tips or tricks with mixing/producing?

[vamos scorcho]

i need help. i don't know what i'm doing when I EQ and compress. i don't know what half of these things are (hipass, lowpass, noise reducer, and so on), and I think it's time that I learned. When are these things useful? what resources are there for me to read and learn about how to use them? how did you guys learn?

[marf]

I just uploaded this torrent. Best text you could read.

 

 

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1984921/?rel=1246845045

[vamos scorcho]

sweet! it's not working for me right now - i don't understand bittorrent.

 

though this book looks awesome, and i am grateful for the link, that doesn't help with the question of production. from what i gather this book is about synthesizers, not audio production.

[marf]

My advice on that front is to keep you signal flow as high end as you can. Get a nice mixer with good EQ. Get a high end reverb or delay box. If you want something that sounds gritty use it that way but don't try and pass it off as your default reverb etc. If you signal flow is great from start to finish than you should have a pretty nice turd and you won't need to polish it too much at the final stage with stupid EQ software and crummy sounding compression plugins.

[Guest Wall Bird]

I wouldn't get caught up in learning about various brands and makes of specific gear just yet.

 

I highly recommend 'The Mix Engineer's Handbook' by Bobby Owsinski. It's intermediate in that it wont tell you what reverb or a compressor does or how it works, but it will tell you several strategies for using them tastefully in the context of a mix. It has several good methods on how to improve your critical listening and developing your ear for what works in a mix. The last 1/3 of the book consists of interviews with popular engineers where he asks them about their methods. I cant recommend this book enough

[Bubba69]

The thing that took me the longest to learn is don't overdo anything, or if you are going to overdo something, only overdo one thing. If your drums are not loud enough, don't put a compressor on it, just bring the volume of all of your tracks WAY down. Also, if you have less going, it is much much easier to get it to sound good. If you want to make your tracks more complicated, try to separate the increasing layers by putting them in their own frequency ranges and stereo channels. Highpass the shit out of your shit, put reverb on shit and remove the middle channel. The more you separate and simplify and keep reworking things from the ground up when it starts to sound shitty, the better it will be in the end. Highpass almost everything, bass acculmulates like a motherfucker. Don't be afraid to fuck with shit either, it's a good thing for learning. Just experiment and see for yourself, make multiple copies of your tracks and totally rework them without being afraid and many times, you will realize how wrong you went about it the first time and will be able to get it to sound a TON better. I've been doing this with some old tracks lately that were originally composed to my liking, but sounded muddy, now they sound great to my ears. I had no idea I could squeeze so much out of them just by going back with what I know now.

 

I know this sounds stupid and oversimplified, but I keep these ideas in my mind from day to day and it really helps me out and get close to the results I want.

[vamos scorcho]

great advice in here.

 

i've never used hipass. i'll wikipedia what that does.

 

yeah i definitely, definitely, definitely have a problem with overdoing things. i want to have all these layers going at once, i want the "mindblowing" sound of 1000 things happening at the same time.

 

but i simply can't pull it off right now. i'll figure it out though. i guess it just means messing with the song for hours until it sounds right. and of course taking the tips in this thread.

 

thanks for the book recommendation as well.

 

 

 

i also need to wiki signal flow.

[Guest Wall Bird]

Yeah. That's great advice from Bubba, right there. If you're having trouble hearing one element in a mix, the solution is usually to lower the volume of something else. I know, it sounds counterintuitive, but it does work. Get in the habit of carving out frequencies when EQing. By this I mean, if, for example, you're going to boost your vocals by 2 dB in the 2.4k range, then subtract an equal amount from another instrument that is competing with the vocals in that range. This carving-out of frequencies will allow the different musical voices to complement each other and keep a mix sounding clear.

 

Also, as a general rule, you should EQ very subtly. Usually no more tthan 2-3 dB for a given frequency. Favor cutting frequencies instead of adding them, because when you boost the internal math of the EQ will create phase issues that can color the sound in an undesirable way. This is a more subtle point, but one that you may as well keep in mind now and get in the habit of.

