Reading list recommendations for Eugene on the corruption of politics

[awepittance]

i guess i don't see the internet much different from real life in certain circumstances. It would be as if Euguene, Smettingham, Chegod and a few others like Kcinsu, etc were hanging out and Eugene all of the sudden jumped into the conversation and said 'hey guys , i am genuinely curious about the corruption of money in politics, but im not interested in hearing from you guys over there because you are bat-shit (in a whispering voice)' To me it just seems like the complete opposite way to have a good debate with someone. and at the outset acting as if nothing Kcinsu or the person who started the thread have anything valuable to contribute. It's insulting, and hard to see it as anything but a sophisticated from of trolling.

[SR4]

fair enough.

[kcinsu]

I missed my involvement there... had to go back and find it.

 

So I make one off the cuff remark, and I'm totally discredited Eugene?

[eugene]

azatoth - ignores troll-bait, has no problem skipping the parts he's not interested in, addresses the original topic, consequently receives replies.

awepittance -

 

you gotta l2internet, bro.

[eugene]

I missed my involvement there... had to go back and find it.

 

So I make one off the cuff remark, and I'm totally discredited Eugene?

it's not just this thread, more like overall impression. no one in that silly list is completely discredited anyway, you're as credible as your argument, if you have something serious on the (new) topic to offer - go ahead.

[kcinsu]

overall impression? I make about one post every 2 months, and that's usually in EKT.

 

Nice to know I leave a lasting memory though...

[Guest A/D]

thank you guys for all links & relevant info. I disagree with Paul on many points, but I feel a little like I feel about Obama - say what you will, the man is a great orator, and that alone is refreshing to have in office. Whatever Paul's views, he is obviously a thoughtful guy with a great amount of integrity, and for that I would love to see him elected.

 

hey all try not to clutter this up with interpersonal garbage, this is a great thread

[SR4]

eugene, stop being a dick.

[goDel]

Perhaps this thread is going to derail back on it's original track in the distant future? Or some track?

 

On the Paul topic:

- my prediction if he would become president (which i doubt) is that the effect would be he would reign as a captain on a ship without a steering wheel. Which is not that much different as what is happening to Obama now. And it hasn't got anything to do with experience, competence or ideas either. It's more about trust. The polarization, distrust and corporate money are rooted deeply in current politics. And the effect is that the political machine will be working against any president. Whether it will be Paul, Obama or whoever else is mad enough to run for the worst job on the planet.

In 2008 I had hope that someone would be able to unite the polarized climate. I think we can all agree Obama naively tried and failed. In 2012 we may need an extremely polarizing president to make Congress look like a bunch of peace loving hippies. Maybe that would help. I expect it's going to be more of the same either way.

 

On Eugene's reading list:

- make it goDel's & Eugene's kids gloves reading list. Just ordered Lessig's "Republic Lost" and Suskind's "Confidence Men". Thanks for the tips.

 

On dicks:

everybody is a dick in this thread. Mines huge, btw. Except for A/D. He's like a tiny shining light in a black pot of frustration. Sounds gay. And maybe it is.

 

*soft boner*

[vamos scorcho]

I get the feeling that Obama is probably 10 times more intelligent than Paul. If Paul were to be elected to office, it would in fact be the same outcome as we've seen with Obama, except now likely with the Republicans controlling the almighty Congress and without the brains of Obama to at least keep the status quo. The difference between D's and R's is that D's keep doing the same terrible shit while R's tend to push the terrible shit up to the next level as a way of reseting the status quo for the D's to maintain until everyone is used to it??

[vamos scorcho]

Seriously, I enjoy the things Paul is saying. They are essentially the same things Obama was saying in 2008, with a little bit of added insanity. It's really hard for me to think clearly on this issue. I watch Paul speak about the wars and I start to feel riled up and emotional. So I come away thinking, "Yeah! Thsi guy... how could I argue against this? I'll tell my friends!"

 

And then I start to think back on 08 Hope and Change and really see no reason to feel anything.

 

One could argue that Paul is different, he has been consistently voting the same way since 1945 or whatever. Then you remember that he's homophobic and super-Christian ... and you start to question his intelligence. Because if there is one thing I'm rather sure of with Obama... it is that he's a very intelligent person. Maybe I'm wrong. That intelligence, when you get into the driver seat... is very important. I hope this adds something to the discussion.

 

 

For beginners books... IDK. I would look into philosophy and start to consider power relations, and try to see how the government actually functions. I don't think it's a stretch to say that nobody here or anywhere within miles of anybody posting in this thread could honestly claim to know exactly how things work in the top reaches of government, and overall within the society. I personally feel that this is the most important aspect of learning about politics and social order. It is to consider for a moment that most people are quite clueless with regards to the 'right way' of doing things, and especially as to what is actually being done. One has to take into account all aspects of society and civilization, money practices, sanitation, media, law.

[chenGOD]

If you want to learn about how the world actually works, don't read philosophy. Read books about International Political Economy, Sociology, History, Economics, and Law.

[Guest iep]

[chenGOD]

If you want to learn about how the world actually works

luls

 

You're right - imprecise wording.

If you want to read about how America actually works (and to a large degree much of the global North), then you should be reading in the areas I listed.

[SR4]

philosophy is an augment to the above-mentioned areas to research. everything is connected.

[chenGOD]

There is little philosophy that is worthwhile reading for understanding how these systems actually work is what I'm saying. They're great at discussing ideas in the abstract, but not so much in the concrete. I guess if you were to read any philosophy, I would say the Chinese legalists, Confucius, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes.

Edit: I'm not saying that philosophy in and of itself is useless, but to the extent that it's applicable in the real world, I think the other areas are a much better way to invest your time. Some good ethnographies or anthropological readers would also be of great value.

[essines]

i guess i don't see the internet much different from real life in certain circumstances. It would be as if Euguene, Smettingham, Chegod and a few others like Kcinsu, etc were hanging out and Eugene all of the sudden jumped into the conversation and said 'hey guys , i am genuinely curious about the corruption of money in politics, but im not interested in hearing from you guys over there because you are bat-shit (in a whispering voice)' To me it just seems like the complete opposite way to have a good debate with someone. and at the outset acting as if nothing Kcinsu or the person who started the thread have anything valuable to contribute. It's insulting, and hard to see it as anything but a sophisticated from of trolling.

 

eugene, stop being a dick.

[goDel]

Meanwhile, in Plato's cave...

[Guest A/D]

haha thanks dude. let's paint, make blended drinks & exercise our soft boners together.

 

I have to retract my statement from before. I don't think I can vote for him. My presidential penis has flipped inside like a sock.