chenGOD Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I wish you would stop using the invention that connects you to this website. yeah and capitalism/liberalism is a great thing. Oh look, you took two completely unrelated things and linked them together, that's cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I wish you would stop using the invention that connects you to this website. yeah and capitalism/liberalism is a great thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I wish you would stop using the invention that connects you to this website. yeah and capitalism/liberalism is a great thing. Oh look, you took two completely unrelated things and linked them together, that's cute. bim bada-(l)o(l) boo-BOOM + We argue in this paper that the last best hope for economic prosperity is a system based on private property rights, capitalism and limited government. One of the reasons for this claim is that, in such a system, in contrast to one in which the state plays a large role, when mistakes are made, those responsible for them automatically tend to go bankrupt; … The reason cows, chickens, dogs, cats and pigs have not come within a million miles of risking extinction is because they are all privately owned. Their owners have an economic incentive to protect them, even to see to it that their numbers are increased, for that is the way they can best maximise profits. In sharp contrast, the elephant, the rhino, the deer, the buffalo have all in recent years been endangered, save for those the rights to which have been privatised. This is not due to the fact that profits cannot be made by exploiting these animal resources. Very much to the contrary, the latter animals are also very valuable to humans; in fact, in those cases where the rights have been privatised, these animals have generated incomes for their owners. The real explanation is that laws have, almost always, prevented private property ownership of them. Thus, our policy will be to rescind all legislation prohibiting the ownership of any non-human species. This is our last best hope for protecting them from extinction. adopt an elephant, save the world ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I wish you would stop using the invention that connects you to this website. yeah and capitalism/liberalism is a great thing. Oh look, you took two completely unrelated things and linked them together, that's cute. bim bada-(l)o(l) boo-BOOM + We argue in this paper that the last best hope for economic prosperity is a system based on private property rights, capitalism and limited government. One of the reasons for this claim is that, in such a system, in contrast to one in which the state plays a large role, when mistakes are made, those responsible for them automatically tend to go bankrupt; … The reason cows, chickens, dogs, cats and pigs have not come within a million miles of risking extinction is because they are all privately owned. Their owners have an economic incentive to protect them, even to see to it that their numbers are increased, for that is the way they can best maximise profits. In sharp contrast, the elephant, the rhino, the deer, the buffalo have all in recent years been endangered, save for those the rights to which have been privatised. This is not due to the fact that profits cannot be made by exploiting these animal resources. Very much to the contrary, the latter animals are also very valuable to humans; in fact, in those cases where the rights have been privatised, these animals have generated incomes for their owners. The real explanation is that laws have, almost always, prevented private property ownership of them. Thus, our policy will be to rescind all legislation prohibiting the ownership of any non-human species. This is our last best hope for protecting them from extinction. adopt an elephant, save the world ! thx for the articles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 also wtf salvatorin aren't you supposed to be some kind of hippy ? If you want i can withdraw my "capitalism/liberalism" and replace it with "globalization". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 also wtf salvatorin aren't you supposed to be some kind of hippy ? If you want i can withdraw my "capitalism/liberalism" and replace it with "globalization". I think the main streak of my arguments here has been oriented around trying to avoid symbolic reasoning and think things on the basis of subjective reality...that is to say...trying to not classify people based on self-referentially hollow titles such as 'pure' or 'righteous' or 'hippy' for example. If one felt the need to 'check my qualifications' I am interested in such anti-consumerist/anti-globalist (or representative democracy) organizations such as: -really really free market -wwoof -crimethInc. I don't feel like my socio-political leanings necessarily have to comply with some kind of expected personality type though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It may seem ironic considering my at times outlandish fixations and demeanors, but I actually tend to appreciate rationality and pragmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Helper ET Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 also wtf salvatorin aren't you supposed to be some kind of hippy ? If you want i can withdraw my "capitalism/liberalism" and replace it with "globalization". I think the main streak of my arguments here has been oriented around trying to avoid symbolic reasoning and think things on the