September 11 2001 Conspiracy Thread

[Eggs]

after beer pong im going to build 2 towers of empty beer cans and smack em down.

 

the spirits of the eagles and firemen did not cure my cold. im still sick. i was countin on you 9/11.

[Guest Richy]

interesting facts that are not conspiracies or speculation

 

 

- 2 of the hijackers lived at a naval air base in florida

- 1 of the hijackers went to school at US intelligence school called 'the defense language institute'

- we were performing multiple fake hijacking drills on the morning of 9/11 involving the FAA, Norad and Rudy Giuliani himself

- building 7 was announced as having collapsed by 2 news channels 45 minutes before collapsing

- donald rumsfeld signed an order 2 months before 9/11 that said that norad and other air defense had to get explicit permission from the vice president or secretary of defense to shoot down a hijacked or errant aircraft

- there were explicit war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan 6 months before 9/11

- there were helicopter missle attacks happening on the day of 9/11 in afghanistan against the taliban, to this day the US has claimed no involvement.

- Colin Powell promised to provide evidence of Bin Laden's involvement on 9/11, he never provided such evidence.

 

None of that proves or means anything.

[awepittance]

the problem is both viewpoints often seem to be knee jerking against each other,

 

i prefer to take the middle ground, that the 9/11 commission report is clearly a coverup and that there was never a true investigation. There were ample opportunities by countless officials in the administration to stop the attacks.

i admit that the report has as many holes as they claimed our intelligence infrastructure to have by why do you believe it is clearly a coverup?

 

there are many reasons why i think it was a coverup.

 

here are some interesting quotes by the people who wrote it

 

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

 

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ." 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting" Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up". The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission, who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

 

one thing that really gets me is that there was less federal money allocated for the 9/11 investigation than for the monica lewinsky affair

 

interesting facts that are not conspiracies or speculation

 

 

- 2 of the hijackers lived at a naval air base in florida

- 1 of the hijackers went to school at US intelligence school called 'the defense language institute'

- we were performing multiple fake hijacking drills on the morning of 9/11 involving the FAA, Norad and Rudy Giuliani himself

- building 7 was announced as having collapsed by 2 news channels 45 minutes before collapsing

- donald rumsfeld signed an order 2 months before 9/11 that said that norad and other air defense had to get explicit permission from the vice president or secretary of defense to shoot down a hijacked or errant aircraft

- there were explicit war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan 6 months before 9/11

- there were helicopter missle attacks happening on the day of 9/11 in afghanistan against the taliban, to this day the US has claimed no involvement.

- Colin Powell promised to provide evidence of Bin Laden's involvement on 9/11, he never provided such evidence.

 

None of that proves or means anything.

 

that's fine that you don't take anything away from that, i'm sure other people will

[beariksson]

Wow - I was looking for this too and missed it. There it is - 40 minutes early!!!

2001-09-11 16:40:35 Skytel [0001450] C ALPHA EVERYONE PLZ EVACUATE AREA OF W.T.C. NEAR 7 W.T.C. POSSOBILITY OF COLLAPSE

 

http://911.wikileaks.org

[essines]

the problem is both viewpoints often seem to be knee jerking against each other,

 

i prefer to take the middle ground, that the 9/11 commission report is clearly a coverup and that there was never a true investigation. There were ample opportunities by countless officials in the administration to stop the attacks.

i admit that the report has as many holes as they claimed our intelligence infrastructure to have by why do you believe it is clearly a coverup?

 

there are many reasons why i think it was a coverup.

 

here are some interesting quotes by the people who wrote it

 

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

 

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ." 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting" Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up". The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission, who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

 

interesting facts that are not conspiracies or speculation

 

 

- 2 of the hijackers lived at a naval air base in florida

- 1 of the hijackers went to school at US intelligence school called 'the defense language institute'

- we were performing multiple fake hijacking drills on the morning of 9/11 involving the FAA, Norad and Rudy Giuliani himself

- building 7 was announced as having collapsed by 2 news channels 45 minutes before collapsing

- donald rumsfeld signed an order 2 months before 9/11 that said that norad and other air defense had to get explicit permission from the vice president or secretary of defense to shoot down a hijacked or errant aircraft

- there were explicit war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan 6 months before 9/11

- there were helicopter missle attacks happening on the day of 9/11 in afghanistan against the taliban, to this day the US has claimed no involvement.

