Meditation

[chim]

I am resurrecting this thread because meditation is awesome. I had kind of a breakthrough last weekend. This was partially because of Chimera Slot Mom's reminders that meditation is great, so thanks dude!

 

The breakthrough was that I was erring on the side of control in meditation, and forgetting that it's about a kind of peaceful surrender. The brain can do whatever it wants as long as you let it be & don't get pulled by it. It's a very subtle thing until you feel it. I don't think I would be able to feel the difference without hundreds of times of trying to meditate & becoming more anxious & less at peace.

 

That is great to hear, congratulations! I read about your struggles in the work out thread and was considering whether to write something in regards to that. But I thought it is something best figured out on your own, and as it turns out I was right! Many times when we think we are doing it wrong, we are not.

 

I didn't notice that this thread was older than I thought but I will reply with this text anyway, in case someone else is looking for advice.

 

*Doubts whether it can actually work or being another result of the placebo effect or at worse a scam people invented to get as much money as possible from other people.

*The connection with any religions and/or cults etc. which have no purpose or meaning in my life.

 

Meditation has been around for as long as human beings have been around. It is not a scam. The scam is when people say you need to buy something or follow a specific method or code of ethics in order to do it. Religious groups appropriate certain forms of dancing and singing but you don't consider those inherent cult activities, do you?

 

1. The reason I decided to give meditation a try is because I've heard you can be greatly benefited if you got stress, panic attack, insomnia, concentration, low attention span, depression issues and even boost your creativity/productivity. Is that true? Could I be benefited from it?

 

It will obliterate all and any negativity no matter how deep and stubborn it is. I am usually very cautious in answering this question because it makes it sound like snake oil, but that's just what it does. It's pure healing.

 

The price to pay for that is a regular commitment to do it and gradually trade off the mental or circumstantial obstacles that might be in the way. The positive effect begins on a mental level which might easily be confused with a mild placebo, but eventually your entire body begins to respond. There's just no way around this when you experience it, and the fact that people get down to it all over the globe should attest to something even if you haven't gotten around to it yourself.

 

2. Most importantly, where do I start? I'd really appreciate if someone could recommend me a decent site I could check and follow directions. Or even a video series / dvd I could watch.

 

Fundamentally, there are two kinds of meditation.

 

The first kind is a type of concentration or visualization, in which the purpose is to connect with something, a certain state of mind for instance. Some people use this to explore their imagination and different symbols. It's very jungian. You can use mantras or various types of visualizations for this, and if it sounds like your cup of tea, google your way around. Every type of meditation "method" involves this type of meditation.

 

In the second kind, there is no purpose but to be. The goal, if you will, is simply to be with no strings attached.

 

I am more experienced with the latter and I would recommend it because it is simple and does the trick. It appears very, very difficult at first, but as you practice and deepen it, your perspective changes and much of the confusion regarding "how to do it" is needless.

 

The best way to start, in my experience, is to count your breath. Count from one to five, count on the out-breath. Keep the breath loose, free and relaxed and do not concern yourself with how well you are counting. If you lose track of the breath, start over. It is not a contest.

 

With practice you will get a hold of how it works, because you feel calmer and more pleasant. At some point you might consider the act of counting a needless disturbance, and you won't have to count. There is no need to keep track of anything, because the purpose is nothing more than experiencing your being as it is.

 

At that point you can follow the breath, which is even simpler than it sounds but can probably be deepened over a lifetime. Let thoughts and events circulate freely as the air and they become loose, without substance or any need for worry. Do this often enough and you will experience complete quiet; no thoughts, no emotions. You might not think it is anything special at first, beyond a short break in the habit of expectations and worries, but with time, a fire grows out of that quiet.

 

I would recommend that you give it at least a couple of weeks of regular practice. Start out light and simple, even if it involves counting your breath for 5 minutes before bed-time, but make a commitment to keep it up. If you enjoy it, you will naturally find the urge to extend the intervals and explore sitting postures that work for you.

[J3FF3R00]

My mother-in-law meditates every day. She isn't religious, it's just a part of her daily routine.

She shared this book with me...

 

I tried it for a while.

I didn't finish the book, but it's basically a guide to successful meditiation practise.

