How 'Rational Atheists' spread anti Islam pro US military propaganda

[LimpyLoo]

 

hope somebody in here who is still terrified of muslims and thinks they pose an enormous threat checks out that video above

I'm pretty sure there's no-one on here that's actually terrified of Muslims and think they pose an enormous threat (aside from delet maybe). It's perfectly reasonable however to be terrified of certain specific Muslims (and certain specific Muslim ideologies), and realise that they do post a threat (which at this point is mostly a threat to other Muslims).

JE thinks that secretly, this is all about dark-skinned people

That when you criticize Islam, it's really just code for "let's subjugate dark-skinned people"

And that somewhere lurking below our anti-theist facade

Is this hidden racism

And he can see through our bullshit

That it's all just well-disguised racism

 

 

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[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

This thread is literally about Sam Harris

[LimpyLoo]

Sam Harris went on JRE and called her out on some bullshit and ever since then JE has mentioned in him in 80% of his posts.

I'm sure it's 100% a total coincidence

 

 

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[awepittance]

hey guys 80% of my posts in here have been about sam harris because I have a grudge against him not because I think he spreads extremely dangerous propaganda to otherwise smart well meaning politically intelligent people

edit: autipilot, more than a bit of horseshit on your part : Sam Harris appeared on JRE #641 april 2015, this thread was created april 2013.

[awepittance]

 

 

hope somebody in here who is still terrified of muslims and thinks they pose an enormous threat checks out that video above

I'm pretty sure there's no-one on here that's actually terrified of Muslims and think they pose an enormous threat (aside from delet maybe). It's perfectly reasonable however to be terrified of certain specific Muslims (and certain specific Muslim ideologies), and realise that they do post a threat (which at this point is mostly a threat to other Muslims).

JE thinks that secretly, this is all about dark-skinned people

That when you criticize Islam, it's really just code for "let's subjugate dark-skinned people"

And that somewhere lurking below our anti-theist facade

Is this hidden racism

And he can see through our bullshit

That it's all just well-disguised racism

 

 

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I think atheists who *focus* on islam and talk about it constantly are at heart racist yes, but a lot of rational atheists are actually smart people who don't spend 80% of their time talking about the dangers of Islam. I also think most people are probably racist or bigoted to some degree, but the problem comes in is when quasi intellectualism is used to justify it, which is exactly what Sam Harris does.

 

hoping some of you actually watch that video, if you can get over the fact that its Greenwald he makes some incredibly good points that I think might change the minds of people who arent totally in the bag for Harris

 

[caze]

Sam Harris went on JRE and called her out on some bullshit and ever since then JE has mentioned in him in 80% of his posts.

 

ha, yeah. was funny when she claimed Harris isn't qualified to talk about geopolitics because he's only a neuroscientist and philosopher (I presume she doesn't think this applies to Noam Chomsky, who's 'only' a linguist), her journalism credentials are totally legit though (being a pawn for Russian state propaganda mostly).

[caze]

hoping some of you actually watch that video, if you can get over the fact that its Greenwald he makes some incredibly good points that I think might change the minds of people who arent totally in the bag for Harris

 

I've read posts by Greenwald on Harris before, they've been your standard intellectually dishonest bullshit attacks he always faces. Unless he's come up with some new arguments since then I'm not going to bother.

[LimpyLoo]

I *know* you think people who criticize Islam are racist

You don't need to even say it

It's so obvious that you read into every comment on Islam

 

And then you pull the classic selective memory "jeez, it's kinda suspicious that you don't criticize Christian this much"

Which is just very clearly not true

And you should see that

(And the fact that you don't see that

bodes poorly for your suitability as a rigorous journalist)

 

Given SH's history with your sister (and with your hero Glenn Greenwald)

I don't think you're capable of agreeing with him

Regardless of what he says or does

If he said "1 + 2 = 3"

You would start combing the Internet for evidence to the contrary

 

 

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[YO303]

Sam Harris went on JRE and called her out on some bullshit

 

I witnessed this

[awepittance]

I *know* you think people who criticize Islam are racist

You don't need to even say it

It's so obvious that you read into every comment on Islam

 

And then you pull the classic selective memory "jeez, it's kinda suspicious that you don't criticize Christian this much"

Which is just very clearly not true

And you should see that

(And the fact that you don't see that

bodes poorly for your suitability as a rigorous journalist)

 

Given SH's history with your sister (and with your hero Glenn Greenwald)