- Colin Powell promised to provide evidence of Bin Laden's involvement on 9/11, he never provided such evidence.

 

None of that proves or means anything.

 

that's fine that you don't take anything away from that, i'm sure other people

you didnt really address his point there....

[awepittance]

the problem is both viewpoints often seem to be knee jerking against each other,

 

i prefer to take the middle ground, that the 9/11 commission report is clearly a coverup and that there was never a true investigation. There were ample opportunities by countless officials in the administration to stop the attacks.

i admit that the report has as many holes as they claimed our intelligence infrastructure to have by why do you believe it is clearly a coverup?

 

there are many reasons why i think it was a coverup.

 

here are some interesting quotes by the people who wrote it

 

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

 

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ." 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting" Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up". The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission, who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

 

interesting facts that are not conspiracies or speculation

 

 

- 2 of the hijackers lived at a naval air base in florida

- 1 of the hijackers went to school at US intelligence school called 'the defense language institute'

- we were performing multiple fake hijacking drills on the morning of 9/11 involving the FAA, Norad and Rudy Giuliani himself

- building 7 was announced as having collapsed by 2 news channels 45 minutes before collapsing

- donald rumsfeld signed an order 2 months before 9/11 that said that norad and other air defense had to get explicit permission from the vice president or secretary of defense to shoot down a hijacked or errant aircraft

- there were explicit war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan 6 months before 9/11

- there were helicopter missle attacks happening on the day of 9/11 in afghanistan against the taliban, to this day the US has claimed no involvement.

- Colin Powell promised to provide evidence of Bin Laden's involvement on 9/11, he never provided such evidence.

 

None of that proves or means anything.

 

that's fine that you don't take anything away from that, i'm sure other people

you didnt really address his point there....

 

why i personally believe it's a cover up? which part? The list that Richy responded to was meant for other people to speculate, you can draw your own conclusions from that.

 

Although i will very strongly disagree that the fact that we had concrete war plans (next in our military que) to Afghanistan and topple the Taliban previous to 9/11 means nothing. To me it means that regardless of the 9/11 attacks we planned to go in anyways, so it's awfully convenient that the group who happened to attack us was the one we already planned to attack. To me it means that there wasn't really a real attempt made to find out who actually pulled off 9/11 instead we pointed the finger at Bin Laden on the actual day of 9/11, invaded Afghanistan 20 days later after they agreed to hand over bin laden to us as long as we provided evidence (which we did not)

[BCM]

the twin towers were actually two huge starships

[essines]

the problem is both viewpoints often seem to be knee jerking against each other,

 

i prefer to take the middle ground, that the 9/11 commission report is clearly a coverup and that there was never a true investigation. There were ample opportunities by countless officials in the administration to stop the attacks.

i admit that the report has as many holes as they claimed our intelligence infrastructure to have by why do you believe it is clearly a coverup?

 

there are many reasons why i think it was a coverup.

 

here are some interesting quotes by the people who wrote it

 

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

 

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ." 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting" Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up". The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission, who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

 

interesting facts that are not conspiracies or speculation

 

 

- 2 of the hijackers lived at a naval air base in florida

- 1 of the hijackers went to school at US intelligence school called 'the defense language institute'

- we were performing multiple fake hijacking drills on the morning of 9/11 involving the FAA, Norad and Rudy Giuliani himself

- building 7 was announced as having collapsed by 2 news channels 45 minutes before collapsing

- donald rumsfeld signed an order 2 months before 9/11 that said that norad and other air defense had to get explicit permission from the vice president or secretary of defense to shoot down a hijacked or errant aircraft

- there were explicit war plans for the invasion of Afghanistan 6 months before 9/11

- there were helicopter missle attacks happening on the day of 9/11 in afghanistan against the taliban, to this day the US has claimed no involvement.

- Colin Powell promised to provide evidence of Bin Laden's involvement on 9/11, he never provided such evidence.

 

None of that proves or means anything.

 

that's fine that you don't take anything away from that, i'm sure other people

you didnt really address his point there....

 

why i personally believe it's a cover up? which part? The list that Richy responded to was meant for other people to speculate, you can draw your own conclusions from that.

