chenGOD Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 5 hours ago, auxien said: i do understand it. the span of humanity's existence extends far beyond the current generation alive and the next one or two. i'm thinking about the hundreds of generations past the next one or two generations. how many humans do you think there'll be in ~100 generations if we keep breeding and expanding like we have been the last couple hundred years? do the math and you'll see how fucking ridiculous these ideas are, the planet can't handle how we are acting now and it couldn't do it at two, three, or ten times the population. 'demographic decline in country X Y or Z' is absolutely guaranteed, inevitable, & a good thing over the long term. i'm not sure we can fix out behaviors...i've seen little large-scale evidence of this happening. nearly all evidence tends towards quite the opposite. the 'literally no one left' line it total bullshit and you know it. humanity has extended itself into absolutely every crevice of this planet & fucked other species out of existence (literally and figuratively). we will keep breeding & spreading as long we can, and we should: i'm not anti-humanity, i'm anti-8,000,000,000 humans. we're the most advanced creature that's ever existed in the entirety of the universe, as far as we know, we ain't gonna disappear because a few of us say 'yeah, that's too much' and take it easy. the stagnated/lightly shrinking Japanese population is not a bad thing, despite what capitalist propaganda tells you. Japan's economy is just starting to do better here lately, they're finally seeing some gains, and not because of an increasing population: their economists have simply learned that what they were doing wasn't working so they needed to adjust tactics. humans are infinitely adaptable, capitalism still wins, be happy i guess? US is not heading that way necessarily, immigration is easily going to offset any declining birth rates if sheer population is the concern (and Americans allow it). for fuck's sake, i just looked at Wikipedia, there's been an added 100 million goddamned people in America just in the last 40 years? that's a fucking huge increase in percentage & numbers. all your points are empty, dude. First: literally living in Japan and the impact on their population is ridiculous. You blame capitalism and then talk about their economy doing better, when the yen is at an almost historical low? Pick one side bro. The cities except for Tokyo are massively struggling, and the countryside is like Detroit style despair, except there are no young people to do anything in those places. It’s sad looking at all the empty housing and knowing that nothing and no one is going to resuscitate that. Their population is not “lightly shrinking”, by 2100 its expected to be at 75 million, and that’s even taking expanded immigration into account. Capitalism hasn’t won shit. China is on the same path, and they’re capitalist as fuck Second, yeah America’a population is growing because of immigration. When those immigrants start reducing their birth rate, what do you think is going to happen? America does not have a sustainable birth replacement rate. I’m not talking about Jim-bob having 6 kids man, I’m talking about families having 2. It ain’t happening. Most population growth happens in developing nations where they have little or no regulations over pollution. Even then, earths population is actually in decline. This is not about missing some grandparents, this is about young people not having families. When young people are devoting their time, energy, and money to taking care of their elders, they have little left to devote to innovation or progress. Governments are much the same, except it’s even worse because money that should be going to progressing a cleaner economy is increasingly going to care for elder people. We need to rapidly increase nuclear as a source of power generation, impose significant controls on corporations’ methods of energy production, and ensure that young people have both the resources and facilities to have families while taking care of their older relatives. To pretend otherwise is the height of naïveté. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 17 minutes ago, chim said: productivity is harmed, tax flow is in danger, who cares? Are you actually serious? You want to build good public transportation in your city, but you can’t because hey guess what, there’s not enough tax revenue, and there aren’t enough young people to build it. You want to develop a clean national electricity grid in your city/state/country, but you can’t because there aren’t enough young people working to create tax revenue and all the money the relevant level government is brining in is being spent to ensure the elderly have a good quality of life. 21 minutes ago, chim said: The falsehood of the claim that the world will end due to a shrinking population (which does not equal a birth rate of 0) is easily proven by the fact that the world didn't end in the 50's, or fifty years before that, etc... in those time periods the world’s population was growing, and so was the tax revenue that allowed governments to actually take care of their citizens/residents. Like I get the US government has given up on its citizens, it just because you live in a shithole doesn’t mean the rest of the world needs to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 24 minutes ago, Nebraska said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 there's so many parts to this toxic shit we're doing to earth... along w/climate change 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdctvsm Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 @kayleighlehrman9566 1 month ago You know its bad when "the most nuked place on Earth" is only the second worst environmental disaster in the country's past fifty years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) just close las vegas already. pfas. toxifying everything is cool edit: neat. Edited July 13 by ignatius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Ostanek Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 6/26/2024 at 7:10 AM, chenGOD said: South Korea’s is even worse and faster. Canada is heading that way. So is the US. At this point, you could argue the choice is either to have a shitty, lonely, possibly impoverished old age, or to have your kids and grandkids boil alive in their own sweat in 60degC megaheatwaves. I'm well aware of the issues surrounding the demographic crisis but to me, a miserable but peaceful decline today is still quite preferable to boosting the population now only to have the same thing happen down the line as a result of millions dying in agony from heatwaves every year forever. (Not that the two are mutually exclusive, indeed we're in for some amount of the latter regardless) To be fair it's also worth pointing out that capitalism is inherently unstable and its dependency on an evergrowing population base is just another manifestation of that*, but maybe that's tad too marxist for this crowd? *albeit one that could potentially be sidestepped through automation? