monome norns / norns shield

[auxien]

so, sweepstakes, modey, whoever.

tell me about it. i'm dumb. like it? is it difficult? how's ORCA on it? how's other shit for it, can a doofus like me load stuff on it and modify scripts to my own liking?

 

[sweepstakes]

If you can code and you like varispeed tape/delay/sampling, you're going to have a blast with the softcut engine. SuperCollider is a good time too, although the way they integrate it can be a bit awkward - you'll want to start building stuff on a "real" computer first. I'm finding Lua very comfortable to code in, moreso every day. And it's a full Linux machine so you get all those goodies.

If you can't code, there's a huge variety of apps that you can just plug into and get going. Loopers, effects, synths, sequencers, you name it. And since all the apps are open source, if and when curiosity gets the best of you, you can go in and start tweaking. It's a thin line between code and synth parameters.

You'll get more mileage out of it if you have a monome grid and/or arc but you don't need those to have fun - I don't have either but I have the "crow" CV/i2c module.

If your curiosity is piqued at all, it's time to make a lines account :) https://llllllll.co

EDIT: TL;DR yes, it's fun, yes there's a learning curve, yes you can have a great time blowing off all the dev-y shit and just farting around with rando apps. ORCA is fun but not my cup of tea.

Edited November 14, 2020 by sweepstakes

[auxien]

i can't code but am very interested in the live sampling/playback stuff, as well as using the port of ORCA.

softcut and Timber are both integral and active at all times, correct?

i've never touched SC, but certainly not against digging in a bit if i like it.

i'm generally hesitant because of that necessity for a computer to do any real modifications: not interested in spending much time on the computer in order to use the device properly. if i choose occasionally do some deep dive modifications or setting up a set in ORCA, okay then cool but i just don't want to be forced to do that to get the basic functionality.

i've seen a fair few walkthroughs/demos of some of the apps you can load on and done a bit of reading for documentation and questions/answers on forums (llllllll obv the hub for much of this) and the more complete ones seem to offer full functionality on the norns itself. this is ideal, but i'm worried i'm gonna get a norns and then it turns out only 5 of these apps work fully and reliably on device, and then there's 20 that'll be janky and require regular updates or changes or would need extra functionality tacked on to allow me to use it with basic MIDI or without a grid or something...and then there's 100 others that are in early stage development that basically don't work. (was running into this similar situation with Max 4 Live's community of stuff)

.... andi'm sure not trying to shit on anyone doing development for free on this platform, but essentially i'm just not into that side of things at all and honestly doubt i'll ever be. just give me cool shit that works so i can make music with it in interesting ways   (...would even be willing to pay for stable apps on something like this, would gladly shell out 50 bucks for a robust and stable app on something like that... but spending days/weeks/months researching and learning and practicing coding on 3 different platforms with different languages and testing, just...that's not gonna happen man. that ain't me lol)

already dug in on the main norns threads on lines, had started an account a year or two ago when i was flirting with ORCA stuff. lots of knowledgeable people obviously, but they're half speaking a different language it feels like. but i've brushed up and mined what i felt i could over the last day on norns/norns shield/apps for norns.

"It's a thin line between code and synth parameters." yeah that worries me a little. it also piques my interest. i'm just afraid it'll be more code than synth parameters, ultimately....if it's not then that's great of course

so...beyond that, the 'rando apps', do you find that most you try are usable and stable? i've only looked into a half dozen of the 'main' ones everyone recommends. little information i'm seeing on smaller ones than just a forum thread announcing its existence...someone says cool! then 20 people report bugs, then one person says cool thanks so i don't really get any idea of what the fuck's happening with them beyond 'oh people are reporting bugs' and maybe a vague idea that it does something with delay. lol

Edited November 14, 2020 by auxien

[sweepstakes]

1 hour ago, auxien said:

i can't code but am very interested in the live sampling/playback stuff, as well as using the port of ORCA. so softcut and Timber are both integral and active at all times, correct?