 

Although i will very strongly disagree that the fact that we had concrete war plans (next in our military que) to Afghanistan and topple the Taliban previous to 9/11 means nothing. To me it means that regardless of the 9/11 attacks we planned to go in anyways, so it's awfully convenient that the group who happened to attack us was the one we already planned to attack. To me it means that there wasn't really a real attempt made to find out who actually pulled off 9/11 instead we pointed the finger at Bin Laden on the actual day of 9/11, invaded Afghanistan 20 days later after they agreed to hand over bin laden to us as long as we provided evidence (which we did not)

I do agree with you, i was just playing the devils advocate. I like to know what kind of info i am dealing with.

[Guest Scrambled Ears]

its interesting and the condi interview is disturbing undoubtedly but I'm on the fence about the whole thing mainly because I find conspiracy theorists to be the type of people who take a perspective and run with it destroying any shred of integrity concerning the facts. furthermore I just don't see how that administration would be logistically capable of a international inter-departmental cover-up of that scale though I am certain that they had much more information than they want the public to believe and perhaps even went out of their way to convolute communication between the FBI, CIA, and NSA of one another. The jump from here to they planned/allowed 9/11 is where I'm hesitant. Of course hiding this after the fact is logical politically. The GOP is fucked as it is...i doubt they wanted to be the administration to bury the party indefinitely (though it was rather inevitable once we invaded iraq).

 

edit: i do appreciate the fact based approach though...speculation is rather worthless concerning these things imo

[vamos scorcho]

don't you think it's at least a tiny bit strange that we're all sort of just sitting around accepting everything as it is? it just feels kind of fake to me. these small things just go over most of our heads. those people in those pictures holding signs - they take pride in their ability to keep going with these thoughts. even if the thoughts are wrong, are they not doing at least something about it? we do nothing.

 

for a split second there i saw it:

that we're all so absorbed in our own minute to minute lives - we fail to grasp the bigger picture.

 

now it's gone.

 

anyway, i sometimes feel like we could do more instead of the constant arguing amongst ourselves, internet browsing, and painful work days.

 

 

the 9/11 theories have truth inside of them. there are certainly holes. to say it was a government coverup or conspiracy of some kind is not the right way.

however, i do have my own personal suspicions.

 

it really does hurt my head.

[awepittance]

its interesting and the condi interview is disturbing undoubtedly but I'm on the fence about the whole thing mainly because I find conspiracy theorists to be the type of people who take a perspective and run with it destroying any shred of integrity concerning the facts. furthermore I just don't see how that administration would be logistically capable of a international inter-departmental cover-up of that scale though I am certain that they had much more information than they want the public to believe and perhaps even went out of their way to convolute communication between the FBI, CIA, and NSA of one another. The jump from here to they planned/allowed 9/11 is where I'm hesitant. Of course hiding this after the fact is logical politically. The GOP is fucked as it is...i doubt they wanted to be the administration to bury the party indefinitely (though it was rather inevitable once we invaded iraq).

 

edit: i do appreciate the fact based approach though...speculation is rather worthless concerning these things imo

 

check out that movie i posted 9/11 press for truth, i appreciate it because it does no speculative leaps nor is it really even conspiratorial. It basically focuses on 4 9/11 widows who sat through and hoped during the 9/11 comission that their questions would be answered. They ended up being pretty horrified and cynical about the whole experience, in their mind the 9/11 attacks were not investigated but conveniently covered up so that no one would take the blame.

edit: these are the same 9/11 victims that Glenn Beck said he now 'hates' the ones that actually put fire to the feet of government officials who didn't care

[Guest Richy]

The US administration were pretty aware of the activities of Osama Bin Laden, his followers and the Taliban in Afghanistan way before 9/11 happened. To not have any pre determined military planning would just be foolish.

 

Plus I think Bush & Co had already decided before 9/11 that they were going to undertake some form of military intervention in that region. Afghanistan and Iraq were the two most obvious choices, Afghanistan probably the easier option as it was more of a failed state, no real military to speak of. And during that time had gained significant notoriety as being a country ruled by a bunch of murderous fucks, and so would be perhaps an easier sell.

 

It would have happened eventually, with or without 9/11

 

I have yet to hear a single argument or reason that has even remotely convinced me that 9/11 was nothing more than a terrorist plot carried out by a bunch of deluded extremists.