basis of subjective reality...that is to say...trying to not classify people based on self-referentially hollow titles such as 'pure' or 'righteous' or 'hippy' for example. If people had to decide whether you are a 'hippy', a 'scientist', a 'junkie'… on the basis of the pic you recently posted in 'Post your more recent pic thread', i'm pretty sure most of them would agree on the 'hippy' term. So as to speak, a form of sociologic objectivity. What's funny is that people develop/engage into new social memes as a mean to oppose to another norm (well at least in the field of sociolinguistics. i guess it's the same for any other praxis). It can even be an unconscious process In his study, Labov focused on realisations of the diphthongs [aw] and [ay] (as in mouse and mice). He interviewed a number of speakers drawn from different ages and ethnic groups on the island, and noted that among the younger (31-45 years) speakers a movement seemed to be taking place away from the pronunciations associated with the standard New England norms, and towards a pronunciation associated with conservative and characteristically Vineyard speakers, notably the Chilmark fishermen. The heaviest users of this type of pronunciation were young men who actively sought to identify themselves as Vineyarders, rejected the values of the mainland, and resented the encroachment of wealthy summer visitors on the traditional island way of life. Thus, these speakers seem to be exploiting the resources of the non-standard dialect. The pattern emerged despite extensive exposure of speakers to the educational system; some college educated boys from Martha's Vineyard were extremely heavy users of the vernacular vowels. To summarise: On Martha's Vineyard a small group of fishermen began to exaggerate a tendency already existing in their speech. They did this seemingly subconsciously, in order to establish themselves as an independent social group with superior status to the despised summer visitors. A number of other islanders regarded this group as one which epitomised old virtues and desirable values, and subconsciously imitated the way its members talked. For these people, the new pronunciation was an innovation. As more and more people came to speak in the same way, the innovation gradually became the norm for those living on the island. If one felt the need to 'check my qualifications' I am interested in such anti-consumerist/anti-globalist (or representative democracy) organizations such as: -really really free market The problem with really really free market is that corporations(~) pursue maximization of profit without regards to long-term consequences that jeopardize our environment (for the mere fact that it don't have immediate financial repercussions). So at one point, you need to turn these negative long-term consequences into something with immediate effects : that's where taxes/tax deductions, laws about cleaner technologies, etc have a role to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 If one felt the need to 'check my qualifications' I am interested in such anti-consumerist/anti-globalist (or representative democracy) organizations such as: -really really free market The problem with really really free market is that corporations(~) pursue maximization of profit without regards to long-term consequences that jeopardize our environment (for the mere fact that it don't have immediate financial repercussions). So at one point, you need to turn these negative long-term consequences into something with immediate effects : that's where taxes/tax deductions, laws about cleaner technologies, etc have a role to play. you are talking about the gift economy organization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Really_Really_Free_Market right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 If one felt the need to 'check my qualifications' I am interested in such anti-consumerist/anti-globalist (or representative democracy) organizations such as: -really really free market The problem with really really free market is that corporations(~) pursue maximization of profit without regards to long-term consequences that jeopardize our environment (for the mere fact that it don't have immediate financial repercussions). So at one point, you need to turn these negative long-term consequences into something with immediate effects : that's where taxes/tax deductions, laws about cleaner technologies, etc have a role to play. you are talking about the gift economy organization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Really_Really_Free_Market right? oh i was talking about free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 hah! easy mistake to make. no issue though. really really free market is a nice way to get some cool free clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Helper ET Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 also wtf salvatorin aren't you supposed to be some kind of hippy ? If you want i can withdraw my "capitalism/liberalism" and replace it with "globalization". tree wars VI: return of the hippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 See Babar - your mistake is assuming that I am a proponent of the free market. I am not. I do however, recognize that human inventions have contributed a great deal to our current standard of living. Human inventions even let ass-clowns like ET and troon spout nonsense ad nauseum. Invention has been ongoing since man evolved opposable thumbs. It's fairly obvious that unfettered free