awepittance Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 damn this show went downhill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catsonearth Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Those are mostly just loose ends. They're not things that are currently pulling the story foward. the fallout of the coup, whether or not the fleet will allow the cylon upgrades, how the govt will run now that it's only lee and roslin left are all driving the immediate plot forward into the next episode. the final 5 remembering their purpose (as seen in the trailer for next week's ep) will propel it to the next stage after that. not to mention the cracks in the ship you pointed out that will surely move the plot into yet another crisis mode. the reason i mention all that other stuff is not just that they're loose ends, but i believe those things, once resolved in the next few episodes (i think most of what i listed will be revealed before the finale) will open up another aspect of the story that will propel us into the final act, which will be very different that what i think most people are expecting the ending to be. this is all just my own speculation, of course...not many spoilers have leaked for the last half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catsonearth Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 damn this show went downhill! and how is that, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 the fallout of the coup, whether or not the fleet will allow the cylon upgrades, how the govt will run now that it's only lee and roslin left are all driving the immediate plot forward into the next episode. the fallout of the coup is that the bad guys are dead, everything is cool, and Adama will get his way re the upgrades. There is not story. Lee and Roslyn dealing with no quorum is the stuff of wordy "character moments", not plot. the final 5 remembering their purpose (as seen in the trailer for next week's ep) will propel it to the next stage after that. I watch on channel piratebay, so I didnt see the trailer. That event is totally disconnected from the civil war story though. The whole civil war thing just felt like character pruning to set up the final arc(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azatoth Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 great episode. i am sure lots was cut from this coup arc and hopefully it will be included in the DVDs as extended episodes. the rips tyrol found is probably stress fractures that will make the ship unable to to jump and force them to stay on earth. ellen returning, likely with cavil will cause a ruckus for sure. this show could go anywhere at this point, all i know it's going to be dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catsonearth Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 the fallout of the coup is that the bad guys are dead, everything is cool, and Adama will get his way re the upgrades. except for the fact that the bad guys are not all dead, only zarek and gaeta...there's still a whole lot of people that were siding with them that probably haven't changed their moral stances simply because the guy who they view as a treasonous dictator shot their liberators in the face and flushed them out an airlock. There is not story. Lee and Roslyn dealing with no quorum is the stuff of wordy "character moments", not plot. the plot of the entire run of bsg thusfar has unfolded through "character moments". how the characters deal with what's being thrown at them is the show. it's not so much lee and roslin figuring out how to deal with no quorum that's the story, but rather whether the people of the fleet want only those 2 people having complete control over the future of the human race with no checks and balances and a track record of leading them on wild goose chases. lots of story options there. anything can happen when half the fleet was ready to jump away and leave the rest behind just a few hours ago. I watch on channel piratebay, so I didnt see the trailer. That event is totally disconnected from the civil war story though. The whole civil war thing just felt like character pruning to set up the final arc(s). well, it is connected in the sense that anders was kidnapped by the mutineers and shot in the head trying to escape...since in the trailer he says "i remember all that shit" while lying in a hospital bed with bandages on his head, i think it's fair to assume that something about that near death experience caused him to remember some stuff. but the civil war wasn't just for character pruning - there are much easier ways to prune down the characters - it was a complete game changer (as well as a conclusion to a lot of pre-standing storylines). it sets up the atmosphere of the final act and it's going to set in motion a lot of things that would have probably never come about had the coup not happened. but although zarek and gaeta are dead, i don't think that's the end of the civil war. i'm not really sure what kind of plot you're looking for though. like, literally, where do they go from here? nobody knows. like i said, not many spoilers have leaked for the end of the season. maybe they don't go anywhere. maybe they destroy themselves right there, maybe they just give up, maybe someone/something comes along and gives them another option, maybe they go and find another planet. my take is that all those loose ends will be tied up and the answer that comes out of that will lead us directly into the end of the story - the bigger picture. aside from reaching earth, the point of the entire series has been the cycle of life, death and rebirth of the "human race" (whatever that means). the plot of these last episodes is the plot of how this cycle plays out or perhaps how the cycle is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 here you