Softcut is running at all times; in fact, I believe one entire of the four RasPi cores is dedicated to softcut. I'm not super familiar with Timber but I believe it's just an app or libary, so you can either use the app or integrate its libraries into your scripts.

1 hour ago, auxien said:

i'm generally hesitant because of that necessity for a computer to do any real modifications and such. not interested in spending much time on the computer in order to use the device properly. if i choose occasionally do some deep dive modifications or setting up a set in ORCA, okay then cool but i just don't want to be forced to do that to get the basic functionality.

You will need a computer to at least install apps. Once you've got some apps you like on there, you can totally unplug it and have a good time. Orca is quite usable without the computer.

1 hour ago, auxien said:

i'm worried i'm gonna get a norns and then it turns out only 5 of these apps work fully and reliably on device, and then there's 20 that'll be janky and require regular updates or changes or would need extra functionality tacked on to allow me to use it with basic MIDI or without a grid or something...and then there's 100 others that are in early stage development that basically don't work.

In my personal experience, one thing that's beautiful about this community is it's both very diverse and very active. It also skews toward more curious, technical people. If you throw an app up that doesn't look/feel like total dogshit, it's pretty much guaranteed that someone will give it a whirl, and if there are obvious bugs, they'll generally be surfaced pretty quickly. It sounds cheesy but the community really is part of the monome product, and there's good reason it's strong and loyal.

1 hour ago, auxien said:

just give me cool shit that works so i can make music with it in interesting ways  

Honestly the bang for buck miiiight not be there with an OG norns if you don't feel like getting your hands dirty with code, but I think the shield, is - easily. Thinking of it like a thing that can be a stompbox, a sequencer, a groovebox, or a synth, etc. depending on the app loaded, is probably the best way to think about it. I'd say it's weakest in the synth department but that has more to do with developers' interests, tastes, itches, etc. than any limitation of the platform (although the aforementioned SC awkwardness has some definite gotchas).

1 hour ago, auxien said:

(...would even be willing to pay for stable apps on something like this, would gladly shell out 50 bucks for a robust and stable app on something like that... but spending days/weeks/months researching and learning and practicing coding on 3 different platforms with different languages and testing, just...that's not gonna happen man. that ain't me lol)

I'm sure you can back yourself into some weird corners if you're really trying, or if you're just playing with a super fresh app, but stability ain't a thang in my experience with norns.

If you are super duper not into coding, that is totally OK, but I can't overstate that you will get way more out of it with just a smidge of code. I'm not talking about geeking hard, I'm talking about writing a little 20 line script. Also, there are folks on there whose first experience with code is norns, in fact I was just talking to one of them today on their Discord.

1 hour ago, auxien said:

lots of knowledgeable people obviously, but they're half speaking a different language it feels like.

There's definitely some idioms to learn. I get a bit disoriented at times whether someone is talking about a core language feature, a library, or an app. And it's all fluid, in motion, changing all the time. That's part of the fun, and you don't get that with most gear.

1 hour ago, auxien said:

"It's a thin line between code and synth parameters." yeah that worries me a little. it also piques my interest. i'm just afraid it'll be more code than synth parameters, ultimately.

That's the spirit :) It might be. It depends on what you want to do. You can be very incremental, not messing with any code, and still get decent mileage out of the apps. Don't fear the slippery slope!

1 hour ago, auxien said:

so...beyond that, the 'rando apps', do you find that most you try are usable and stable? i've only looked into a half dozen of the 'main' ones everyone recommends. little information i'm seeing on smaller ones than just a forum thread announcing its existence...someone says cool! then 20 people report bugs, then one person says cool thanks so i don't really get any idea of what the fuck's happening with them beyond 'oh people are reporting bugs' and maybe a vague idea that it does something with delay. lol

Ha, it totally depends on the app. I know what you mean, though. I personally have not had issues with stability.