 

From what I got out of it, the main idea is to be focused on your "breath" or breathing and, by doing so successfully, you can let all other thoughts come and go without letting them effect your meditation.

 

I am a very ansty person, so it didn't stick with me, but sometimes when I'm feeling axiety or accute stress, I focus intensely on my breathing and it does calm me down.

 

My personal meditation routine basically is listening to my J.S. Bach pandora station in a magma-hot bath 2-3 times a week. I reccommend this.

Edited November 8, 2012 by jefferoo

[granty]

Here's a good start, Gil Fronsdal's introduction to mediation talks - which have a 20 minute guided session at the end of each talk:

 

http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

 

This stuff doesn't belong to Buddhism by the way, nor does it make you a Buddhist, it's just a life skill based on fundamental human truths that happens to be explained very well by the Buddha.

[Macca]

simple instructions:

 

good chat:

Edited November 9, 2012 by Macca

[TRiP]

i'm very tempted to start meditating and incorporate it into my daily schedule...just wondering if there is any difference in meditating at the beginning, half-way, late part of the day? In my head, i'd love to have it as an early morning thing I do after I wake up - but then i might still be so sleepy and tired that I'll just zone out to sleep rather then meditating...thoughts?

Also - i live in the city and my bedroom has terrible noise cancellation from the busy streets outside - would it make sense to try have some ambience/white noise type sound playing in order to remove the distraction factor...or would it be beneficial in trying to develop a meditation 'callus'?

[Guest Rabid]

i'm very tempted to start meditating and incorporate it into my daily schedule...just wondering if there is any difference in meditating at the beginning, half-way, late part of the day? In my head, i'd love to have it as an early morning thing I do after I wake up - but then i might still be so sleepy and tired that I'll just zone out to sleep rather then meditating...thoughts?

Personally I meditate both in the morning and in the evening. Meditation helps me clear out a lot of the morning fog I get after waking up, and it also calms down my mind and helps me fall asleep faster. If you only have time to meditate once per day, then just consider which of those two factors is more important to you.

 

Also - i live in the city and my bedroom has terrible noise cancellation from the busy streets outside - would it make sense to try have some ambience/white noise type sound playing in order to remove the distraction factor...or would it be beneficial in trying to develop a meditation 'callus'?

I found that after doing this for a while, I've developed pretty strong concentration while I meditate. External things rarely disturb me - my attention during the practice is strongly focused inwards.

[Morpheus]

i'm very tempted to start meditating and incorporate it into my daily schedule...just wondering if there is any difference in meditating at the beginning, half-way, late part of the day? In my head, i'd love to have it as an early morning thing I do after I wake up - but then i might still be so sleepy and tired that I'll just zone out to sleep rather then meditating...thoughts?

 

Also - i live in the city and my bedroom has terrible noise cancellation from the busy streets outside - would it make sense to try have some ambience/white noise type sound playing in order to remove the distraction factor...or would it be beneficial in trying to develop a meditation 'callus'?

I have been meditating for a few years now, sporadically though (a few days on, a few days off, etc.) I would probably benefit from sticking to it a little more and do it every day... anyway I have found though when first starting, if you are really tired, it might make more sense to sleep or rest for a bit instead of meditating (or following the breath until you fall asleep), then try sitting in mediation when you aren't completely exhausted. Once you do it a few more times, you'll quickly better know what works for you.

 

As for outside noises and distractions, unless its painfully loud, try to just sit with it. Adding more white noise might lull you to sleep. Trying to block out distracting stimuli is a losing game in meditation... even in a silent room you'll notice other sounds, and your thoughts, etc. But the nice part is, once you stop trying to block out certain noises or thoughts, they aren't as bothersome. And the sounds can even help bring you to the present if your mind wanders off.

 

Btw it might also be different depending on what kind of meditation practice you are into. I started with mindfulness meditation (see the link that kiani posted at the beginning of the thread), and then I got into zen meditation (if you are interested, the book 3 pillars of zen is a solid background/how-to).

[granty]

To start out I'd say do it in the morning, if you have to choose one over the other, there's less going on in your head so you'll get to that place of silence faster. Once you're familiar with that place and how it feels you'll be able to find it more easily when you're mind's spinning away from the day's events.