go AW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 is that Ellen getting resurrected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boo Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Well they told us some stuff in that one didnt they? Some observations/questions: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « If the people on "Earth" had only been there 2000 years, knew they were artificial, and knew they came from space, it wasnt really our Earth then, was it? Have we yet to see our Earth? Or is the whole thing set in a parallel universe? The final 5 know dick about the Starbuck situation, AND they can't resurrect without standard Cylon resurrection tech - so there's definitely still an unseen party in play. (did this same party give the centurions religion?) The final 5 gave the skinjob Cylons feelings, but before that, the centurions still managed to asipre to be human, to come up with a religion, and to rebel against humans? Centurions did all that? Why are they now just the skinjobs' bitches then? There's a 13th Cylon, but now he's dead? Yeah right. Cavill knows shit the other 7 skinjobs don't - "the colony" Doesnt Caprica depict the creation of Skinjob Cylons, not Centurions? Isnt the first ever Cylon a Skinjob? How does this fit with the final 5? Are the final 5 going to be in Caprica? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inteeliguntdesign Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « boomer and ellen setting off together was a bit of a non-sequitur wasn't it? where was the run up to that? boomer had a sudden change of heart walking down the corridor. now that's plot development. at least ellen was great during her conversations with john. at least i finally understand what happened on earth (corrections welcome): cylons and humans lived together on earth, and cylons eventually started to procreate like humans. tension between the two sides because humans had treated the cylons like slaves before. eventually humans set off a nuclear holocaust. before that the final five rediscover resurrection and set off to caprica to warn them to treat the cylons well, else they'll be tension there too, eventully resulting in a war. they get there too late. ellen gives the cylon the ability to create skinjobs (because she thinks that will help?!) believing that they weren't going to kill the humans because the cylons believed in one true god. she guesses incorrectly, cylons nuke the humans on caprica for enslaving the cylons there. john then goes after bsg for a bit more justice, and manages to wipe the final five's memory as well, as punishment for putting him in a human body. so the final is going to be bsg + rebel cylons against john and his cylons, when they turn up after following boomer and ellen? the daniel thing is a bit weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « They have said fairly cleary that there were NEVER humans on earth, only "Cylons", who were created on Kobol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « did they seriously send sanders into a coma? lol, this should end delussions of "brilliant writing" anyway I don't think i got all of what was revelead. so... final 5 escaped earth and created a new race of cylons, number 1 kinda rebelled and erased the memory of them on the other skinjobs, he also banished the 5 to caprica and erased their memories. is this right? i didn't get anything at all about earth and kobol and that stuff, should watch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « I'm not sure if Cavill erased the other Skinjobs' memories of the final 5 or if he just double crossed the FF before the other skinjobs were done incubating (Ellen says Cavill fucked with Daniel while his copies were still incubating). The Earth/Cylon/Kobol stuff is mostly in episode 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inteeliguntdesign Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « They have said fairly cleary that there were NEVER humans on earth, only "Cylons", who were created on Kobol » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « So, there was a civil war on Earth, between the various cylons, and then the final five left for Caprica to tell those on Caprica what exactly? Wasn't it not to enslave the cylons lest they'll rebel? And the final five knew this because one group of cylons on Earth, the skinjobs, had enslaved the others, the mechanic ones, so eventally the mechanic ones rebelled and eventually nuked Earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I dunno. All I know is they said there were nothing but Cylons on Earth. It doesnt make sense why they would have a war or how their war would connect to them wanting to prevent a human/Cylon war which theirs clearly wasn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catsonearth Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i think the general idea was that on earth, those cylons had become so human that they perhaps didn't even realize that they were machines (they had been reproducing naturally for a long time) and naturally began to build machines to do some of their busy work and hard labor. eventually, at least a few (the 5) realized the truth and figured out how to reverse engineer resurrection and thought "hey, if this happened to us, chances are the people on the 12 colonies might also go down this route, let's go try to stop that before it happens", but by the time they arrived, the humans had already created cylons and they were already at war, so they were too late. so instead, they made a deal with the metal cylons who were trying to evolve human bodies of their own to call off the war in exchange for their help creating skinjobs. ellen believed that since the centurions already had their own monotheistic faith that they would be less prone to violence if they just