Some of the apps I liked so far:

- Greyhole - dope reverb, I used it on this: https://weeklybeats.com/license/music/2020-02-22
- NISP - tracker + LISP interpreter, kind of nuts
- Compass - cool minimalist sequencer with some really weird features

Also, I worked on these, so I'll take the opportunity to plug:

- Yggdrasil - cyberdeck tracker which I don't even completely understand yet
- Dronecaster - drone engines (synths) plus line input recorder so you can process the drones with external FX and record them
- Dial - BPM-synced CV clock and modulation source that reconciles sequence phase with milliseconds for rock-solid timing
- Angler - clocked random arpeggiator/sequencer with incrementally morphing chord

Edited November 14, 2020 by sweepstakes

[modey]

I think sweepstakes said it better than I could.

I actually haven't been using mine much at all since I built it and had an initial burst of inspiration with it. That said though, I'm working on a teensy-based grid clone so once that's done I'll probably be pretty keen to get back into norns development.

Speaking of, Lua's really not that hard to get started with at all. The tutorials on the monome site are great; I was up and running with the beginnings of my little nanoloop clone in a couple of hours. Even if you don't think you'll make anything for it, it's still worth checking out the tutorials. From there, it's nice having that base knowledge for any time you might have a "what if I had a thing that could do this?" situation. Plus, getting something right in code, at least for me, provides a unique kind of rush (adaptation, backwardness etc) that I haven't experienced with anything else.

As for Orca, I found it wasn't really great compared to the desktop version. It may have changed since I last tried it, late last year/early this year, but it just seemed incomplete. For me it's better on a screen where you can see a lot more.

 

[auxien]

2 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

Softcut is running at all times; in fact, I believe one entire of the four RasPi cores is dedicated to softcut. I'm not super familiar with Timber but I believe it's just an app or libary, so you can either use the app or integrate its libraries into your scripts.

You will need a computer to at least install apps. Once you've got some apps you like on there, you can totally unplug it and have a good time. Orca is quite usable without the computer.

In my personal experience, one thing that's beautiful about this community is it's both very diverse and very active. It also skews toward more curious, technical people. If you throw an app up that doesn't look/feel like total dogshit, it's pretty much guaranteed that someone will give it a whirl, and if there are obvious bugs, they'll generally be surfaced pretty quickly. It sounds cheesy but the community really is part of the monome product, and there's good reason it's strong and loyal.

Honestly the bang for buck miiiight not be there with an OG norns if you don't feel like getting your hands dirty with code, but I think the shield, is - easily. Thinking of it like a thing that can be a stompbox, a sequencer, a groovebox, or a synth, etc. depending on the app loaded, is probably the best way to think about it. I'd say it's weakest in the synth department but that has more to do with developers' interests, tastes, itches, etc. than any limitation of the platform (although the aforementioned SC awkwardness has some definite gotchas).

I'm sure you can back yourself into some weird corners if you're really trying, or if you're just playing with a super fresh app, but stability ain't a thang in my experience with norns.

If you are super duper not into coding, that is totally OK, but I can't overstate that you will get way more out of it with just a smidge of code. I'm not talking about geeking hard, I'm talking about writing a little 20 line script. Also, there are folks on there whose first experience with code is norns, in fact I was just talking to one of them today on their Discord.

There's definitely some idioms to learn. I get a bit disoriented at times whether someone is talking about a core language feature, a library, or an app. And it's all fluid, in motion, changing all the time. That's part of the fun, and you don't get that with most gear.

That's the spirit It might be. It depends on what you want to do. You can be very incremental, not messing with any code, and still get decent mileage out of the apps. Don't fear the slippery slope!

Ha, it totally depends on the app. I know what you mean, though. I personally have not had issues with stability.