 

It's nice to indulge the mind in conspiracy theories once in a while, but if you really think about it, it just doesnt make sense.

[awepittance]

the "war on terror" has been going on for the best part of 60 years

 

unless your part of the project for new american century, this sentence doesn't jive with the mainstream opinion of what the war on terror means. thats fine that you have your own definition of it but to say that i fail at history for using it to mean the war proposed by the george w bush administration is silly

 

 

It would have happened eventually, with or without 9/11

 

you really think we would have put over 300,000 troops into those regions and spent 1 trillion dollars without 9/11 ? I definitely can't see that happening.

[Guest Scrambled Ears]

It basically focuses on 4 9/11 widows who sat through and hoped during the 9/11 comission that their questions would be answered. They ended up being pretty horrified and cynical about the whole experience, in their mind the 9/11 attacks were not investigated but conveniently covered up so that no one would take the blame.

edit: these are the same 9/11 victims that Glenn Beck said he now 'hates' the ones that actually put fire to the feet of government officials who didn't care

 

heh ya pretty much anytime common people get a window to the inner workings of government/politics they end up being horrified. anyway who would be the proper scapegoat for thousands murdered? It would be a witch hunt of colossal proportions. Not to say I don't believe there could be any worth/repentance... but out of personal experience and from my brief studies in law i've pretty much concluded for myself that crime and punishment is more or less an intrinsically fucked endless cycle of retribution (samsara as the buddhists say).

 

Glenn Beck is the worst...

[Guest Richy]

It's been going on for decades, GWB just put a name to it.

 

"you really think we would have put over 300,000 troops into those regions and spent 1 trillion dollars without 9/11 ? I definitely can't see that happening"

 

Yes. It would've, and ultimately had to happen.

[awepittance]

 

It's nice to indulge the mind in conspiracy theories once in a while, but if you really think about it, it just doesnt make sense.

 

making blanket statements like this don't help the discussion. there are plenty of real and proven conspiracies through out history, but if you are using the term 'conspiracy theory' in the pejorative sense it makes it a little harder to have a discussion with you.

[Dale]

As far as the social placement of it, outside of the importance of Governments knowing that they can't pull this off anymore without triggering suspicion from the public, there really is not much that can be done. I feel that it is the 'Kennedy Assassination' all over again - and what do we learn from that? We learn that Government power is what it is [they control information] - it doesn't matter how many people come forward (whistle blowers), there's not enough of them to combat the media that can overshadow them. So it comes down to the question: Do you want to put your energy into this? into the 9/11 Truth Movement? and is this going to give you any type of reward in a socially progressive way outside of the general awareness of war pretexts that are used to bring war into publicly supported positions?

 

So, the bridge that I find with the 9/11 Truth Movement is to say "listen, there's a reason for wars. There's a reason for the existence of these wars, for resource grabs, geopolitical realignment - the central root, the real question, is how do we get the world to stop fighting, and initiating these war pretexts to start with?" If the world shared resources, there would be no reason for the black operation of 9/11 -- there would be no reason for the need of heavy armament and geopolitical alignment of the Middle East in favour of the West, to protect the energy resources for their own benefit.

 

We have to find the root causes, and go after these root causes.

[awepittance]

wow , just saw this.... one of the most precient news articles ever written by Hunster S thompson the day fter 9/11

 

By Hunter S. Thompson

Page 2 columnist

 

It was just after dawn in Woody Creek, Colo., when the first plane hit the World Trade Center in New York City on Tuesday morning, and as usual I was writing about sports. But not for long. Football suddenly seemed irrelevant, compared to the scenes of destruction and utter devastation coming out of New York on TV.

 

 

Even ESPN was broadcasting war news. It was the worst disaster in the history of the United States, including Pearl Harbor, the San Francisco earthquake and probably the Battle of Antietam in 1862, when 23,000 were slaughtered in one day.

The Battle of the World Trade Center lasted about 99 minutes and cost 20,000 lives in two hours (according to unofficial estimates as of midnight Tuesday). The final numbers, including those from the supposedly impregnable Pentagon, across the Potomac River from Washington, likely will be higher. Anything that kills 300 trained firefighters in two hours is a world-class disaster.