markets lead to monopolies and fascism - they even teach that in any decent micro-economics introductory course. You could easily demonize globalization - but then again, without it, the Bellville three wouldn't have heard Kraftwerk, and then Aphex wouldn't have heard the Belleville three. Also which phase of globalization do you want to pick on? It's been going on for quite some time....we could pick 1000 BCE for example, with Homer's "Odysseus", or we could pick 1 CE, with Roman trade routes... of course there's also the view that globalization is not some fixed point or end-state, rather it is an ongoing set of complex processes with ever-changing and unpredictable forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 you've clearly defended capitalism on several occasions (mostly to confront Troon to his own contradictions - his views vs. posting from a computer). It is regrettable that, among the Rights of Man, the right of contradicting oneself has been forgotten. - Charles Baudelaire I learnt that globalization started around the XVI/XVII century with triangular trade and the discovery that our world was a round rock (hence the stem global (well more or less)). from wiki The United Nations ESCWA says globalization "is a widely-used term that can be defined in a number of different ways. When used in an economic context, it refers to the reduction and removal of barriers between national borders in order to facilitate the flow of goods, capital, services and labour... although considerable barriers remain to the flow of labor... Globalization is not a new phenomenon. It began towards the end of the nineteenth century, but it slowed down during the period from the start of the First World War until the third quarter of the twentieth century. This slowdown can be attributed to the inward-looking policies pursued by a number of countries in order to protect their respective industries... however, the pace of globalization picked up rapidly during the fourth quarter of the twentieth century..."[6] ahhh found a nice chart that seems picture this http://www.norges-bank.no/upload/import/front/pakke/en/foredrag/2006/2006-04-06/charts/chart1.png anyway, I wasn't using the words globalization, liberalism or capitalism in their scientific meaning. But you know what I'm talking about : industrialisation, creation of big conglomerates, urbanisation, intensive farming (animal and vegetable) and fishing, global warming etc … all of this impose a huge stress on species, hence the current extinction. And this is really a shame because lifeforms are the most valuable stuff on earth. "Well, let's clone them". No. At the moment clones=retards. It's not that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hautlle Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 in this way, troon's polemical manner of encouraging universalism, moral absolutism, and possibly anti-teleology implies that the far left is just as susceptible to argument ad populum as any other socio-political subgrouping. AND THUS THE DOCTRINE OF bBydYdjuuLön WAS ESTABLISHED edit: I also couldn't help but lol @ the fact that Babar linked to the "Journal of Cosmology". They're the ones that released the claims of fossilized alien life found in a carbonaceous meteorite. Interesting articles otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 in this way, troon's polemical manner of encouraging universalism, moral absolutism, and possibly anti-teleology implies that the far left is just as susceptible to argument ad populum as any other socio-political subgrouping. AND THUS THE DOCTRINE OF bBydYdjuuLön WAS ESTABLISHED edit: I also couldn't help but lol @ the fact that Babar linked to the "Journal of Cosmology". They're the ones that released the claims of fossilized alien life found in a carbonaceous meteorite. Interesting articles otherwise lol yeah, i noticed that (hence the lol in parenthesis). I linked it because it contains a lot of references, and because of this paragraph. What differentiates the current mass extinction from all previous major and minor extinction events is the human impact on the conditions that lead to or prevent biotic recovery and diversification. Without intent or conscious design, humanity is altering the evolutionary process that generates new species (Meyers & Knoll, 2001). The Holocene Extinction Event is marked by the proliferation and global migration of humans[WTF?] (Ehrlich & Ehrlich, 2008; McKee, 2009), the development of agriculture (and the beginnings of metabolic rift), and the intensification of production and consumption stemming from the development of industrialization and capitalism (Foster, 2005, 2002, 1999; Moore, 2000). Our collective behavior as a species in terms of biotic and ecosystem impacts is the equivalent of multiple bolide impacts in conjunction with climate change. we're doing an ecocide. Ever heard about that Peruvian(?) lost civilization that mismanaged its resources and subsequently disappeared ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvatorin Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 in this way, troon's polemical manner of encouraging universalism, moral absolutism, and possibly anti-teleology implies that the far left is just as susceptible to argument ad populum as any other socio-political subgrouping. AND THUS THE DOCTRINE OF bBydYdjuuLön WAS ESTABLISHED edit: I also couldn't help but lol @ the fact that Babar linked to the "Journal of Cosmology". They're the ones that released the claims of fossilized