 

Also, as Bubba alluded to, don't be afraid to roll off huge amount of low end or high end from certain musical voices using hi-pass or low-pass filters. This will, of course, (in the case of the low pass filtering) make the instrument sound darker and more dull, pushing it into the back of the mix. It will sound bad by itself, but in the context of the mix it will allow the more important elements to stand out. You cannot have all elements up front in a mix, because if everything is loud and bright-sounding then, in effect, none of them are. Contrast between sounds are what is going to give your mixes character.

[Guest hahathhat]

yeah i definitely, definitely, definitely have a problem with overdoing things. i want to have all these layers going at once, i want the "mindblowing" sound of 1000 things happening at the same time.

 

regarding mix/master -- you're going to just have to read up, noodle around, and sort it out for yourself. if that's too much effort on your own, take a class, get someone to teach you (in person!!). in the end, suffice to say the basic goal of it all is to make everything clearly audible, smooth on the ear, and loud. it can, of course, feed back into the songwriting process, but it won't until you understand it.

 

layering however, i have something to say -- especially after hearing your tracks....

 

sculpting is the best analogy i have. one of the greats -- michaelangelo or such, i forget which -- once said that "sculpting is the process of removing the stone that doesn't belong." you start off with a boring, square hunk of marble. you remove large chunks to form the basic shape of the statue, then little bits here and there to flesh out the details. finally, you smooth it out with sandpaper.

 

for simplicity's sake, let's say your song is all 1bar loops. they all stack together and create this one massive cacaphonous loop you love. copy and paste that stack of loops for two minutes -- there's your boring, square hunk of marble -- every loop playing all the time.

 

you delete loops at the beginning -- so it starts off with loop A, then loop B starts playing on top of loop A, then loop C on of both. there, you have a rudimentry intro. but hold on, that's still kind of boring -- mix it up further. start off with one loop A, then you add in loop B. but then, instead of just adding in loop C (yielding loops ABC stacked) you instead replace loop B with loop C, yielding loops AC... and then maybe you add loop B back in at the same time you introduce loop D.

 

so your original block of marble...

 

Measure 1: ABCD

Measure 2: ABCD

Measure 3: ABCD

Measure 4: ABCD

 

might go to...

 

Measure 1: A

Measure 2: AB

Measure 3: AC

Measure 4: ABCD

 

you cut away the loops in interesting patterns to form the basic shape of your sculpture, until you have the whole track roughed out. then, you go in and add detail. you edit a loop here and there -- to enhance a buildup or breakdown, alleviate ear boredom, whatever. the fact that you already have the basic shape of the statue cut out keeps you from getting lost and mired in a sea of tiny edits.

 

eventually, you're happy with your detail additions. THEN you bust out the sandpaper and polish -- EQ and mix process, hipass filters, and make sure everything shines the way it should....

 

hope that made sense. it might not have

[acid1]

just slap an L1 limiter/maximizer at -23db 400ms on it and call it a day...

[ryancolecreate]

I wouldn't get caught up in learning about various brands and makes of specific gear just yet.

 

I highly recommend 'The Mix Engineer's Handbook' by Bobby Owsinski. It's intermediate in that it wont tell you what reverb or a compressor does or how it works, but it will tell you several strategies for using them tastefully in the context of a mix. It has several good methods on how to improve your critical listening and developing your ear for what works in a mix. The last 1/3 of the book consists of interviews with popular engineers where he asks them about their methods. I cant recommend this book enough

 

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1703545/5988400/

[ryancolecreate]

regarding mix/master -- you're going to just have to read up, noodle around, and sort it out for yourself. if that's too much effort on your own, take a class, get someone to teach you (in person!!). in the end, suffice to say the basic goal of it all is to make everything clearly audible, smooth on the ear, and loud. it can, of course, feed back into the songwriting process, but it won't until you understand it.

