kaini Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 wellllll it's a bell curve. most people aren't going to be lawless murderers in the future because they're not mental, and can recognize the difference between the context of a virtual world and the context of the real world they and other people exist in. but not everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Al Hounos Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 There's an interesting discussion about the taboo of sex in entertainment vs violence in entertainment somewhere in here. not really, this is in a whole different league. this isn't sex or violence, it's sexual violence, against children no less, and that's the most abhorrent crime there is in any culture. the game is a symptom of a very sick otaku subculture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 but it glorifies the action within a certain context. Are kids who grew up in the 80s-90s hungry for fruit from playing pacman? Do people get urges to force people to wet themselves from playing the sims? Maybe they have strong subconscious urges to collect gold coins/rings and jump on people's heads because it was glorified in a simluated scenario they participated in? Why do video games only promote things when those things are taboo? People arent going to be lawless murderers in the future because people are intelligent and can recognize the difference between the context of a virtual world and the context of the real world they and other people exist in. The Pac Man and other retro game analogies don't really work, because those were completely abstract surrealism with no context, more in line with something like Checkers where you have a specific ruleset with a vague graphical representation. Games today are very photorealistic depictions of warfare or gang violence with no sense of consequence other than having to replay the last minute and a half of the game if you miss a few shots and don't hide behind a rock long enough for your magic life to refill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 But the idea of the "pavaolivan" goal-reward system encouraging the act. The mind still interprets the object as fruit, gold coins, etc, just as a person associates the abstact arrangement of polygons on their screen as a person. If the pacman fruit was photorealistic but the goal-reward system was the same, would that make any difference? Perhaps if pacman looked like a real person and you played the game in first person. How about now? Where's the line? fighting games look photorealistic and "promote" beating the shit out of someone, but for some reason theyre never to blame for anything. And kaini's right, there are going to be a handful of people who cant make the distinction or will lose the ability to be able to. But that is not the fault of the video games so much as it is the fault of the person. We cant say girls are to blame when some emo kid goes on a shooting spree because his girlfriend dumped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 But the idea of the "pavaolivan" goal-reward system encouraging the act. The mind still interprets the object as fruit, gold coins, etc, just as a person associates the abstact arrangement of polygons on their screen as a person. If the pacman fruit was photorealistic but the goal-reward system was the same, would that make any difference? Perhaps if pacman looked like a real person and you played the game in first person. How about now? And kaini's right, there are going to be a handful of people who cant make the distinction or will lose the ability to be able to. But that is not the fault of the video games so much as it is the fault of the person. We cant say girls are to blame when some emo kid goes on a shooting spree because his girlfriend dumped him. Yes, actually I would say that if Pac Man was a photorealistic game where the objective was to eat fruit, and it rewarded the player for eating fruit, then that game is pro-eating-fruit. That really just backs up my earlier statement that shooters are pro-murder on account of the fact that they say "Here's an obstacle that you must overcome through murder. Kill and you'll get your reward, be it the next level, 5 exp points, or the satisfaction that you bested some punks on Xbox live." Perhaps I was wording it strangely, but my original point was that the violent, graphic killing in modern games is the dot eating of old games, and the subconcious enjoyment and satisfaction of the twitch-gameplay-job-well-done is the same. However, I find it hard to believe there's not some wires getting crossed subconciously when the imagery on the screen as a reward for the dot eating is this: And I'd say it's the same for anything, really. Fighting games still glorify violence in the same way, I never implied that this was something shooter exclusive, just used it as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 but it glorifies the action within a certain context. Are kids who grew up in the 80s-90s hungry for fruit from playing pacman? Do people get urges to force people to wet themselves from playing the sims? Maybe they have strong subconscious urges to collect gold coins/rings and jump on people's heads because it was glorified in a simluated scenario they participated in? Why do video games only promote things when those things are taboo? People arent going to be lawless murderers in the future because people are intelligent and can recognize the difference between the context of a virtual world and the context of the real world they and other people exist in. The Pac Man and other retro game analogies don't really work sure, but the more recent games in the GTA series provide a near perfect counterexample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iain C Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I want to know what Joshier makes of the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 wonders if this is the time to point out the best domain name ever: www.therapistfinder.