Siegecow Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 edit. wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essines Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I can't imagine living in any other period. maybe it's just me but i fucking love history for just this. i wish i could be living in another time period just to see what it's like. it fascinates me beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well salv i think if you're really happy and you're enjoying your life, you should want to reproduce that experience in other people, and it should sadden you when other people are denied this opportunity and forced to live and die in suffering. Just because you have grasped the concept that nature is unforgiving and apathetic, doesnt exempt you from the basic aspects of being human. You can acknowledge that bad things must happen without welcoming it on other people. You can pretend to have a cosmic ambivalence, but as a human, every day you're going to strive towards pleasure and happiness, and if you've truly experienced it, you will want to bring it to others. This doesn't mean lets all try to cure cancer and end world hunger world peace man etc., but that, hey, you're alive, and if you want to keep living you might as well try to enjoy yourself, and enjoying yourself will require others around you to be enjoying themselves, for other people to enjoy themselves, things have to be good, and in this way, just by living you have an obligation to create and preserve goodness, and contribute to this grand superorganism than you are a part of. Your happiness today is the result of this perpetual human inclination. You can pretend that you love all things unconditionally, but i'd like to see how much you'd love to have your mother get hit by a truck. There will be plenty of time to be ambivalent when you're dead and reunited with the cosmos. In the meantime, you're alive, dont twiddle your thumbs and act like its a spectator sport for your enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv_party Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 the idea of anarchy as a sustainable mode of human existence depends on naive teenage punk fantasy that totally ignores a basic law of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesomeperson Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I've played enough GTA 3 to know how to deal with drug cartels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 just by living you have an obligation to create and preserve goodness, and contribute to this grand superorganism than you are a part of. Your happiness today is the result of this perpetual human inclination. Perpetual? There is nothing perpetual about it. Spreading "goodness" isn't going to save our species from its inevitable faceplant. Doesn't anyone have the fucking ability to think forward more than just a couple years? God damn. Green technology and renewable resources are not going to kick in unless a global change in consciousness, and the succeeding population decrease occurs. What the fuck does goodness mean now, anyway? There was goodness before technology. And goodness coupled with all the modern appliances is exactly our path to destruction, until something comes and gives us a crash-course step in evolving our brains to match our technology, its all been echoed before. Our bodies are full of archaic genetic functions that limit our perfection to a rate much slower than our technology develops. SO BASICALLY...do you want to just fit the pattern just one more time (build up and fall down) while trying to uphold "goodness" or do you want to finally step up as a species and work out that quirk that keeps fucking up everytime we make a civilization, and maybe establish a permanant, peaceful, sustainable, society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest atropa Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 atrocities, death, famine, torture and trauma on millions of millions of people trust me, i used to be an anarchist 3-4 years ago. Anarchy is not chaos. You were probably a lousy anarchist. not ideally. But jesus christ, there is no way you could have anarchy, ie no government for anyone, everyone can do whatever the fuck they want, and not have all those things i listed. People are rotten and the vast majority of them cannot care for themselves in this day and age. Free-for-all redistribution of power is only going to put us under the rule of whoever fights dirtiest dissolution of the state and other hierarchical forms of authority does not mean the dissolution of organization in general. it's really just a different set of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 the idea of anarchy as a sustainable mode of human existence depends on naive teenage punk fantasy that totally ignores a basic law of survival. And when this basic law of survival is muffled on the scale of billions, we get the world and its crash course now. Everyone has the tendency to act like Human progression is cyclical, and it could very well be, but where is the evidence? And why now, when a species has the ability to realize its flaw....not correct it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 atrocities, death, famine, torture and trauma on millions of millions of people trust me, i used to be an anarchist 3-4 years ago. Anarchy is not chaos. You were probably a lousy anarchist. not ideally. But jesus christ, there is no way you could have anarchy, ie no government for anyone, everyone can do whatever the fuck they want, and not have all those things i listed. People are rotten and the vast majority of them cannot care for themselves in this day and age. Free-for-all redistribution of power is only going to put us under the rule of whoever fights dirtiest You think I'm an Anarchist though? I'm obviously not. It just so happens that for one way to fix the problem, it would help for most people to stop reproducing, and then a group of engineers to set up an incredibly organized society and perhaps, utilizing all techniques, gradually weed out human nature... Please realize, this doesn't reflect my desires or intensions...it is just what analyzation of the Human situation in my mind brings me. There isn't any answer for sustainability that lets us