Paulie Walnuts Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 yeah that's it - pretty much how most techno producers used to/still work with analog gear & h/w sequencers you'd have your 606's, 101's, MMT8's, R-8's, SQ-10's, etc... all full of loops, and all sync'ed together then it's just a matter of changing patterns, muting and unmuting parts, going on the faders, adjusting fx settings and EQ a lot of older record producers are all over the desk and rack gear when they're mastering on to DAT you'll automate a lot of course, but a lot of producers will ride faders on the master mix manually alongside - adjust delay feedback, compression curves, sweep the EQ, etc... it's all about creating a living, breathing mix, and drawing attention towards certain mix elements subtly a lot of techno would just look like 6 minutes of the same block looped over and over in something like Logic... but especially with the more minimal stuff, it's all about riding the desk and filter cut-offs, so you've got all these loops playing in parallel, and your job as a producer is to make it into some kind of journey, taking the listener's attention from one element to the next you can't ever program that kind of thing... you can program yourself doing it all live if you've got everything automated, but even then, the reason producers with SSL's and the like still like to ride faders manually is because you always get critical of spur of the moment decisions, and end up editing things in a way that's not really so relevant to the way someone'll be listening to the music (uncritically) that japanese dude on about programming pattern changes in an 808 - it's not hard, but i've never seen or heard of anyone doing that - with the 303 you just turn a dial and it'll cue up the next pattern for you and loop it until you tell it to loop something else... of course you're not going to automate filter sweeps on the thing, so you're going to be recording some kind of performance with it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 well that i agree with, analords were recorded "live" like that. so you're just saying afx didn't totally plan out and precisely automate the final mixdown? or are you saying he didn't automate the synthi 's filter cutoff tweaking :) maybe he has a bunch of robots he can automate old synths with :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnuts Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 well i think normally you don't really want 100 things all automated at once because your attention can only focus on one thing at a time anyway when you're listening all i'm really saying is that there's no quicker and more intuitive way to make music than hooking up a bunch of old analog synths and drum machines and the wierd thing is, unlike floops or reason, or even sx, where you can realistically make demo-ish music for years on end before you learn all the techniques and ways of thinking you need to get professional results, with a 303, 909, 101, mackie desk, quadraverb, it's just down to what notes you play in... they all sound good straight out of the box compair that to working with floops' or reasons' stock fx and synths, and you're ALWAYS trying to cover up or disguise the sound - and that takes much more work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoon Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 dude i'm with you on this 100%. that's why i'm strictly hardware. plus it's so much more inspiring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 死んでく Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 that japanese dude on about programming pattern changes in an 808 - it's not hard, but i've never seen or heard of anyone doing that - with the 303 you just turn a dial and it'll cue up the next pattern for you and loop it until you tell it to loop something else... of course you're not going to automate filter sweeps on the thing, so you're going to be recording some kind of performance with it anyway What experience have you got of using a 303 and 808? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 that japanese dude on about programming pattern changes in an 808 - it's not hard, but i've never seen or heard of anyone doing that - with the 303 you just turn a dial and it'll cue up the next pattern for you and loop it until you tell it to loop something else... of course you're not going to automate filter sweeps on the thing, so you're going to be recording some kind of performance with it anyway What experience have you got of using a 303 and 808? admittedly the 303 is difficult to program, until you get your head around it. you can either program it randomly (which a lot of people seem to like to do) or you can go (for example) the way of Chris Moss and actually get deep into it. once you've figured it out it's not actually that hard. in fact, in all honesty i'm finding programming my 202 much harder than my 303...i'm no expert on programming the 303 at all, but i'm trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awepittance Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Tr-808 Are probally the best "expensive" drum machine ever made. i think an 808 is worth every penny. just as a Tb-303 is... :ermm: buy a tr-606 before they go for crazy prices, they have the 808 Snare and the hi hats are nealry the same as is the kick... and there battry powered! being an analord like yourself have you ever played with the Jomox Xbase drum machine? Its one of the best fucking drum machines ive ever played with. Imagine a 909 & 808 clone in one box that has a lot more knobs to tweak the sounds. It does a dead-on 909 impression