I don't think you're capable of agreeing with him

Regardless of what he says or does

If he said "1 + 2 = 3"

You would start combing the Internet for evidence to the contrary

 

 

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went from a straw man logical fallacy to an ad hominem in one poem. Trust me i'm not trying to convince some of the most vocal and repeative-shitp posting people in this thread. I'll continue to post the video after every new page in the hopes that people other than Caze, Limpy, Eugene are actually not convinced by the idea that 'Islam poses the greatest threat' and actually might have a problem with that idea being spread around not just in this forum but in the world of liberalism. (excellent video debunking/obliterating Sam Harris now featured on front page/first post in thread )

[awepittance]

a good takeaway from the video is that people need to remember that Sam Harris has views about the use of US military that are egregious to most liberals in the united states. He has supported torture among other deeply disturbing positions that I'm sure a lot of smart non blood thirsty fearful atheists in this country would be horrified of. He is not necessarily equal to other liberals in the sense that the only thing he diverges on is his intense focus on the dangers of Islam, anybody who thinks he shares their world view or values might be sorely mistaken when they start reading his other views.

[caze]

Harris does not support torture.

[LimpyLoo]

JE

The simple fact that you set out to find evidence of SH's racism

(Instead of looking at the evidence and THEN deciding whether he's racist)

Shows that you have an emotional agenda

 

Which is fine

He did sorta insult your sister

(Although then defended her on Twitter)

But I hope you see that that's not the disposition of a rigorous, unbiased journalist

 

 

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a good takeaway from the video is that people need to remember that Sam Harris has views about the use of US military that are egregious to most liberals in the united states. He has supported torture among other deeply disturbing positions that I'm sure a lot of smart non blood thirsty fearful atheists in this country would be horrified of. He is not necessarily equal to other liberals in the sense that the only thing he diverges on is his intense focus on the dangers of Islam, anybody who thinks he shares their world view or values might be sorely mistaken when they start reading his other views.

Okay let's test your knowledge of SH's position on torture:

 

Does he think it should be legal or illegal?

 

(Should be easy, since he's so clearly 'pro-torture')

 

 

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[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

Harris does not support torture.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/in-defense-of-torture_b_8993.html

 

?

[LimpyLoo]

Yeah, read it though

 

 

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[eugene]

flol, i thought id find some vague statement within the article that could be possibly be interpreted as support of some limited torture in some contexts and situations before clicking that link. but fucking huge title "IN DEFENCE OF TORTURE" got a real lol out of me.

not that theres actually anything wrong with torture though.

[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

Yeah, read it though

 

Is there an M. Night Shyamalan twist at the end?

[LimpyLoo]

The piece was in reaction to the the sentiment of 'no torture, ever, for any reason, regardless of the weighing of possibilities that are vastly worse than torture'

 

 

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[caze]

yeah, it's a pretty standard utilitarian examination of torture, compared to the morality of allowing various other things to happen in the absence/presence of torture.

 

most utilitarian stuff makes use of these kinds of devils advocate arguments, but at the end of the day usually end with, '...thing X is actually more moral than thing Y, but we still probably shouldn't do thing X'.

[LimpyLoo]

I've still yet to get a straight answer out of this forum on all the moral dilemmas I posed

 

The "anti-torture" folks apparently think we should never ever torture anyone

Even if that means the earth gets destroyed

Or some child snuff producers retain their freedom

Or Times Square gets blown to bits

Or whatever

 

The fact that people won't even admit that such moral dilemmas are possible

(Or are even dilemmas to start with)

Is frankly depressing

 

P.S. Refreshing to see Eugene and JE on the same side for once

What's that Tolstoy quote...

"Nothing unites people like a common hatred of something"?

 

 

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<3

 

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Get your knickers off

I'll be in in a sec

 

 

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[Guest Atom Dowry Firth]

<3

 

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[LimpyLoo]

Okay, here's my impression of the "anti-torture" logic

 

Q: would you rather torture someone or kill them?

A: I'd rather kill them, because torture is wrong

 

 

 

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[awepittance]

[LimpyLoo]

Greenwald and TYT

My two favorite things in the world

 

(How long is it? If it's long I'll have to watch it later)

 

 

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[awepittance]

Okay, here's my impression of the "anti-torture" logic

 

Q: would you rather torture someone or kill someone?

A: I'd rather kill them, because torture is wrong

 

 

 

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ps: video above wasn't for you, it's mostly for the people lurking in the thread who aren't already in the bag for Harris. By all means tho watch it on your ipad if you got the time