Some of the apps I liked so far:

- Greyhole - dope reverb, I used it on this: https://weeklybeats.com/license/music/2020-02-22
- NISP - tracker + LISP interpreter, kind of nuts
- Compass - cool minimalist sequencer with some really weird features

Also, I worked on these, so I'll take the opportunity to plug:

- Yggdrasil - cyberdeck tracker which I don't even completely understand yet
- Dronecaster - drone engines (synths) plus line input recorder so you can process the drones with external FX and record them
- Dial - BPM-synced CV clock and modulation source that reconciles sequence phase with milliseconds for rock-solid timing
- Angler - clocked random arpeggiator/sequencer with incrementally morphing chord

re: softcut/timber...okay so i'm starting to get a little better handle on things the way you're explaining it there. 

okay, yeah i mean loading in a few apps once every few weeks or something isn't a problem of course. plus the norns has wifi so it's not like it has to be physically connected either.

re: community... definitely seeing that. i guess i just worry that it's a community based around development/coding, not around music-making. which even if so would benefit me as i could mooch all the good stuff created lol...but still, that sorta thing gives me slight pause, but i 100% see the friendliness and openness within the community as a good thing in general, don't think i'm downing it as a whole.

re: shield... definitely planning on the shield. i mean the full original looks lovely and all but not sure i could justify it with something i might not gel with. can always trade up later if i love the platform, of course. and the stompbox/etc sorta approach is exactly what's got me really interested in it. been wanting a more straightforward looper pedal but i'm also wondering if it's going to be too middle of the road if i do that. this popped up as a 'well, can probably do some straightforward looping, some more interesting looping, oh and plus 700 other things'  sure seems the SC aspect of the device gets a little breezed over in much of the documentation and what i'm seeing from the coders. idk tho, they may just not be mentioning it specifically in what i'm reading.

good to hear the stability is generally very good in your experience! that's what i kind of thought, but not seen it stated too often.

re: coding...it's not that i don't want to do ANY ever at all. it's just that i'm more worried people saying 'oh you can just do a little' will lead down a rabbithole and turn into a huge ordeal just trying to tweak the range of a filter cutoff or something. if i do get one of these i'm sure i'll end up doing a little playing with coding, just sorta trying to gauge the reality of how much value i can get out of truly just a little coding without really delving deep into it.

i am fearful of the slippery slope tbh. but, i know to watch myself on it i guess.

this track you did with greyhole is really rich sounding in fact. the reverb(/s?) sounds all at once realistic and totally fake and digital, and shifts between them seamlessly. very interesting stuff. track's grooving too man  i saw a video or two with compass and with NISP, wasn't sure what was happening with either tbh (NISP looked like a fairly standard tracker but i'm not terribly familiar with trackers anyway) but wasn't 100% watching, i remember the music was sounding good though and obv the sequencing was doing some cool stuff. 

oh i saw something cool with Yggdrasil! definitely seemed a bit out there but that's exactly the sort of thing i find so interesting about the norns. saw dronecaster mentioned but haven't looked into, don't think i've noticed the others but will definitely look up some stuff for Angler, sounds right up my alley.

1 hour ago, modey said:

I think sweepstakes said it better than I could.

I actually haven't been using mine much at all since I built it and had an initial burst of inspiration with it. That said though, I'm working on a teensy-based grid clone so once that's done I'll probably be pretty keen to get back into norns development.

Speaking of, Lua's really not that hard to get started with at all. The tutorials on the monome site are great; I was up and running with the beginnings of my little nanoloop clone in a couple of hours. Even if you don't think you'll make anything for it, it's still worth checking out the tutorials. From there, it's nice having that base knowledge for any time you might have a "what if I had a thing that could do this?" situation. Plus, getting something right in code, at least for me, provides a unique kind of rush (adaptation, backwardness etc) that I haven't experienced with anything else.

As for Orca, I found it wasn't really great compared to the desktop version. It may have changed since I last tried it, late last year/early this year, but it just seemed incomplete. For me it's better on a screen where you can see a lot more.

yeah, sweepstakes really is helping a lot with his thorough job selling me on the platform right now.

oh, you were coding stuff for the norns too? cool cool

haven't looked at the Lua tutorials or in general what kind of coding language it is. i'll be able to at least handle the basics i'm sure, may look at those on the monome site before i pull the trigger on getting a norns just to get an idea tho. haha i do like a good rush of figuring a thing out, who knows if my brain will work when the code gets into the more complex aspects...

re: ORCA, yeah? i'm not too surprised, the stuff i've seen in videos for norns has been relatively tame compared to the craziness people are doing with the full desktop version of it. 