And it was not even Bombs that caused this massive damage. No nuclear missiles were launched from any foreign soil, no enemy bombers flew over New York and Washington to rain death on innocent Americans. No. It was four commercial jetliners.

They were the first flights of the day from American and United Airlines, piloted by skilled and loyal U.S. citizens, and there was nothing suspicious about them when they took off from Newark, N.J., and Dulles in D.C. and Logan in Boston on routine cross-country flights to the West Coast with fully-loaded fuel tanks -- which would soon explode on impact and utterly destroy the world-famous Twin Towers of downtown Manhattan's World Trade Center. Boom! Boom! Just like that.

The towers are gone now, reduced to bloody rubble, along with all hopes for Peace in Our Time, in the United States or any other country. Make no mistake about it: We are At War now -- with somebody -- and we will stay At War with that mysterious Enemy for the rest of our lives.

It will be a Religious War, a sort of Christian Jihad, fueled by religious hatred and led by merciless fanatics on both sides. It will be guerilla warfare on a global scale, with no front lines and no identifiable enemy. Osama bin Laden may be a primitive "figurehead" -- or even dead, for all we know -- but whoever put those All-American jet planes loaded with All-American fuel into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon did it with chilling precision and accuracy. The second one was a dead-on bullseye. Straight into the middle of the skyscraper.

Nothing -- even George Bush's $350 billion "Star Wars" missile defense system -- could have prevented Tuesday's attack, and it cost next to nothing to pull off. Fewer than 20 unarmed Suicide soldiers from some apparently primitive country somewhere on the other side of the world took out the World Trade Center and half the Pentagon with three quick and costless strikes on one day. The efficiency of it was terrifying.

We are going to punish somebody for this attack, but just who or what will be blown to smithereens for it is hard to say. Maybe Afghanistan, maybe Pakistan or Iraq, or possibly all three at once. Who knows? Not even the Generals in what remains of the Pentagon or the New York papers calling for WAR seem to know who did it or where to look for them.

This is going to be a very expensive war, and Victory is not guaranteed -- for anyone, and certainly not for anyone as baffled as George W. Bush. All he knows is that his father started the war a long time ago, and that he, the goofy child-President, has been chosen by Fate and the global Oil industry to finish it Now. He will declare a National Security Emergency and clamp down Hard on Everybody, no matter where they live or why. If the guilty won't hold up their hands and confess, he and the Generals will ferret them out by force.

Good luck. He is in for a profoundly difficult job -- armed as he is with no credible Military Intelligence, no witnesses and only the ghost of Bin Laden to blame for the tragedy.

OK. It is 24 hours later now, and we are not getting much information about the Five Ws of this thing.

The numbers out of the Pentagon are baffling, as if Military Censorship has already been imposed on the media. It is ominous. The only news on TV comes from weeping victims and ignorant speculators.

The lid is on. Loose Lips Sink Ships. Don't say anything that might give aid to The Enemy.

Dr. Hunter S. Thompson's books include Hell's Angels, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72, The Proud Highway, Better Than Sex and The Rum Diary. His new book, Fear and Loathing in America, has just been released. A regular contributor to various national and international publications, Thompson now lives in a fortified compound near Aspen, Colo. His column, "Hey, Rube," appears each Monday on Page 2.

[Guest Scrambled Ears]

ya...thompson's been around the block...pretty much nailed it in one shot

[Guest happycase]

I had a father who got hot pants over a girl and she was my mother.

[Redruth]

with alittle intelligence (not entirely necessary) and a couple of billion dollars anyone can start ones own diabolical conspiracy

[Guest Helper ET]

do you even know what youre arguing against?

[Redruth]

yes.

 

sometimes i fuck about, but most times i represent exactly what i stand for.

i think your well aware of what that is. after all you have read of me through the past year do you still question my resolve?

[luke viia]

ET, it's noble of you to defend your position and "make the last post" no matter what. So here is my request. You seem very certain of your position, and clearly feel that you have done your research.

 

Write a condensed version of the information that would take months for us to read. Clearly state what you know and what you don't know. After nine years, I am fairly certain that everyone here has done at least a little research on the subject. I know I have. I am not convinced by the conspiracy theory, and especially not by any talk of an Illuminati - but I would like to see you go on the offense here and provide us with some irrefutable data.

 

 

Thank you.

[MAXIMUS MISCHIEF]