got what they really wanted - to look the way god intended his children to look - like humans. i imagine we'll come to learn something similar is the case with the colonials being cylons themselves who have become indistinguishable from humans and therefore assumed they were humans. my guess is that kobol itself was a colony of earth long before the 13th tribe left kobol to go (re)find earth and that everyone on that kobol colony was a cylon. if i were to guess, i'd say that the original earth humans didn't have FTL travel and used artificial bodies to travel the long distances between earth and kobol. once the cylons reached kobol, they lost contact with earth (maybe because they traveled at sub-light and by the time they got there the humans on earth had already died out) and had to start their society from scratch based on the amalgam of data from human cultures carried over from the long journey. "life here began out there" was written on kobol, so we kinda know that kobol isn't the birthplace of humanity although they seem to be hinting that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 from what Sam was saying, it definitely seemed like the Earth Cylons knew they were Cylons and knew they were from space. They also had space travel, even though it looked like the present day in the flashbacks. I still think the "gods" are going to turn out be the last surviving honest to god real actual humans from earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catsonearth Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 from what Sam was saying, it definitely seemed like the Earth Cylons knew they were Cylons and knew they were from space. They also had space travel, even though it looked like the present day in the flashbacks. what makes you think that? i mean, it's safe to assume they had space travel left over from the kobol voyage, but they didn't really have anywhere to go once they were living on earth. the final 5 had a ship in orbit, but it wasn't FTL. it's still a little shady as to whether or not they had FTL at the time they were originally traveling to earth, but assuming they did (it wouldn't really make sense otherwise), that knowledge fell out of common use just like resurrection because it simply wasn't needed anymore. I still think the "gods" are going to turn out be the last surviving honest to god real actual humans from earth i think so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 what makes you think that? i mean, it's safe to assume they had space travel left over from the kobol voyage, but they didn't really have anywhere to go once they were living on earth. the final 5 had a ship in orbit, but it wasn't FTL. it's still a little shady as to whether or not they had FTL at the time they were originally traveling to earth, but assuming they did (it wouldn't really make sense otherwise), that knowledge fell out of common use just like resurrection because it simply wasn't needed anymore. I just think that a person who discovered their race was artificial would be the most famous and controversial person on the planet, and would probably get murdered by religious zealots. Whereas we see the final 5 in flashbacks acting like ordinary folks, mingling in crowds, etc. Also, Sam is very matter of fact when he says things like "we didnt need resurrection because we could reproduce biologically", like he's stating the obvious. If this was a stunning revelation that the final 5 had discovered, he would have spoken of it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catsonearth Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I just think that a person who discovered their race was artificial would be the most famous and controversial person on the planet, and would probably get murdered by religious zealots. Whereas we see the final 5 in flashbacks acting like ordinary folks, mingling in crowds, etc. that's true, but it seemed to me like the 5 were doing what they were doing in private without the general knowledge of the public at large. if everybody found out, they'd all want to be resurrected. i'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems like it could go either way. it would make the most sense to me if the 13th tribe arrived at earth and at some point soon after that, their technology regressed a lot. otherwise, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense that super advanced machines wouldn't be able to create anything more advanced that a clunky metal centurion after several thousand years of technological progression from the point at which they arrived, which was already pretty damn advanced. but if their technology regressed and their society as a whole regressed to an almost primitive state it would be very easy to explain how they forgot their true nature and how it took them several 1000 years to develop centurions that are less technologically advanced that they are themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 perhaps they lost a lot of tech because they fled Kobol in a "rag-tag fleet". they do keep telling us that "ALL this has happened before" :undecided: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 :getlost: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « wait, so Ellen and Boomer were stuck in that lil spaceship together for 18 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 how do you know how much time has passed? anyway last episode was such a cocktease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest analogue wings Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 how do you know how much time has passed? cos when they were escaping it said "18 months ago" actually, it might have changed to "12 months ago" by the end of that ep, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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