 

layering however, i have something to say -- especially after hearing your tracks....

 

sculpting is the best analogy i have. one of the greats -- michaelangelo or such, i forget which -- once said that "sculpting is the process of removing the stone that doesn't belong." you start off with a boring, square hunk of marble. you remove large chunks to form the basic shape of the statue, then little bits here and there to flesh out the details. finally, you smooth it out with sandpaper.

 

for simplicity's sake, let's say your song is all 1bar loops. they all stack together and create this one massive cacaphonous loop you love. copy and paste that stack of loops for two minutes -- there's your boring, square hunk of marble -- every loop playing all the time.

 

you delete loops at the beginning -- so it starts off with loop A, then loop B starts playing on top of loop A, then loop C on of both. there, you have a rudimentry intro. but hold on, that's still kind of boring -- mix it up further. start off with one loop A, then you add in loop B. but then, instead of just adding in loop C (yielding loops ABC stacked) you instead replace loop B with loop C, yielding loops AC... and then maybe you add loop B back in at the same time you introduce loop D.

 

so your original block of marble...

 

Measure 1: ABCD

Measure 2: ABCD

Measure 3: ABCD

Measure 4: ABCD

 

might go to...

 

Measure 1: A

Measure 2: AB

Measure 3: AC

Measure 4: ABCD

 

you cut away the loops in interesting patterns to form the basic shape of your sculpture, until you have the whole track roughed out. then, you go in and add detail. you edit a loop here and there -- to enhance a buildup or breakdown, alleviate ear boredom, whatever. the fact that you already have the basic shape of the statue cut out keeps you from getting lost and mired in a sea of tiny edits.

 

eventually, you're happy with your detail additions. THEN you bust out the sandpaper and polish -- EQ and mix process, hipass filters, and make sure everything shines the way it should....

 

hope that made sense. it might not have

 

That's some damn useful advice. Maybe the best I've heard on watmm. :)

[vamos scorcho]

this thread is good to the point where i've read it ten times, and will use it as a cheat sheet while i'm working.

 

THANKS for that link. no seeders though.

 

my method is to pile a ton of things up

 

mess with volume only, never really rearranging loops. so i'll automate it so certain parts stick out, other parts are muted, etc.

 

another question:

are these sentences correct? :

mixing is messing with individual tracks

mastering is messing with the single combination of all tracks?

[Guest Wall Bird]

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1703545/5988400/

 

I wish I could tell what your linking me to, but I don't have access to this site. Is it the book I was referring to?

[marf]

it is, good book

[mcbpete]

Here's a great mini guide that I've used, it links to some pretty good further reading too (especially the reference tables of The Equalization Primer link) - http://www.tweakheadz.com/EQ_and_the_Limits_of_Audio.html

[marf]

I am looking for an EQ guide of what frequencies mean to what instruments. In other words, how do I set the three knobs for the hi hat, the bass drum, what should the freqs be for instruments to get a nice clean mix. Where to carve out and what are the numbers that correlate?

[Guest welcome to the machine]

 

another question:

are these sentences correct? :

mixing is messing with individual tracks

mastering is messing with the single combination of all tracks?

 

yeah those sentences are correct, mastering also gets a track ready for cd/vinyl etc by sorting out the gaps between the tracks and other medium-specific processes.

 

As for a chart of things/frequencies to eq, that is a good way to get started but don't let it be your bible. three different kicks will need three different eq's to get the best out of them when listening to them on their own. one kick may have loads of sub so you need to turn the lows down, another may loads of the high 'beater slap' which needs turning down. then you take into account the track and the slappy kick may actually be just what you need, if you want a really 'present' kick you may want to turn the tops up even further!

 

once you add all the other instruments in the kick may be fighting for space, so you need to find where it sounds good and carve that frequency away in other low end things. these are just very basic examples but should show that eq is not something that can really be done on a sound by sound basis, and should be done in relation to the track you have and what you want to achieve.