 

Total silence would be nice and probably make it easier to focus on your breath, but external noises can help because you can observe them too and witness your physical and mental reactions to them, giving you more opportunities to practice being with your body letting go of thoughts. This is a good skill to learn, because you can take your meditation 'off the cushion' and practice basically anywhere in any situation.

[plstik]

Here's a good start, Gil Fronsdal's introduction to mediation talks - which have a 20 minute guided session at the end of each talk:

 

http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

 

This stuff doesn't belong to Buddhism by the way, nor does it make you a Buddhist, it's just a life skill based on fundamental human truths that happens to be explained very well by the Buddha.

 

Came here to post this, I´m doing one of their online meditation courses right now. The talks are a great introduction and mostly focussing on the actual practice and not so much on the b-word.

[granty]

Cool, those talks made the most sense to me when I started. I like Gil's honest and simple explanations, without using all of that confusing Buddhist terminology. How's the course working out for you?

[plstik]

I´ve tried to meditate every once in a while, with the course I try to do something around 10-30min every day. So far I only managed to do 5 days a week though. I almost have to force myself to do it too, but I´m glad every time I make it. My life has been pretty busy for the last couple of months, so this is a nice distraction and helps a lot to stay focused. But it´s hard to find the time for it, because I´m also going jogging for about an hour every second day or so...which is more important to me tbh.

I was to late to sign up for a teacher (they offer chat/skype sessions free of charge), but the talks alone and daily suggestions are a huge help. I also feel like I´m doing it right this time...kinda hard to explain.

[Guest skibby]

meditation is yoga, yoga is union, when the fluctuations of the mind cease, the seer (the witness) abides in its true nature.

 

in other words, meditation means to stop thinking. the practice of meditation is the practice of stopping the thought process, at will.

 

this is what some psychiatric meditation tries to do for you, but we intrinsically have the ability to stop thinking.

 

its difficult to do it on your own, thats why it can be necessary for one to have a teacher (guru) or a psychiatrist.

 

if that was not clear and simple to understand, here's a different angle, but a little more radical:

[plstik]

meditation is yoga, yoga is union, when the fluctuations of the mind cease, the seer (the witness) abides in its true nature.

 

in other words, meditation means to stop thinking. the practice of meditation is the practice of stopping the thought process, at will.

 

this is what some psychiatric meditation tries to do for you, but we intrinsically have the ability to stop thinking.

 

its difficult to do it on your own, thats why it can be necessary for one to have a teacher (guru) or a psychiatrist.

 

if that was not clear and simple to understand, here's a different angle, but a little more radical:

 

 

 

funny, if it´s one thing I have learned from the course so far it´s that meditation is the opposite of stopping to think and quieting the mind. It might be hairsplitting, but through meditation you are fully aware of what´s going on in your mind, body, surroundings. However you learn not to react to those sensations, thoughts etc. Which essentially is what being "mindful" means.

[may be rude]

sometimes some kind of christian tries to sell me on their religion and i love to counter with a zen pitch. zen is so simple to teach. there are different schools, but a sizable and respected school considers zen to just be zen meditation and zen meditation to just be 1) breathing deeply 2) focusing on your breathing 3) having a strait back. that's it. as other thoughts enter your mind, don't struggle, just try to observe them, let them pass, and guide your focus back to your breathing. i've integrated it into my daily activities. i should get back into proper sessions, sitting on the edge of a cliff looking over a coastal city as the sun rises behind it, doing a good half hour or hour. i stopped real sessions a while ago, probably because of some psychic block, energy would build up and i felt like it had nowhere to go, it was unpleasant. now i think i could blow through that. probably i'll play quake with my bonus daylight savings hour today, though.

Edited November 3, 2013 by very honest

[TRiP]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts - I just had my first 30 minute meditation attempt a while ago - it was nice. I just sat on the floor with the recording Skibby posted playing in the background - I think the talking helped distort my interpretation of time, as i'm someone who if I know an alarm will go off in X minutes i'm almost constantly expecting it, so it was good to fog that over

 

one thing that was bothering me throughout the time - my sitting position, I was slightly agitated, wondering if it was the correct posture or if what I was doing was possibly harming my body etc.