but the 808 sounds it is capable of don't sound exactly like an 808 but they are damn good. i just picked one up myself for $500 and am quite happy with it. If you want an 808 specific sound you should probably buy an 808 , but in general if you just want good live controls, midi in/out, and really nice bassy analog kicks & snares you can pay less than half an 808 and get a much better machine. well that i agree with, analords were recorded "live" like that. so you're just saying afx didn't totally plan out and precisely automate the final mixdown? or are you saying he didn't automate the synthi 's filter cutoff tweaking :) maybe he has a bunch of robots he can automate old synths with :> one thing for sure is that analord definitly experienced some digital post production. whether this was done on protools or with some sort of live digital fx box i am not sure but the analord series is spotted throughout with reversed/digital one shot effects drum hits. PS: i am doing a 180 into an analog/hardware-fag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Would you people be having this conversation before Analord came out? Doubt it!! I think Fenix Funk is live mixed with sampled loops. The loops being the 808 and the vocal bass sound. Probably stored in a sampler. You can here the 808 snare and hats do things that can't be done without sampling. Plus, they are triggered perfectly with the beat in a way that can't be programed. Like when the vocal part comes in and the snare gets brighter and double triggers exactly with that fenix vocal sound. The 909 live and the pads live. There is also some analog sequences in there I also think are loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Moss Acid Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 GB3 i just really relized somthing, when you said "being an analord like your self" made me just think even though i make music with mostly analorg equipment, i dont really think about it that much then i used to. that i actually am..using analog equipment! star-ange i had a great 2 hour acid set i threw apon logan five, today...over msn... i only taped 2 minutes of it lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 well, i think the 606 rules. it's got a very gritty sound. and i think part of why you want an analog drum machine like the 606 and 808 is that they are tons more organic htan a single sample, no hit sounds exactly the same or has exactly the same amount of amplification, running a 606 on a whole track never sounds repetitive even if it's the same beat. same thing about running mixes through analog hardware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 277: 930-933 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 well, i think the 606 rules. it's got a very gritty sound. and i think part of why you want an analog drum machine like the 606 and 808 is that they are tons more organic htan a single sample, no hit sounds exactly the same or has exactly the same amount of amplification, running a 606 on a whole track never sounds repetitive even if it's the same beat. same thing about running mixes through analog hardware Agreed. Also I've skipped throught this thread but nobody mentions then awesome sequencers the x0x drumboxes have? That's what sets them apart the most, instant tight grooves, very hard to get that groove just right on a pc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 well, i think the 606 rules. it's got a very gritty sound. and i think part of why you want an analog drum machine like the 606 and 808 is that they are tons more organic htan a single sample, no hit sounds exactly the same or has exactly the same amount of amplification, running a 606 on a whole track never sounds repetitive even if it's the same beat. same thing about running mixes through analog hardware Agreed. Also I've skipped throught this thread but nobody mentions then awesome sequencers the x0x drumboxes have? That's what sets them apart the most, instant tight grooves, very hard to get that groove just right on a pc. they do certainly have their own groove. i was helping out my girlfriend with her college assignment (to do a cover of a track using MIDI) and she decided to do Adamski's Killer. we tried sequencing the beats on the internal 909 sequencer, which were tight but had their own groove. when sequencing externally it sounded a lot tighter, so we stuck with external sequencing. when you're listening to a track trying to figure out if it's a real x0x you gotta listen out for so much - the timbre, the groove, and the capabilities, like for example you can't trigger a handclap and maraca on the 808 at the same time unless you either a) have your 808 MIDI retrofitted, or B) are using samples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Moss Acid Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 like for example you can't trigger a handclap and maraca on the 808 at the same time unless you either a) have your 808 MIDI retrofitted, or B) are using samples yah, or if you have a dely unit on a 707 you can play Bass drum A & B together (why would anyone want to do this?