Guest yan_g Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 if you can't make music that sounds good by simply hearing it, give up music. if you can't improvise singing on whatever music, i don't think it's worth giving music a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 if you can't make music that sounds good by simply hearing it, give up music. if you can't improvise singing on whatever music, i don't think it's worth giving music a try. and this is why you don't ask questions like this on a forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yan_g Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 if you can't make music that sounds good by simply hearing it, give up music. if you can't improvise singing on whatever music, i don't think it's worth giving music a try. and this is why you don't ask questions like this on a forum well if there's a question that can be answered here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 if you can't make music that sounds good by simply hearing it, give up music. if you can't improvise singing on whatever music, i don't think it's worth giving music a try. just like if you cant play chopin and rachmaninoff perfectly just by picking up an instrument and trying a bit, you should immediately put the instrument down and never try again yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yan_g Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 if you can't make music that sounds good by simply hearing it, give up music. if you can't improvise singing on whatever music, i don't think it's worth giving music a try. just like if you cant play chopin and rachmaninoff perfectly just by picking up an instrument and trying a bit, you should immediately put the instrument down and never try again yeah? imrpovising a stupid tune that doesn't sound out of key on an piece of music is much easier than playing awfully whatever work by chopin. there is actually no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 yes there is, everyone learns music differently, i know for sure i couldnt "improvise" or barely distinguish between notes when i started out. besides, youre not allowed to voice your opinion because your music sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yan_g Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcock Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 if you can't make music that sounds good by simply hearing it, give up music. if you can't improvise singing on whatever music, i don't think it's worth giving music a try. just like if you cant play chopin and rachmaninoff perfectly just by picking up an instrument and trying a bit, you should immediately put the instrument down and never try again yeah? imrpovising a stupid tune that doesn't sound out of key on an piece of music is much easier than playing awfully whatever work by chopin. there is actually no comparison. composition is a specific skill which can be learned, and anyone with half a brain and the determination to learn can get very good at composition with the right tuition. if someone cant write a chord sequence with a melody they dont need to stop trying to compose, they need to go get some skillz and information, either off a teacher or off written sheets of lessons, and learn and practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yan_g Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 composition is a specific skill which can be learned, and anyone with half a brain and the determination to learn can get very good at composition with the right tuition. if someone cant write a chord sequence with a melody they dont need to stop trying to compose, they need to go get some skillz and information, either off a teacher or off written sheets of lessons, and learn and practice. i'm afraid you don't know what music is all about. if you can't write a chord sequence that fits with a melody, you're not a musician. period. you don't need lessons to do that, i'm sorry. of course you can improve your skills and learn techniques but you need a little something to start with, something that is not explained in the books (nor in teh internets). your post sounds like the intro of a composing lessons book for deaf people, it has no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TEXX Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 i'm afraid you don't know what music is all about. if you can't write a chord sequence that fits with a melody, you're not a musician. period. you don't need lessons to do that, i'm sorry. of course you can improve your skills and learn techniques but you need a little something to start with, something that is not explained in the books (nor in teh internets). your post sounds like the intro of a composing lessons book for deaf people, it has no point. That's a bit mean. What if he is deaf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten fingers ten toes Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I think yan g is just saying (in a rather arrogant way), if you really want to make music for an audience of people to enjoy and be excited about, you are going to have to have some natural intuition for creating music. In the same way that I have absolutely no inclination for visual arts and have a relly dodgy sense of perspective when creating it, I could be laborously trained to produce some reasonable sketches or paintings. I would never become a great artist however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 if you can't write a chord sequence that fits with a melody, you're not a musician. period. you don't need lessons to do that, i'm sorry. thats a very western-centric view of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TEXX Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I think yan g is just saying (in a rather arrogant way), if you really want to make music for an audience of people to enjoy and be excited about, you are going to have to have some natural intuition for creating music. In the same way that I have absolutely no inclination for visual arts and have a relly dodgy sense of perspective when creating it, I could be laborously trained to produce some reasonable sketches or paintings. I would never become a great artist however. Yes you could. If you worked hard at it because you felt you had something to share with people, you could make some pretty great stuff. It's not a given, but with passion most things can be accomplished. If you will it, dude. If you will it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten fingers ten toes Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I think yan g is just saying (in a rather arrogant way), if you really want to make music for an audience of people to enjoy and be excited about, you are going to have to have some natural intuition for creating music. In the same way that I have absolutely no inclination for visual arts and have a relly dodgy sense of perspective when creating it, I could be laborously trained to produce some reasonable sketches or paintings. I would never become a great artist however. Yes you could. If you worked hard at it because you felt you had something to share with people, you could make some pretty great stuff. It's not a given, but with passion most things can be acomplished. If you will it, dude. Right but that's the point, without even the most basic