continue expanding...the very word "sustainability" goes against "Expansion" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORDO Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 the idea of anarchy as a sustainable mode of human existence depends on naive teenage punk fantasy that totally ignores a basic law of survival. and ron paul fanatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tv_party Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 OT: for the record I did think that ron paul, given that the more radical elements of his ideology would have been moderated by the system, would have been the best man for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EDGEY Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 atrocities, death, famine, torture and trauma on millions of millions of people trust me, i used to be an anarchist 3-4 years ago. Anarchy is not chaos. You were probably a lousy anarchist. not ideally. But jesus christ, there is no way you could have anarchy, ie no government for anyone, everyone can do whatever the fuck they want, and not have all those things i listed. People are rotten and the vast majority of them cannot care for themselves in this day and age. Free-for-all redistribution of power is only going to put us under the rule of whoever fights dirtiest Then you are discussing an oppressive dictatorship/monarchy, not anarchism. As a former anarchist, you should know better. It is one thing to say "the result of anarchy would be the creation of a monarchy", it is another to say that they are one in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 What's probably going on is that the CIA actually instituted this uprising in order to convince us (and the Mexican people) that it is the right thing to by having the US govt eventually go in there and throw shit over. Coupled with immigration issues and the failing global economy, we'll exploit our "right" to Canadian oil and Mexican cheap labor, thereby combining all three "forces" into the North American Union. The Amero will emerge, and with it eradicate our debts in (former) Dollars. This shift will also require a redrafting of the Constitution. Simple. Good thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 just by living you have an obligation to create and preserve goodness, and contribute to this grand superorganism than you are a part of. Your happiness today is the result of this perpetual human inclination. Perpetual? There is nothing perpetual about it. Spreading "goodness" isn't going to save our species from its inevitable faceplant. Doesn't anyone have the fucking ability to think forward more than just a couple years? God damn. Green technology and renewable resources are not going to kick in unless a global change in consciousness, and the succeeding population decrease occurs. What the fuck does goodness mean now, anyway? There was goodness before technology. And goodness coupled with all the modern appliances is exactly our path to destruction, until something comes and gives us a crash-course step in evolving our brains to match our technology, its all been echoed before. Our bodies are full of archaic genetic functions that limit our perfection to a rate much slower than our technology develops. SO BASICALLY...do you want to just fit the pattern just one more time (build up and fall down) while trying to uphold "goodness" or do you want to finally step up as a species and work out that quirk that keeps fucking up everytime we make a civilization, and maybe establish a permanant, peaceful, sustainable, society. Its absolutely perpetual. People who are happy perpetuate happiness, who perpetuate happiness, on and on, its because of people helping others for thousands of years that you can kick back in your underwear in a heated room, talking to someone hundreds of miles away. And no it doesnt save us from an "inevitable" faceplant, but it certainly helps make things more enjoyable for yourself and others, and then maybe humanity as a whole would be more inclined to intelligence, mindfulness, compassion, instead of ignorance, greed and excess. This is not inherently a path to destruction. I dont think you realize that we are mere decades away from merging technology with the human body, thereby completely removing any "archaic genetic limitations", you act like technology affects everything around us except us, and its simply not true. Technology is starting to go much faster than us, but it cant go anywhere without us, we have to go with. Salv, goodness IS a permanent peaceful sustainable society. If that is what you think is truly GOOD, then that is goodness. Obviously if you think "modern appliances" are the harbingers of the apocalypse, theyre not GOOD are they? You think I'm an Anarchist though? I'm obviously not. It just so happens that for one way to fix the problem, it would help for most people to stop reproducing, and then a group of engineers to set up an incredibly organized society and perhaps, utilizing all techniques, gradually weed out human nature... Please realize, this doesn't reflect my desires or intensions...it is just what analyzation of the Human situation in my mind brings me. There isn't any answer for sustainability that lets us continue expanding...the very word "sustainability" goes against "Expansion" . No it doesn't seem like you're too much of an anarchist, but it is by no means a way of "fixing" this "problem". Only resetting things and recreating horrible problems we've already solved. We can sustain ourselves and expand at the same time, technology is the only way to do this. Expansion theoretically only requires energy, and last time i checked, there's thousands of earthsworth of energy being thrown off into space at every moment. There are ways to sustain ourselves that we are only now becoming available to us, to have all of it knocked down because people werent willing to try to endure and fix our tough problems is just silly. If you've truly "analyzed" our situation you should realize that we have a very small opportunity to succeed in our situation, this has been the case many times in the past and we've pulled through, thanks to the desire for ourselves and other to exist peacefully. This must happen again, and it will require action, not apathy, to