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) 7 hours ago, Walter Ostanek said: At this point, you could argue the choice is either to have a shitty, lonely, possibly impoverished old age, or to have your kids and grandkids boil alive in their own sweat in 60degC megaheatwaves. I'm well aware of the issues surrounding the demographic crisis but to me, a miserable but peaceful decline today is still quite preferable to boosting the population now only to have the same thing happen down the line as a result of millions dying in agony from heatwaves every year forever. (Not that the two are mutually exclusive, indeed we're in for some amount of the latter regardless) To be fair it's also worth pointing out that capitalism is inherently unstable and its dependency on an evergrowing population base is just another manifestation of that*, but maybe that's tad too marxist for this crowd? *albeit one that could potentially be sidestepped through automation? ^^^ only a gay sex pile can solve this problem. Edited July 14 by ignatius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenGOD Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 19 hours ago, Walter Ostanek said: At this point, you could argue the choice is either to have a shitty, lonely, possibly impoverished old age, or to have your kids and grandkids boil alive in their own sweat in 60degC megaheatwaves. I'm well aware of the issues surrounding the demographic crisis but to me, a miserable but peaceful decline today is still quite preferable to boosting the population now only to have the same thing happen down the line as a result of millions dying in agony from heatwaves every year forever. (Not that the two are mutually exclusive, indeed we're in for some amount of the latter regardless) It's not boosting the population, it's ensuring the replacement rate remains the same. It won't be a miserable but peaceful decline, especially not for the young people who have to put all their time and energy into caring for elder people. We need to stop the use of fossil fuels now (we can do this with nuclear and renewable energy sources) as the first step, that transition needs to be immediate (relatively speaking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 flooding is crazy right now in china. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdctvsm Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 repost... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 so, ya know all the minerals on the sea floor the mining companies want to scoop up? turns out all those rocks are a sort of geo battery. they naturally produced electricity and cause electrolysis which produces oxygen. lols. the mining company funded the research and aren't very happy. all that oxygen being produced creates O2 which makes sea life down there possible. oxygen being produced in the dark on the ocean floor w/o photosynthesis is pretty cool. what this may mean is that these rocks (nodules of minerals that take like a million years to be produced) shouldn't be mined because it'll fuck up something essential to life in the ocean.. this likely means that all those minerals cannot be mined to be used for batteries for electric cars etc. so crazy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxien Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, ignatius said: so, ya know all the minerals on the sea floor the mining companies want to scoop up? turns out all those rocks are a sort of geo battery. they naturally produced electricity and cause electrolysis which produces oxygen. lols. the mining company funded the research and aren't very happy. all that oxygen being produced creates O2 which makes sea life down there possible. oxygen being produced in the dark on the ocean floor w/o photosynthesis is pretty cool. what this may mean is that these rocks (nodules of minerals that take like a million years to be produced) shouldn't be mined because it'll fuck up something essential to life in the ocean.. this likely means that all those minerals cannot be mined to be used for batteries for electric cars etc. so crazy. how long before Paltrow gets a few and sells them as a natural way to aerate the snatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Ostanek Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 On 7/14/2024 at 11:13 AM, chenGOD said: It won't be a miserable but peaceful decline, especially not for the young people who have to put all their time and energy into caring for elder people. What's worse? A billion people spending their entire lives caring for the elderly before boiling to death? Or two billion people doing other stuff and then boiling to death? Not meaning to die on this silly hill or anything, I just find the terror that population decline seems to cause in some people rather silly, given what else is in store for us. On 7/25/2024 at 4:07 PM, ignatius said: so, ya know all the minerals on the sea floor the mining companies want to scoop up? turns out all those rocks are a sort of geo battery. they naturally produced electricity and cause electrolysis which produces oxygen. lols. the mining company funded the research and aren't very happy. all that oxygen being produced creates O2 which makes sea life down there possible. oxygen being produced in the dark on the ocean floor w/o photosynthesis is pretty cool. what this may mean is that these rocks (nodules of minerals that take like a million years to be produced) shouldn't be mined because it'll fuck up something essential to life in the ocean.. this likely means that all those minerals cannot be mined to be used for batteries for electric cars etc. so crazy. The seafloor mining was always marketing gobshite, pumped by a handful of tech bro companies - the mining industry at large doesn't give a toss. I don't necessarily see the removal of nodules as being inherently bad though, depending on how fast new ones begin to precipitate and what rate they pump out O2. Nevertheless, the fact that there's an abiogenic source of O2 on the seafloor is bloody fascinating, and could have massive ramifications for our understanding of climate change over geologic time. How much of today's atmospheric oxygen could have been created this way? And how might the rate have varied over time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) On 8/1/2024 at 10:13 AM, Walter Ostanek said: The seafloor mining was always marketing gobshite, pumped by a handful of tech bro companies - the mining industry at large doesn't give a toss. that's not quite accurate. there's an old ass big as fuck canadian mining company that wants all in on deep sea floor mining. also, different countries (china) are up for it as well.. but the canadian company is one of the largest mining companies around.. not at all a bunch of tech bros. edit: the nodules take millions of years to form so removing them is kinda a one time deal. edit edit: more in depth reporting on fires and heat and stuff. also - DOOM Edited August 3 by ignatius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 “If the American people elect a conservative president, his administration will have to eradicate climate change references from absolutely everywhere” - Bethany Kozma: former deputy chief of staff at the U.S. Agency for International Development in the Trump administration full video 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) wide encompassing discussion about all the things around economics, capitalism history, collapse and previous collapses etc.. edit: lols.. americuh dumb Edited August 14 by ignatius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 (edited) haven't watched a ted talk in quite a while but have heard this guy on some podcasts and he's quite concise is spelling out the big picture... as it stands right now edit: Edited August 19 by ignatius 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignatius Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 ugh. the poor fucking lemmings. .. and everything else.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdctvsm Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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