----

sincere thanks to both of you taking the time to answer my questions and relate some of your experiences with it. putting me in a much better place to consider if i wanna dive in with it.

would of course love to hear others' opinions if anyone else here is using it, or any resources for explaining it to newbies

i'll mention too i came across this post that seemed to help cement some of the structure of it in my head, along with sweepstakes' comments above...  starting to get a much better handle on what it can and can't do and what to expect. 

 

[sweepstakes]

Thanks for the kind words on that track :) There's some Thyme in there too, and I can't remember which is which but I think it's mostly the greyhole with that hyper-real sound.

re: community chat - there's probably roughly the same amount of discussion about code, as modular (not just eurorack but Buchla, Serge, Ciat-Lonbarde, etc.), as culture in general,  as music technique (not just electronic), as music releases. On average it's a bit higher brow compared to other music tech forums, and the discussions have a lot of variety, breadth and insight. It is definitely not just a bunch of devs geeking out over arcane code shit. Lots of fairly well-known folks hanging out there too like Andrew Huang, Meng Qi, Scanner, etc. The mods make an effort to keep things on the rails and to maintain inclusiveness.

re: shield - definitely the way to go. I find the norns very beautiful so I couldn't resist. I don't regret it, but if I ever feel the need for a second, it'll be a shield.

SC definitely gets breezed over. I think the implication is that if you want to learn more there, there's scsynth.org as well as folks like Fredrik Oloffson. SC's been around for a while, so no need to reinvent the wheel in terms of docs. Also, major monome contributor and lines user zebra, himself, seems to be very competent in SC (I've learned - and forgotten - some tricks from him), as well as many other things technical and musical.

re: coding - seriously don't fear it. You won't grow antlers or go nearsighted, I promise :) I will warn you that there are 2 parts of the core API I'm aware of that are imo a little more complex than I think they need to be: setting up softcut and writing text/graphics to the screen. But this is the kind of thing where you write it once, get your head around it, and then just copy the code as needed. Or just use a library - see Supercut for softcut. I'm happy to share code too if you need help.

re: Yggdrasil and Dronecaster - these were both featured on CDM recently and I was kind of shocked to see stuff I worked on get a little internet fame. The main guy Tyler on those two projects is a bottomless pool of energy in addition to being a sweetheart, and he just has a knack for making fun, cool stuff. It's been fun working with him.

re: Angler and Dial - derp, I forgot these were crow-only apps, not norns apps. Let me know what you think of them if you get a crow though :) I am working on a norns app right now, though. I'll keep you posted.

Happy to chat about this stuff!! I got really enthused about it about a year ago, dropped off for a bit I guess to learn SC a bit better by itself, and now I'm really getting back into it. I credit Tyler with really getting me back into it, actually. I still feel like there are some major gaps in the app ecosystem and it is still waiting for its killer app - that's where more people with cool ideas come in, the technical skills can always be learnt :) But it is a great platform that's in a healthy spot and I think it's absolutely worth your time.

[auxien]

14 hours ago, sweepstakes said:

Thanks for the kind words on that track There's some Thyme in there too, and I can't remember which is which but I think it's mostly the greyhole with that hyper-real sound.

re: community chat - there's probably roughly the same amount of discussion about code, as modular (not just eurorack but Buchla, Serge, Ciat-Lonbarde, etc.), as culture in general,  as music technique (not just electronic), as music releases. On average it's a bit higher brow compared to other music tech forums, and the discussions have a lot of variety, breadth and insight. It is definitely not just a bunch of devs geeking out over arcane code shit. Lots of fairly well-known folks hanging out there too like Andrew Huang, Meng Qi, Scanner, etc. The mods make an effort to keep things on the rails and to maintain inclusiveness.

re: shield - definitely the way to go. I find the norns very beautiful so I couldn't resist. I don't regret it, but if I ever feel the need for a second, it'll be a shield.