alien life found in a carbonaceous meteorite. Interesting articles otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 you've clearly defended capitalism on several occasions (mostly to confront Troon to his own contradictions - his views vs. posting from a computer). It is regrettable that, among the Rights of Man, the right of contradicting oneself has been forgotten. - Charles Baudelaire I learnt that globalization started around the XVI/XVII century with triangular trade and the discovery that our world was a round rock (hence the stem global (well more or less)). from wiki The United Nations ESCWA says globalization "is a widely-used term that can be defined in a number of different ways. When used in an economic context, it refers to the reduction and removal of barriers between national borders in order to facilitate the flow of goods, capital, services and labour... although considerable barriers remain to the flow of labor... Globalization is not a new phenomenon. It began towards the end of the nineteenth century, but it slowed down during the period from the start of the First World War until the third quarter of the twentieth century. This slowdown can be attributed to the inward-looking policies pursued by a number of countries in order to protect their respective industries... however, the pace of globalization picked up rapidly during the fourth quarter of the twentieth century..."[6] ahhh found a nice chart that seems picture this http://www.norges-bank.no/upload/import/front/pakke/en/foredrag/2006/2006-04-06/charts/chart1.png anyway, I wasn't using the words globalization, liberalism or capitalism in their scientific meaning. But you know what I'm talking about : industrialisation, creation of big conglomerates, urbanisation, intensive farming (animal and vegetable) and fishing, global warming etc … all of this impose a huge stress on species, hence the current extinction. And this is really a shame because lifeforms are the most valuable stuff on earth. "Well, let's clone them". No. At the moment clones=retards. It's not that easy. Yeah I like some aspects of capitalism. Does that mean I thin kit should be completely unregulated? Hell no. Regulation is a necessary aspect of capitalism in order to prevent the abuses that happened at the beginning of the twentieth century. Additionally, capitalism is a useful tool for economic growth - but it is not a social platform. I do believe that the government has a responsibility for its citizens over corporations. I just have to laugh at the people who protest against globalization in all forms while reaping the benefits of it. Why not post a graph that compares population growth with species extinction rate? As to your chart about globalization increases - yes of course, because you're introducing more economies into the global economy. For advanced economies though - look at the charts attached - little bit different. And your choice of quote is cute as well. Here's some more Baudelaire: It is necessary to work, if not from inclination, at least from despair. Everything considered, work is less boring than amusing oneself Although I suppose it would be natural for a Marxist to contradict himself, seeing as Marx criticized the capitalist economy while living off allowances from Engels, whose father owned a factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 It is necessary to work, if not from inclination, at least from despair. Everything considered, work is less boring than amusing oneself It is regrettable that, among the Rights of Man, the right of contradicting oneself has been forgotten. - Charles Baudelaire Baudelaire was a bourgeois. He inherited some big pile of money, had it more or less confiscated at some point, but I don't think he ever really worked (apart from literary works). also as i said, i don't know much about economics, and I chose to post the chart because it seemed to illustrate the extract from wikipidia. But well, I'm cute, it's okay, I'm a child you can give me a tap on the head (good ol patronizing capitalism lol). I don't really want to talk about economics (but i'm listening). So how do you explain the sudden species extinct ? and Why not post a graph that compares population growth with species extinction rate? that's a good start i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I would put forward the argument that the discovery of petroleum is most reponsible for the advancement of society + economic growth - not capitalism necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The population growth has a much bigger effect on species extinction rate. More humans - more land, more mouths to feed. Solution - cull the humans. Problem - where do you start? My suggestion is the BoC subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babar Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 so to you it really is just a volume problem and it's in no way related to the way we product goods (and treat them once they turn into garbage) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Jesus you love putting words in a person's mouth don't you. The population growth is the biggest problem. The means by which we produce things and dispose of them are problematic, but they pale in significance to the population issue. "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 population number 1 issue, for global warming, reduction in standard of living, rising prices of commodities and land. And on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.