_ Snare Drum A&B Together (perfect for sanre rushes) Rim shots & cowbells together (why would anyone want to do this?) handclaps and tamborine together (why?) at the same time, if you set up the correct time of the delay, sounds gay though. also on the 606 you can infact use a closed hat and a open hat together to make a "ride" cymble. thats wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy cooooool! here is a quick song i did using this exact tecnique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 yeah one thing i love about the 707 is the way the different hits sound good on their own, but great when layered together. try clap + snare2 , rimshot works well with any hit, especially the first kick (found that out from a chris moss track), the ride and tambourine work good together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 like for example you can't trigger a handclap and maraca on the 808 at the same time unless you either a) have your 808 MIDI retrofitted, or B) are using samples yah, or if you have a dely unit on a 707 you can play Bass drum A & B together (why would anyone want to do this?_ Snare Drum A&B Together (perfect for sanre rushes) Rim shots & cowbells together (why would anyone want to do this?) handclaps and tamborine together (why?) at the same time, if you set up the correct time of the delay, sounds gay though. also on the 606 you can infact use a closed hat and a open hat together to make a "ride" cymble. thats wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy cooooool! here is a quick song i did using this exact tecnique i didn't know the 707 had multiple types of BD and SD etc...i thought it was just one kinda hit, that makes me want a 707 even more :D yeah i noticed the 606 clsd hihat + open hihat on the same step by accident, makes a cool sound :) definitely interested in the snarerush 707 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheEarlOfEastchurch Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 808's are going for tons now becuase their getting 'shout-outs' from rap peoples , B-on-say, kelis ive heard em both say 808 on their tunages on the wire-less new hardware just seems so weak, really throw-away trash old stuff is like com-u-ting round an analogue city. old stuff was created by mad - scientists were-as equipment today is made by BOC fans but the tunes are whats important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Moss Acid Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 yeah one thing i love about the 707 is the way the different hits sound good on their own, but great when layered together. try clap + snare2 , rimshot works well with any hit, especially the first kick (found that out from a chris moss track), the ride and tambourine work good together. indeed i loooove the 707.. here is an example of some really basic 707 acid thrash, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Moss Acid Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 definitely interested in the snarerush 707 :D oh really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 definitely interested in the snarerush 707 :D oh really? fucking awesome :D i want one but i need a desk first....and then a sampler, so it's gonna be like 3rd or 4th in the list of things to buy next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Moss Acid Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 oh well, the 707 was the first thing i got and probally my favourite drum machines most of the time.. getting a 101 next week. yes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscillik Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 oh well, the 707 was the first thing i got and probally my favourite drum machines most of the time.. getting a 101 next week. yes!!! that's why the 707 might be 3rd or 4th....i want a 101 too....the plan is to either 1)get my head around programming the 202 with the internal sequencer, and get a 101 for live noodling or 2) get the 202 Kenton modded, get a MIDI -> CV/Gate box, and trigger the 202 frommy Atari and have the 101 for live noodling the 202 keyboard is shit for noodling! the 606 was my first drum machine :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 oh well, the 707 was the first thing i got and probally my favourite drum machines most of the time.. getting a 101 next week. yes!!! thats awesome chris, im thinking about saving up for a 101 or like juno 106 or summat i got my 707 and 606 at the same time, i dunno which i like more, the 606 sounds great and is OMG ANALOG and all that, but the 707 is way more fun to program and play around with. so nice retro classic sounds as well, they're really smooth. its sounds definitely beat the shit out of the rest of the 80's sample players like linndrum and shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I can't understand the fascination with the TR-606, it's a very limited, very boring sounding drum machine that sounds very unlike the 808. Mine's boxed up under my bed and I just use samples of it occasionally. I guess it has a lot of mod potential though, but I could never work up the courage to take a soldering iron to it. Would gladly trade it for an 808 though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marf Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I just got my 606 modded. Its a really pretty mod. the 606 has wonderful hats. If you can't hear that and don't see how they can be so good for your music than I can't help you. Its about variety. Sure the 808 sounds great. I also love the linndrum. Better than the 707, but similar in sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I can't understand the fascination with the TR-606, it's a very limited, very boring sounding drum machine that sounds very unlike the 808. Mine's boxed up under my bed and I just use samples of it occasionally. I guess it has a lot of mod potential though, but I could never work up the courage to take a soldering iron to it. Would gladly trade it for an 808 though! compare the prices of the 808 and the 606 that's all i have to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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