 

a variation of this is when people eq a sound on its own so that it sounds exciting. you can do this with a load of samples then pick and choose from them when you make a track. that way you know you will like all the sounds initially but getting them to work together will then require further eq. all this eq may ruin a track and make it sound synthetic, def not what you want with a band but this is a bit less critical with electronic music of course! taking things too far is often what makes it sound cool!

 

however, eq'ing things to a chart of 'what to do' can help to start with as you can hear what the different frequency ranges sound like, so when you want a huge subby kick you know to reach for the 60hz band on your eq or when your whole track sounds a bit dull you can whack in some 15k+ on the master bus.

 

its a big and complex learning curve but the important thing to rememeber, something I used to forget a lot, is to just listen. when I started I spent ages never boosting the tops on kicks because I though thats not 'what you should do' but then started to listen and heard all these clicky punchy kicks that sounded great and thought 'duh'...

[marf]

so, do you work in a studio? I find that layering diff percussion sounds is very nice. Like several snares and toms etc. All layered into one drum sound. .

[Guest welcome to the machine]

so, do you work in a studio? I find that layering diff percussion sounds is very nice. Like several snares and toms etc. All layered into one drum sound. .

 

yeah, I've made electronic stuff for years but my day job is working in a studio.

 

layering drums is a great way to get what you want, and a great way to get what you want without eq sometimes as well. traditionally the shortest path approach is normally considered the best, ie you can make a bass bassier with an eq, but better still you can use a bassier sound to begin with or layer up a bassier sound! ie the less steps to get the sound you want the better, often anyway.

 

in the studio it works along the lines of

 

Put up a kick and a mic and see if it sounds good, if it doesnt listen to the kick and give it a tune, move it in the room, change the beater even change the drum if you can. if it the drum sounds good but not how you would like it in the control room then move a step down the chain and move the mic around, if that doesnt work put up a different mic and repeat. Then combine two mics and move them around etc. then if it needs it start to add a bit of eq and compression etc.

 

this process is comparable in electronic music to choosing the right samples to begin with, then trying to combine them and trying out different levels for the different samples, then reaching for a filter or eq to mold them into one, then eqin the whole thing to fit with the track etc.

 

the point is you start with the fundamental 'does it actually sound good BEFORE i start fiddling with it?' that makes everytihng easier. you soon get used to the fact that a lot of sounds WILL end up going to the 'reach for the eq' stage, we have become used to the very processed sound of modern music, and electronic music especially is hugely dependant on processing, its what makes it so fun!

 

but when you get down to the fundamentals sounds should generally have the character you want before you eq, becuase its hard to use it to create something that isn't there in the first place!

 

but hey its all about mucking around, and i don't think you have to be TOO strict with electronic stuff.

 

to the op - maybe a good place to start is to group all your drums and add an eq to the whole lot, move around an eq point and see what it does when playing along with the rest of the track, see what sounds good. drastic eq like this is the sort of thing you often end up leaving off the final version of the track but its good to hear how it alters such a fundamental thing as the drums, you may even find it sounds pretty good on subtle settings!

[ryancolecreate]

I just uploaded this torrent. Best text you could read.

 

 

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1984921/?rel=1246845045

 

done seeding it?

[Guest futuregirlfriend]

If anyone does manage to find that ^ mediafire it please!

[marf]

I just uploaded this torrent. Best text you could read.

 

 

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1984921/?rel=1246845045

 

done seeding it?

 

Is it not working. Ive had trouble with it

[ryancolecreate]

:(

[ryancolecreate]

oooohhhh.

 

Just found "The Theory and Technique of Electronic Music" by Miller Puckette ! (creator of MAX and PD) Looks like it has lots of great stuff over DSP and shizz like that....

 

http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques/latest/book.pdf

TIP: Try searching the Goog with '.pdf' at the end of your search string.