so to never buy digital devices (phones, mp3 players, video games, accessories, etc) I would say I would be using my money towards mostly niche electronic labels... rather than $2,000 every 4 years or less going towards new computer devices which supports Chinese bullshit like I said a billion times. This thread is getting outta control lol... gonna have a smoke brb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 but you DO have a computer and yet you still chose the environmentally detrimental way to consume and listen to music, don't you see the problem with it ? the continuation of your narrative is just irrelevant, it's a different topic entirely. it's like if you had a recycling trashcan for plastic bottles or something but would still throw trash in the usual one, it's exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 i wonder if you would feel the same way if they ever find the technology to stop people stealing music. maybe you would like something tangible alot more if you werent able to just thieve anything you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 this whole thing is pointless anyway, eugene is one guy on the internet with an opinion, i dont think ive ever heard anyone in my life come up with anything as ridiculous as not printing vinyl because its a bit damaging for the enviroment, and the chart at the beginning of the thread pretty much proves that no-one else thinks it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 something else thats just occured to me, how does vinyl even damage the enviroment anyway? i mean obviously your refining oil to make plastic for it, but that must be like a billionth of all plastic use anyway, and its not like people buy it to go and throw in landfills. im pretty sure 99 percent of vinyl is sitting in collections or garages or storage units anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 i don't think it's ridiculous to step back and question the environmental impact of printing vinyl or cd when we have the option of going digital. i do, however, believe the conclusion that vinyl is more harmful to the environment is bs. i just don't think it's reasonable to isolate the process of downloading music from the greater picture of computer technology, the way this stuff is made, what is needed to provide internet to an ever expanding mass of the population, the materials needed to make this, how many bazillion people consume computer tech. etc. you don't just dig up a computer from the ground and download music from the atmosphere. i'd also like to point out that vinyl is HIGHLY recyclable as seen in the movie prometheus where even the smallest drop of liquid vinyl can turn a guy into a zmobie alien duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 but you DO have a computer and yet you still chose the environmentally detrimental way to consume and listen to music, don't you see the problem with it ? the continuation of your narrative is just irrelevant, it's a different topic entirely. it's like if you had a recycling trashcan for plastic bottles or something but would still throw trash in the usual one, it's exactly that. Right but don't pretend that our current projection following this digital wave is some moral change of character for our species. By the nature of something digital that can float and be transmitted through the air, of course that is less waste than something physical, however the processes involved for these digital realities are physical... Vinyl is expensive, I don't own a lot... probably own about 100-150 records. Which amounts to probably well over $2,000..... had vinyl not existed and downloading music was still as easy, I probably would have not spent that much money on music nor discovered appreciation for some music. That money would have gone into the system elsewhere and to processes that also hurt the environment. Very little would have changed in society because vinyl still makes up very little sales. But it provides something for people who love music and therefore encourages sales... therefore increasing the value of music. So in the end, I think you are focusing on this issue of environmental damage caused by vinyl waaay too much. Its affect on the environment in its current form is next to nothing while the digital reality in conjunction with our capitalistic society that you proclaim is nothing but progress affects the environment and human beings a lot more. Can't it be okay for there to be a small community of people who enjoy the physical aspect of listening music to continue supporting this, if it entails more promotion, money and appreciation towards music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 man, your tldr is really not interesting to me atm, my goal in this thread was very simple: to prove that using vynil when you have a pc is a shitty thing to do environmentally-wise, which i believe i did. now you do what you wish with that realization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcofribas Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 you have most definitely not accomplished that goal. sorry, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 you have most definitely not accomplished that goal. sorry, bro. ok then, those guys did though: http://download.intel.com/pressroom/pdf/CDsvsdownloadsrelease.pdf i do, however, believe the conclusion that vinyl is more harmful to the environment is bs. i just don't think it's reasonable to isolate the process of downloading music from the greater picture of computer technology, the way this stuff is made, what is needed to provide internet to an ever expanding mass of the population, the materials needed to make this, how many bazillion people consume computer tech. etc. you don't just dig up a computer from the ground and download music from the atmosphere. you're thinking about the issue in a very non practical way. we do what we can given what we have, we obviously all have computers than can play music quite environmentally-friendly, as been pointed in that article, choosing vinyl over digital given the state of things would be more detrimental towards environment, it's really that simple. what exactly do you disagree with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd syside Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 man, your tldr is really not interesting to me atm, my goal in this thread was very simple: to prove that using vynil when you have a pc is a shitty thing to do environmentally-wise, which i believe i did. now you do what you wish with that realization. Just think for a second about this picture... Thats my point. Where you see waste... I see art. You can look at digital files as more environmentally friendly, but more money is going to big corporations because of it, because only big corporations can produce the physical delivery systems to provide you with content (amazon, itunes, etc) vs a small independently owned vinyl pressing plant. The music industry is certainly in a state of shambles despite the finer air quality (lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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