pull us through this tiny window perhaps not unscathed, but alive, wiser, and stronger than ever thought possible. If you have any appreciation for anything humanity as done, then you should want to contribute to helping make sure we pull through. Then you are discussing an oppressive dictatorship/monarchy, not anarchism. As a former anarchist, you should know better. It is one thing to say "the result of anarchy would be the creation of a monarchy", it is another to say that they are one in the same. No, im just stating a plain-as-day fact, that, when anarchy takes place, ie the dissolution of government, there are no rules, it is nothing but a breeding ground for greed, pestilence, violence. During this time absolutely no progress takes place as people just struggle to survive by any means possible. People band together to survive, and these small communities they commit more brutality. This continues until eventually these communities congeal into larger and larger societies until you're back to a gigantic government, and hey it only took us a thousand years of getting absolutely nothing done, continuing to rape our environment, and committing atrocities. And then we're even worse off than before. Oh, but we're a few billion honest people lighter. "anarchy is not chaos" indeed. You cant gain anything from anarchy that you yourself cant have right now. That said, its juvenile shit that should be done away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 No it doesn't seem like you're too much of an anarchist, but it is by no means a way of "fixing" this "problem". Only resetting things and recreating horrible problems we've already solved. We can sustain ourselves and expand at the same time, technology is the only way to do this. Expansion theoretically only requires energy, and last time i checked, there's thousands of earthsworth of energy being thrown off into space at every moment. There are ways to sustain ourselves that we are only now becoming available to us, to have all of it knocked down because people werent willing to try to endure and fix our tough problems is just silly. If you've truly "analyzed" our situation you should realize that we have a very small opportunity to succeed in our situation, this has been the case many times in the past and we've pulled through, thanks to the desire for ourselves and other to exist peacefully. This must happen again, and it will require action, not apathy, to pull us through this tiny window perhaps not unscathed, but alive, wiser, and stronger than ever thought possible. If you have any appreciation for anything humanity as done, then you should want to contribute to helping make sure we pull through. In one light, you and nearly 99% of all Humans on this planet are flawed in believing that our society, our global civilization, is correctly constructed to support anything remotely sustainable. (I'm playing an impossible argument here, there is obviously no support in this realm, I mean, anti-humanity? lol) I'm not against the succeeding of Mankind, here. I'm just really skeptical of what people expect life to be like with renewable, sustainable energy. I'm sure everyone thinks it would be just like its always been...I'd like to watch it happen. I'm serious. Anything could happen. Who knows what the next 60 years will be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Woah, I'm already so disconnected from whatever I was thinking the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 People who are happy perpetuate happiness, who perpetuate happiness What about people who derive happiness from the pain and misery of others? Or people who derive happiness from the pursuit of power and care not if they have to commit genocide to get there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 perhaps there should be a philosophical dialog about "the happiness", the way you are all arguing it might as well be The Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrcopyandpaste Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 happyness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 People who are happy perpetuate happiness, who perpetuate happiness What about people who derive happiness from the pain and misery of others? Or people who derive happiness from the pursuit of power and care not if they have to commit genocide to get there? I'd argue that these people don't know true happiness, and maybe never have, and never will. They were never shown, or were shortsighted or jealous of those that do know it. They try to horde their own idea of temporary happiness for themselves and only themselves. Its a cliche struggle of people perpetuating both good and bad, and they both sort of keep each other in check, but most of the time people who are only partially content dont see it fit to try and help others, so they decide to wait until they've satisfied themselves, and most of them never do, or when they do, they're too old and dont feel like they have the time or energy to do anything. Obviously there are many conflicts from many people who want many different things. Variety is the spice of life, and the wonderful amount of diversity coming from all things will create many crossroads, both good and bad. But there are common goals for all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 stop using happines, from now on use "the Good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 People who are happy perpetuate happiness, who perpetuate happiness What about people who derive happiness from the pain and misery of others? Or people who derive happiness from the pursuit of power and care not if they have to commit genocide to get there? I'd argue that these people don't know true happiness, and maybe never have, and never will. What? As you said in your post (which I truncated here) "variety is the spice of life". People derive pleasure from various activities. You can't define happiness for other people. stop using happines, from now on use "the Good" happiness and good are two different concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR4 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 no no no ah forget it. continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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