SC definitely gets breezed over. I think the implication is that if you want to learn more there, there's scsynth.org as well as folks like Fredrik Oloffson. SC's been around for a while, so no need to reinvent the wheel in terms of docs. Also, major monome contributor and lines user zebra, himself, seems to be very competent in SC (I've learned - and forgotten - some tricks from him), as well as many other things technical and musical.

re: coding - seriously don't fear it. You won't grow antlers or go nearsighted, I promise I will warn you that there are 2 parts of the core API I'm aware of that are imo a little more complex than I think they need to be: setting up softcut and writing text/graphics to the screen. But this is the kind of thing where you write it once, get your head around it, and then just copy the code as needed. Or just use a library - see Supercut for softcut. I'm happy to share code too if you need help.

re: Yggdrasil and Dronecaster - these were both featured on CDM recently and I was kind of shocked to see stuff I worked on get a little internet fame. The main guy Tyler on those two projects is a bottomless pool of energy in addition to being a sweetheart, and he just has a knack for making fun, cool stuff. It's been fun working with him.

re: Angler and Dial - derp, I forgot these were crow-only apps, not norns apps. Let me know what you think of them if you get a crow though I am working on a norns app right now, though. I'll keep you posted.

Happy to chat about this stuff!! I got really enthused about it about a year ago, dropped off for a bit I guess to learn SC a bit better by itself, and now I'm really getting back into it. I credit Tyler with really getting me back into it, actually. I still feel like there are some major gaps in the app ecosystem and it is still waiting for its killer app - that's where more people with cool ideas come in, the technical skills can always be learnt But it is a great platform that's in a healthy spot and I think it's absolutely worth your time.

for sure man, would be interested in hearing more of your stuff, is it mostly at weekly beats or do you have some elsewhere?

yeah the factory norns looks gorgeous, wish they were still doing the black versions too, couple pictures i saw looked good. but the shield has its own DIY quirkiness that works well 

idk man, antlers might be pretty cool  ...yeah...sure i'll be looking for libraries and bits of code already out there first no doubt. will keep in mind to hit you up to steal bits from if necessary tho, thanks

oh nice, i check CDM here and there, haven't caught that one yet, will look. people like that who are always pushing and also sharing are really are few and far between.

ha, may end up dipping my toe in some semi-modular stuff down the way, seems that's a pretty big portion of the monome userbase right now. definitely curious to hear more about the stuff you're working on tho any time you feel like sharing.

yeah that's part of what's strange about it to me...it sorta feels like the norns is set up to be an 'almost-anything' device that should be pretty popular and useful for almost any electronic-leaning musician...but i've rarely seen/heard of it being used by anyone. that discrepancy seems to be tied to the learning curve for entry...and i don't even mean to use or to develop for the device, i'm talking just to even understand what the hell it is. despite the ideals that it be all-inclusive and open, there's a fair amount of digging necessary to even begin to understand what's going on, and that undoubtedly ends up presenting some significant friction for many who may just be curious. i'm no genius but i'm sure not a total dingbat either, and if it took me hours of researching various places to truly understand what this all is, that's a serious problem imo. but all that aside, it does look to be a really unique platform and i'm curious to watch it grow either way...may jump in a buy one this week even. we'll see

[sweepstakes]

Hey thanks man! Yeah lately I'm just posting WB stuff this year. It is wildly inconsistent in terms of quality, genre, approach, lol: https://weeklybeats.com/license I have never bothered to collate my stuff into a release, but I might be more motivated once WB (and 2020, fucking hell) is over and the increasingly chore-like weekly deadline is gone.

That black norns is gorgeous. I love the silver tho - silver is just my color :)

Semi modular is a great way to go, and there are lots of good options now. I intended to start there this year (with 0-Coast and 0-Ctrl) and I ended up getting impatient w/ the supply chain that COVID borked and just took the plunge with a rack. I do wish I would have been a bit more patient and stuck it out with that, but eurorack is cool and is definitely making me look at synths differently.