I'm a tall enough lad, 6'4 - i was sitting in the crossed lotus position (not the extreme one, the easier one) and once I got up after my time, my ankles we're prettty sore + my knee joints and parts of the leg. My back naturally slouches - might it be beneficial to sit against a flat wall? Or does anyone have any suggestions? (i saw someone mentioned laying on their back -but i'd prefer to try sit)

[may be rude]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts - I just had my first 30 minute meditation attempt a while ago - it was nice. I just sat on the floor with the recording Skibby posted playing in the background - I think the talking helped distort my interpretation of time, as i'm someone who if I know an alarm will go off in X minutes i'm almost constantly expecting it, so it was good to fog that over

 

one thing that was bothering me throughout the time - my sitting position, I was slightly agitated, wondering if it was the correct posture or if what I was doing was possibly harming my body etc.

 

I'm a tall enough lad, 6'4 - i was sitting in the crossed lotus position (not the extreme one, the easier one) and once I got up after my time, my ankles we're prettty sore + my knee joints and parts of the leg. My back naturally slouches - might it be beneficial to sit against a flat wall? Or does anyone have any suggestions? (i saw someone mentioned laying on their back -but i'd prefer to try sit)

 

yeah you could lean against a wall, or even sit in a chair. you could sit on a bunch of pillows or on a bed. having a strait back is important, but if you have back issues that make it really painful you can do it without a strait back.

 

congrats on doing it.

 

maybe i will later today out in the woods on this pad i have, before the weather starts getting real cold

Edited November 3, 2013 by very honest

[plstik]

yeah, finding the right position is hard. I can´t really bend my knees or anything crazy, so I just sit on a chair. Being in an alert position is good, just try to find like a center of gravity around your belly that you can balance on, kind of like this:

Then just keep your back straight and try not to slouch. It takes a couple of sessions until you can sit for longer, so just stay put.

[granty]

Keeping your back straight when you're on the floor is hell. Do yourself a favour and stack some cushions up and sit on them, doing the half lotus position instead. That thing about palms upwards with fingers touching is pointless I think too. Just find something that leaves you comfy yet alert, less likely to fall asleep. A kitchen chair works just as well.

[TRiP]

Yo guys - what's everyones take on TM (Transcendental Meditation)?

I see people have briefly spoken about it before, but i'd like peoples opinions on it

the reason I ask - It seems I could do the course for €300, as opposed to €600 (i'm on job seekers allowance, so there is a discount)

 

wondering if it's the best time to give it a try while I can take advantage of the cheaper rate? Or is it a waste of money? I'm fairly tempted...

Edited November 6, 2013 by TRiP

[may be rude]

there are worse things to spend money on. tm was made big by maharishi mahesh yogi, who, as i understand it, had a gift for giving people their own personalized mantras, which would make them "break through" as soon as he told it to them. he's dead now, and tm is a huge organization. that's all i know.

[granty]

Mike Love from the Beach Boys is into TM, he's also a massive cunt by all accounts. It all sounds a bit like new age quackery to me, I like my practice bedded in common sense. I'm sure TM has benefits though.

[Guest Shit Attack]

yea i read brian wilsons book one time (that was supposedly really written by his psychiatrist but who cares) and he said the mantra the maharishi gave him was eye may mah or something but he didnt get into like mike love did. Supposedly there are dudes like the maharishi all over india etc but he was the clever one who clicked onto charging westerners top dollar for the info.............i do think theres something to meditation tho but it should be free. have tried the nam myo renge kyo buddhist thing before was kinda interesting but maybe didnt do it long enough, think u really need to put the time in to get the benefits

 

 

[granty]

I read that book too, good wasn't it? Yeah, generally I'm wary of anything or anyone who offers the quick, secret, expensive solution to inner peace. That covers scientology, the maharishi yogi and unicorn piss anti aging balm.

[granty]

BTW that chanting stuff - seems to me like something else to develop your concentration. You could do that using your breath / body sensations etc and get the same results.

[Guest Shit Attack]

yeah maybe, i think it has something to do with vibrations or something if you keep repeating the same phrase over and over again , it was an interesting thing to do for a bit anyways ..... i actually only tried it because some taxi driver dude was going on about how he could "bend reality" by chanting and he made me take the nam myo renge kyo card before they dropped us off ........kind of wanted to ask him why he was still driving a taxi if he can bend reality but there you go.