intuition, there's not going to be a strong will. I suppose there could be an exception or two in history, but in general, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yan_g Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 oops been arrogant for sure. apologies! i too am crap at drawing. i can reproduce a photography very well by i just can't draw something out of my mind, it just won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I think yan g is just saying (in a rather arrogant way), if you really want to make music for an audience of people to enjoy and be excited about, you are going to have to have some natural intuition for creating music. In the same way that I have absolutely no inclination for visual arts and have a relly dodgy sense of perspective when creating it, I could be laborously trained to produce some reasonable sketches or paintings. I would never become a great artist however. Yes you could. If you worked hard at it because you felt you had something to share with people, you could make some pretty great stuff. It's not a given, but with passion most things can be acomplished. If you will it, dude. Right but that's the point, without even the most basic intuition, there's not going to be a strong will. I suppose there could be an exception or two in history, but in general, no. fuck yes there is if you can be arsed. theres no such thing as talent, just hard work i grew up being total shit at drawing, until my brother started teaching me properly and me really going at it for several years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten fingers ten toes Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I think yan g is just saying (in a rather arrogant way), if you really want to make music for an audience of people to enjoy and be excited about, you are going to have to have some natural intuition for creating music. In the same way that I have absolutely no inclination for visual arts and have a relly dodgy sense of perspective when creating it, I could be laborously trained to produce some reasonable sketches or paintings. I would never become a great artist however. Yes you could. If you worked hard at it because you felt you had something to share with people, you could make some pretty great stuff. It's not a given, but with passion most things can be acomplished. If you will it, dude. Right but that's the point, without even the most basic intuition, there's not going to be a strong will. I suppose there could be an exception or two in history, but in general, no. fuck yes there is if you can be arsed. theres no such thing as talent, just hard work i grew up being total shit at drawing, until my brother started teaching me properly and me really going at it for several years Right but you obviously had som inclination and desire for it, and I would bet that your "crap" drawings were actually servicable in one way or another. Plus if you were a kid at the time, that helps in terms of development. As an adult, things are much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 no they werent. i even learnt things the wrong way first, with shitty manga proportions from following manga sites.. i eventually relearned everything and went into anatmy.. it just takes alot of hard work. in fact every artist i know just takes it as an insult to hear they have "talent", as it devalidates the amount of sweat and blood and shit that went into getting to where they are now you may have an inclination, as in a drive to get good at it, just as an inclination to become physically fit or a mathematical genius, but nothing except hard work will get you there. we're pretty adaptable as humans and have the possibility to learn whatever shit we feel the need to learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten fingers ten toes Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 The need to learn and the inate talent seem to go hand in hand. I wouldn't even be able to copy "shitty manga proprtions", or draw a straight line, or even a consistantly curvey one, or really anything for that matter. Which is why I never had the drive to (at various times in my youth I wanted to draw "cool things" but when the inate talent was obviously lacking I gravitated toward music). It's not an insult at all, and its also not denying the hard work put into it. It's a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 if you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'm going to have to say that its a combination of hard work and raw talent. Hard work can take you a long way, but talent takes you further. I've seen a lot of dedicated, hard working people make mediocre music, and I've seen some lazy people who hardly put any effort, make amazing stuff. It's true, it does bother me when people ignore all the hard work, and say its just talent, but on the other hand, I think you are also selling a person short, if you are basically saying "anyone could have done that, if they tried hard and long enough". I really don't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinsu Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I'm going to have to say that its a combination of hard work and raw talent. Hard work can take you a long way, but talent takes you further. I've seen a lot of dedicated, hard working people make mediocre music, and I've seen some lazy people who hardly put any effort, make amazing stuff. It's true, it does bother me when people ignore all the hard work, and say its just talent, but on the other hand, I think you are also selling a person short, if you are basically saying "anyone could have done that, if they tried hard and long enough". I really don't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braintree Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Well, you guys need to read about the theory multiple intelligences. Someone has a natural talent [or intelligence] for music as someone has a natural talent for cooking, or math, or navigation, etc. Not to say you won't be a good musician if you don't have a natural talent for it, but those who do have a much greater starting advantage [prodigies]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest welcome to the machine Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 While I agree that those of us born with ability have a greater chance of success, the idea that you cannot LEARN to make good music, or learn to become skilled in any other creative art, is far too bleak. I cite the example of bill evans, he stated himself that he felt under-skilled compared to his peers, and that he had to find his own way of progressing. He learnt theory to a mathematical precision, and developed exercises to strengthen his hands in a way that he could perform his findings, then he practiced his arse off until he could put the two together. He said he only felt that that really happened when he was 28 or so. but listen to his music, its beyond amazing. if you can be an average musician and learn to become great over time, then surely the inability to piece together a great chord sequence and melody is not a case of 'you can do it or you can't' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 the second sample sounds good enough to be in a putumayo compilation!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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