Your "almost-anything" description is apt and I think it applies to most of monome's product line. It's one of those things you either get or you don't, not in an elitist or exclusive way - it's just a matter of whether a tabula rasa appeals to you. There's definitely a couple barriers that prevent it from being more popular, in addition to the lack of definition that you identified: the seemingly high cost of the OG norns on the one hand, and the technical know-how of setting up the shield on the other. I think when (and if) the "killer app" arrives, the community will expand; though, arguably, Cheat Codes is it, and I guess Orca could be too. But I think there may be more norns users than it seems - for example, one of the musicians touring with Bon Iver was using one. There might just be a lot of folks that don't post YouTube/IG videos or hang out on lines that are happily jamming with other folks' norns apps. But all that said, sustainable business at a human scale seems to be a core tenet of the monome philosophy, and as far as I can tell they are satisfied with the current pace of production/consumption. I have to say I prefer this quiet, small, earnest approach to mass production, cutting manufacturing corners, and flooding feeds with cheesy promotional videos!

[sweepstakes]

lol. So someone figured out how to make their norns publicly controlled over the internet and is now streaming it all on twitch:

 

[auxien]

^haha, actually caught about 10 minutes of that last night but then forgot to reply, kinda crazy. if someone wrote a more specific program exactly for that sorta use it could get pretty crazy i imagine...or you could have 2-4 of them all hooked up and people could remotely play them together/against each other...

i was definitely feeling the same as you by the end of Weekly Beats when i did it back in 2018...i'm pretty sure i missed most of the last month or two. a full year of it was just too much. maybe 6 month increments would be cooler.

i generally think modular is hype over substance, but i'm also considering it for similar reasons of forcing me to approach thing differently. i'm getting a little stuck with some of the synths i've been using for years now and trying to expand my sound palette/skills so, that seems like a logical step...

...much like the norns, which i just got one of btw  found a guy selling some new pre-assembled shields on Reverb for a solid price, so grabbed one and just started playing with it last night. the interface is weird af. would be 20 times better if it was just...twice as big. with like 4 more knobs/buttons or something. but i'm getting my head around it playing with a few apps and will be digging in more over the coming weeks i'm sure  thanks for selling me on one lol

[sweepstakes]

That was my thought, too - someone needs to make a "norns battle" app that does something weird or obvious on every button press or knob turn.

[sweepstakes]

Hit submit too fast, lol.

Being forced to think differently is it with modular, really. Unless you have like $20k worth of rack you have to patch creatively, and working with that limitation is fun and educational. Also lately I'm into weird feedback paths, which modular is great at, both because of routing flexibility and the infinite parameter resolution.

Glad it worked out with the norns, nice find!

[sweepstakes]

Tyler and I just released this yesterday. I did the sound and he did literally everything else.

Not a tool, not even really a toy, just kind of a generative audiovisual art app. This platform is nice for making stuff like this.

[d-a-m-o]

I'm fascinated by this thing, always loved Monome devices but since I can't code guess this is not for me (But I'm pretty tempted to get a grid and arc now that I started learning Max/Msp)

[modey]

The tutorials on the site are great, they start from the very beginning and get into a lot of useful functionality. Lua is a very easy language to pick up as well.

Funnily, I just started dipping into Max again and am finding that it's way more fiddly than just writing some code. I'm finding it really hard to get around the order of operations, and having to explicitly wire up things that I could fairly easily write with a few lines of multipurpose code. That said, I'm still pretty new to it, and have spent almost the past year using text based code so maybe I just need to think a bit differently..

[e-mertz]

Hey all, I'm in the market for an affordable hardware granular synth and wonder how well norns shield does fit the bill?

I saw that there are already existing granular engines, but it looked like they all required mononome arc or grid. I'm looking more for something that can be played with keyboard. +1 if it has portamento/glide.