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 *books appointment to see psycho the rapist* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rambo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 In a way you could just boil it down to saying: should everyone suffer because there's always a couple of dickheads or vulnerable people who are going react in an undesirable way to whatever it is you happen to be talking about (drugs, video games, whatever)? I want to know what Joshier makes of the whole thing. i can assure you he's concerned. He's just generally concerned tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 sure, but the more recent games in the GTA series provide a near perfect counterexample. elaborate please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzado Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 yegg, i dig your righteous indignation *waits with anticipation* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 In a way you could just boil it down to saying: should everyone suffer because there's always a couple of dickheads or vulnerable people who are going react in an undesirable way to whatever it is you happen to be talking about (drugs, video games, whatever)? yeeop ... + japan has low crime rates .. go figure ... maybe having things permissible in the abstract .. works to defrustrate and distract ... yanoe .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Wait, are we really having a debate over whether or not Japanese have the most pedophilia and rape-oriented sexual culture of industrialized nations? Of course they do. this was good for a semi-lol. GARGANTUAN AMERICAN PENIS. In a way you could just boil it down to saying: should everyone suffer because there's always a couple of dickheads or vulnerable people who are going react in an undesirable way to whatever it is you happen to be talking about (drugs, video games, whatever)? yeeop ... + japan has low crime rates .. go figure ... maybe having things permissible in the abstract .. works to defrustrate and distract ... yanoe .. pfft which is why in Tokyo they have to have separate subway cars for women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaini Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 *kills a prostitute* *runs over a gangbanger* *kicks the shit out of a crack dealer with a baseball bat* <blink>SoCial justice in effect</blink> <marquee>they're only pixels!</marquee> 24 HOURS IS 4 SEPARATE DIVISIONS ROTATION OF EARTH IS QUADRATIC PI IS NAZI INVENTION! YOUR BRAIN NEEDS IODINE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 yegg, i dig your righteous indignation strange thing is I think she's of Chinese ancestry, which means her grandmother could have been on the receiving end of a Japanese bayonet...but I guess the yellow-vs-white dynamic in the topic overrode that. Can't have crackers generalizing about the infamously perverted Japanese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegecow Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 i guess what i was trying to get at, is that attacking video games as a cause of present and future violence is like trimming a leaf off a weed in a garden that is rampantly overgrown. If you truly want to get to the cause of why people kill and rape others, you'll find that video games are nothing but a petty distraction from the real, deeply embedded problems that have been at large in society for hundred of thousands of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 And guns don't have anything to do with the problem either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autopilot Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 @42: I'm in complete agreement with you there. I'm not saying that video games are the cause of violence, I'm in no way qualified to make that conjecture, but the fact that this is our recreational form of entertainment a large chunk of society takes part in is quite absurd in itself. Especially considering that the medium originated with things like cute animals hopping on things, while now people will go from spouting a lengthy anti Bush admin's war speech to go home and boot up Modern Warfare in the Xbox. Also when you take into consideration a layman's level understanding of mental conditioning and stimulus-response, it's hard to deny that these games must be having some kind of subconcious effect, whatever that may be. There's also, of course, always a knee-jerk reaction to this discussion because it's such a popular past time that people feel personally attacked when that which they spend 5 hours a day doing is analyzed. I personally love video games, but I'd rather see more things like Braid and Rez and less juvenile shit like Killzone flooding the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 *kills zone* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Wait, are we really having a debate over whether or not Japanese have the most pedophilia and rape-oriented sexual culture of industrialized nations? Of course they do. this was good for a semi-lol. GARGANTUAN AMERICAN PENIS. In a way you could just boil it down to saying: should everyone suffer because there's always a couple of dickheads or vulnerable people who are going react in an undesirable way to whatever it is you happen to be talking about (drugs, video games, whatever)? yeeop ... + japan has low crime rates .. go figure ... maybe having things permissible in the abstract .. works to defrustrate and distract ... yanoe .. pfft which is why in Tokyo they have to have separate subway cars for women. it only takes one perv to ruin it for everyone .. and when they're sandwiched into those overcrowded trains well boners happn .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essines Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 lol yegg getting offended at some stupid internets sentiment that was just a lol after she posts broken_jar_in_ass.gif RIGHTEOUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 It's not just one perv delet, and it's not just subway boners. it's full on groping. and of course, Japanese people being who they are, the girls don't raise a scene. So, women only cars it is. I think it's only on the big lines and only at peak hours, but still.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delet... Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 oekae oekae ... nasty stuff then .. i guess a way to solve the problem would be to force the office men to carry two suitcases ... thereby keeping both hands busy rather than leaving them as currently .. with one to 'roam' freely ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpenprol Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Apparently you can go to brothels/clubs where they have imitation subway cars along with people playing the role of passengers; the girl you pick is somewhere in the midst of them and you can make your way to her and then grope to your heart's content. Was I reading that on watmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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